Maybe someone with a little more experience can answer this for me: <!—-><!—-><!—->
I am looking at the one piece wainscoting bit from MLCS products http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/wainscoting_sets.html<!—-><!—->
However, there is a two piece available from Amana.<!—-> <!—->
What’s the better bet? I will be using MDF and heard that if you rout the profile, apply vinyl spackle and re-rout after it dries it yeilds a 100% better finish. Having two bits and having to readjust seems like a pain. Any advice?<!—-> <!—->
Replies
Bump.
I have not used either bit in question but I am confused when you say you have to readjust. Do you mean that you would drop the bit a 64th or so and reroute the profile leaving a skim coat of vinyl spackle?
Could you not leave the bit height the same and route again just leaving what penetratted the mdf?
You might post this at knots too.
I have many MLCS bits and I feel that they are great for the price and you can't beat the free shipping.
Webby
Thanks Webby
What I meant was that if I had two bits, I would have to adjust the height after the spackle two times. No big deal really> What i really wondered was if there were any particular reason why one would choose a two bit set-up over a one bit. Is there a difference in the profile quality and joint tightness?
Oh, for cope and stick type joint. I get you. Yes it is a hassle with one bit; in making raised panel doors I prefer a two bit set. Rather than readjust . If you have the space and an extra router you could make a table for both and not have to readjust.
I wish I had enough space for a double router setup.
I think if you had to readjust for many joints, you might get a difference in joint tightness in some joints, just by the nature of human error in setup.
Webby
Edited 1/22/2009 10:40 pm ET by webby
I think the two bit set simply enables you to cut a profile that is not mirror-imaged.I would think that by raising or lowering the bit after spackling, the stiles and rails would not be aligned. When properly aligned, the remaining flat surface of the original board edge, along-which the bearing rolls, will be the same height as the vertical surface element on the top edge of the profile. Any change in bit height will shorten one and lengthen the other, so the pieces would no longer fit.I wonder what would happen if, instead of spackling, you shellacked the cut surface to cause the fibers to raise and stiffen, then re-ran them without changing bit depth? BruceT
Webby, funny you should mention a 2 router set-up; I was just thinking about making one, on a single top, one plate on either side of an adjustable fence. But having a two sided fence poses a dust collection issue.
I think I am going to go with the MLCS one piece bit. If you watch the video demo, it looks foolproof once the height is set.
I guess my question now is- how do I prep the edge with minimal fuss. I was under the impression that after the profile was routed, dress the edge, and make a second pass at the same height to remove excess, leaving only the pores filled, like Bruce mentioned "I wonder what would happen if, instead of spackling, you shellacked the cut surface to cause the fibers to raise and stiffen, then re-ran them without changing bit depth?" I heard Spackle, and Bruce's Idea of using shellac certainly seems like it would work too. Any other ideas or proven techniques? I'll probably try all of them before committing, so the more the merrier. Thanks again guys.
Depends on how you work.A single bit lets you do one setup at a time, and every time you get away from that setup, it costs you time, and possibly accuracy.I never bought a shaper, I did all my profiles on routers. I ended up with a collection of routers. Three for a set of frame and panel bits; one raised panel, one cope, one stick. I can go from cope to stick as needed with no slow