My wife and I are comtemplating building an expensive retirement home($700-800k) in the Florida Panhandle about 2 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. Our builder, a good guy with a good rep, says that we should think about vinyl casement windows for both maintenance free longevity and lower cost. I’m having a hard time thinking of vinyl windows as a quality product in an expensive home but am looking for some cost-savings and low maintence. What do the pros think? I’m guessing there are several levels of quality even within the vinyl or vinyl clad types of windows.
Big Greg
Replies
I have seen some decent looking vinyls but if he wants to sell you on them, he needs to do the convincing and show you a sample or direct you to a showroom or other house where he has used them, IMO.
They still don't look to mew like high end windows.
Andersen, Marvin, Kolbe, and others do wood clad windows andx have pretty well worked out the problems that were once expeced with exposure to salt water. The claddings takew care of the exterior maintainance issues and give you good wood to look at inside. On a house that size, you could be looking at a diff around twenty grand on windows, depending on how many, what size, and which units you are comparing.
Another thought too, is that I imagine you might be having a largish window wall for views, if I assume you aren't parking this mini-mansion in the poor side of town. That large expanse of window might have a hard time meeting wind loads in that hurricane zone if it isn't wood or metal framed.
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Kudos to you. I also have a tough time relating vinyl to a more expensive home. That said, however, there are reasonable alternatives, which do include vinyl. You need (I assume) maintenance free exterior, and that is vinyls prime attraction.
As Piffin suggested, there are good clad windows that have vinyl exterior and wood interior. In fact, just yesterday, I received a brochure from Anderson on their Woodwright double hungs that look great on the interior, and they have vinyl exteriors.
I haven't installed any of them, but they would be worth a look.
Don't get railroaded into something you don't like to look at, cause you'll be seeing those windows from now until...?
I have mixed feelings about Vinyl windows, but they can be made to look good when thoughtfully trimmed out....but the material and labor to do so, while not horrible, can drive the cost up some.
While I don't profess to be a window expert, one of my annoyances with vinyl casements (at least the ones I've installed....Insulate, by Certainteed, mostly) is their tendency to sag slightly when left open on a warm day. The problem is resolved by lifting up the window as you close it. Once latched, it will return to normal....but what a PITA!
And I'm speaking of Southern Oregon Coast...very moderate climate....rarely hits 100 degrees or more, but I've seen the sagging on 60 degree days with direct sun.
So, in the climates you're speaking to, I'd think vinyl window frames, at least the ones I'm familiar with, could be annoying.
But someone here may know of a vinyl window with a stiffer frame (of good quality of course) that may make my compaint moot. I, too, would like to know of such a window.
Last Summer, I installed some aluminum windows and sliders in a neighbor's home. I don't recall the brand....the owners had already purchased them....but they were of good quality and the casements were smooth and had quality mechanisms. The aluminum was coated....may have been paint, but was tough, like a good powdercoat.
The owners claimed the windows to be mid-priced between vinyl and Marvin/Anderson flexframes.
I'll try to locate the Aluminum maker and pass it on to you (no promises).
Greg,
Is this a CBS or stick framed house?
Clampman
With that climate, I'd opt for a clad window (no vinyl) from one of the better manufacturers.
Better looking, better long-term performance, less maintenance, more stable, increased durability in your climate, and if ever required, you can paint it to change the color.
Take $500,000 and buy a boat.
Use the rest for house.
The vinyl windows will look fine in the cheaper house.
Go fishing.
Joe H
You might want to take a look at Traco's Power 2 window. It's a low profile aluminum clad vinyl you can order with a simulated wood grain interior that is pretty convincing from a few feet away. The aluminum cladding can also be ordered in any color you want.
They are not exactly wood and they are not exactly cheap but they definitely do not look low end. Order them with "heat mirror" triple glazing and the comfort, noise reduction and energy savings will be virtually unbeatable.
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Thanks Kevin....great suggestion...Greg
The annual "Street of Dreams" show put on by the local builders' association here in Portland, OR have homes in this price range, and a little higher. They almost exclusively use vinyl windows, so it's not unprecedented.
OTOH, I get the feeling that the primary purpose of the SoD houses is to showcase type of materials that the builders use in their mass-market homes, in order to impress on their customers that they're getting a "quality" home when they buy, say, a $220K tract house. I think this explains some of the other material choices in these SoD houses as well, as well as the fact that they're built on postage-stamp-sized lots.
Personally, I think alot of these windows look awful, and ridiculous, on an expensive house. For instance, you'll see tall, soaring windows in a two-story foyer, that are intended to be impressive. But they use those cheezy-looking strips of white vinyl to simulate divided lights. To me, they look cheap and tacky.
Used appropriately, though, quality vinyls can work. Functionally, quality units work great. I have a few in my place, in utility rooms and a basement bathroom. 'used Marvins in the "showcase" locations, though.
Edited 2/25/2004 6:34:29 PM ET by BarryO
Read a report that the California fire fighters witnessed vinyl windows melting and falling out with the heat of near-by flames... Vinyl windows are the norm here in So Cal on high end homes. Homes built near open spaces (brush) limit eves overhang, use stucco and and typically have concrete tile roofing materials. The weak link might be the windows...
We will have to see if regulations change as they study the impact from the last fire season.