Just got my new “Position Contract”
and in 2-3 weeks my 90 day review will happen.
I need some input from all the experts here as to how to get what I deserve.
Job Title: Lead Carpenter/Project Coordinator
“highlights” of my Position contract:
Preconstuction conferences w/ sales + prod. dir. + client
Jobsite paper work: plans, specs, Change orders, daily time sheets, etc.
Working knowledge of products materials and processes.
client relations, daily progress reports to Project Dir.
Order and check materials
coordinate workers and sub contractors
Perform all carpentry with help as needed.
daily cleanup.
Safety
Organize and plan jobs 2 days ahead so production schedules are met 90% of the time.
ensure profit by meeting or exceeding job costing deadlines and budgets to a 2-3% accuracy while meeting client expectations.
meet w/ clients an management at least once a week and complete a progress/satisfaction report.
I definately feel capable of performing this role.
I just have some resevations about how much time will be taken away from production.
on a big job with 2 or 3 helpers this isn’t as much of a problem, but we tend to do alot of smaller jobs and spread the guys out, so when I’m diong all the oragnizational/manager stuff no carpentry will be getting done.
I figure that this job is a combination of a carpenter and a production supevisor.
the regional avg. for these 2 jobs is $16.50 and $20.00 respectively.
since I am a well above average carpenter and we are a well above avg. remodeling company, I am setting my sights at 20$/hr.
I really don’t want to work for less than this.
So how do I argue my case?
what kind of stuff should I say that will get me what I want?
I’m not real good at the hard ball stuff, but I’m getting to old to work for peanuts.
I feel that if he can’t /won’t pay me what I’m asking then he shouldn’t expect me to want to work for him.
Should I say this to him?
It’s November so There aint gonna be a whole lot of jobs in the papers.
I hate feeling trapped!
Help me out guys/gals.
thanx!
Mr T
I can’t afford to be affordable anymore
Replies
I think it is tough to make a big case for premium money at 90 days. When in the corporate arena I never failed to get one of the biggest raises as I am pretty good at presenting my case but in business it is truly a what have you done for me lately deal.
I always made some notes as to what I had done in the previous year over and above the normal that they profited by. I was a commercial building maintenance super so I would talk in terms of energy use, staying in budget, prompt work completion, quality level of work etc.
But in order to argue your point you need some type of track record. I am sure you can get a raise with good work at 90 days just maybe not the top level of money. Frankly if that was an important enough issue for you to say I want it or I don't want to work for you it should have been said at the beginning. Generally speaking the only time you can get a major raise, say 2-5 an hour, is when they need you for something big and can't afford to loose you or you marry the bosses daughter. Usually once you have negotiated your initial package then you are just trying to get the top scale raise for the company. In other words if they are used to giving 5% then you might be able to get 6. Just my experience. DanT
T,
Go BIG! Much EZ-er to work from $25.00 down then work up from $20. To bad your not in my labor market, You could find a job that pays mid 50s no problem!
Best of luck! Hope you get MORE then you need!
Is the job market really that bad there? We wouldn't pay a Lead Carpenter less than $25/hour, and we're cheap. One of my Leads (we have a Lead on each of 4 crews) makes in the 70s.
Best of luck, and I agree that it's always easier to work downward, although it might be difficult when they want to talk in percentage increases, as I would. This tactic works much better when you first apply for the job. I also agree that when I evaluate workers, I am most interested in how they are making or saving me money, so try to prove your value.
I agree. I think you're selling yourself short.
But I would think an approaching the boss like this would be well received:
"Boss, I can do all of the stuff on this list. What else do I have to do in order to get $25 plus the regular bennies?"
I don't know what wages are in your neck of the woods. I have this perception of this place as the cheapest of the cheap, and for what you describe, that $20 is fair to middlin', IF the health care and other bennies are in the pot.
Which brings me to my thought. Perks. There are a lot of ways to get compensated for your skills that don't involve cash transfer. And some creative ones that do. Insurance plans, "allowances" - hey, that's pretty reasonable - you're required to be the manager, showman, leader, you ought to be able to have an allowance for trivialities that you deem important to the situation at hand. They could pick up clothing. From the business perspective, write offs are an easier swallow than paychecks.
Another thought - if you think you're worth more than you're getting offered, and willing to prove it, then tie $ to performance. If your feedback surveys from the HO's are great, thats worth something. If your jobs are on time and on budget, that's worth something. If you turn out to be a selling fool, hey, percentage of job.
I muddled around with a company a few years ago just doing periodic sub work, and easy stuff. I never thought it would amount to beans. It didn't pay a lot either, but it was simple, and I could use it as filler. As that company grew, they fed me more. I kept the customers happy. I became worth more. Today, doing their odds and ends burns up a couple of days out of my month. I get a chunk of gross sales. The more I keep people happy, the more that sign up, the more I make. If I stink and it all goes downhill, so do I.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Where are you at Mr.T?
robert-
If you click on MrT's name in his post a window will open in the upper left of your screen where MrT had considerately filled out some information in his profile stating he is in upstate New York.
Where are you from robert? I see you haven't filled out anything in your profile.
You aint gonna be happy until you go it alone. I'm not trying to start anything, just make you realize something. You start these threads monthly it seems. What I'm reading is." I'm to good to work for the company I'm working for." If you don't have the cajons to step out into the cold and take what life throws at ya then stop him hawing about what your job is and how much you want to make. Tell them what your worth. You should always know what your worth, never guess what your worth. I've never worried about how much money I'm going to make or how big my raise is going to be. I start out at what I'm worth then let it roll from there.
Who Dares Wins.
MrT, The most important thing to know about negotiations is that there is two positions, one wants to settle badly, and the other doesn't care.
If you are the one to care, you lose.
You have to be willing to walk, and mean it. You can't fake it....you have to know you will be walking. You have to let them know you are worth it. If you don't think you are worth it, don't expect them to convince themselves.
Personally, I hate having weak people work for me. If I'm paying them $20 per hour and they're not peeved and wanting more, I'm disappointed in them. I want aggressive people with me.
blue
Also remember the first rule in any negotiation is (The first person to say a number loses)
It goes like this
"I see an opportunity here for both of us to make decent money. You can capitolize on me and I can capitolize on our involvement together. Although we dont have a partnership we are in effect partners working off each others strengths. If I make money for you I expect you will make money for me.
I believe I should be compensated at the higher end of the scale plus a little something for my diligance and company loyalty."
You've shown commitment to him by your work history. He can show commitment to you with handsome paychecks.
I like it!
Thanks that is what I am looking for.
Intelligent arguments that will show that I understand what I am worth to him.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Last time I decided I was worth more money ...
told the wife that Fri morn I was gonna either get more or walk.
got called into the office right after lunch ... figured great ...
they're ready to tell me about the next project ...
I'm ready to tell them I want more.
That Fri was the day we all got called in to say they were having a mass layoff!
I walked in ... the owner started right in ... we're losing money ... blah blah blah ...
my first words ...
So this means I'm not getting the raise I came in to demand?
He looked confused!
walked out one of the guys they were asking to come back as subs.
Got my raise .... took a week off and went back to work "with" them ... gave myself a 30% increase in salery right off the bat!
Jeff
had to go back and check your numbers ...
I was listed as a "carpenter" ... making the top of their carp scale ... $15.50.
Leads at that time were getting $16 to $18.50.
Since I was being sent off to either run my own jobs .. or finish up when they had to send a lead off to start another job with his crew ... I figured I was a self-lead.
All the work .... smaller scale .....no crew.
It was either $18 or I wasn't coming back.
This was .... going on 5 years ago? About 2 years ago they bumped the top leads to $20 .... and their best lead got $22.
Project Manager that went from being the most productive lead to a guy that mostly rode around all day checking on everyone was at $25.
Jeff
Jeff, you shoulda told him you could cut a 9/12 without marking it. you'd probably be up to $50 by now
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Whats a 9/12???
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
a rafter.....
DUH!!!!
I need a vacation or something!!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
or something.... :-)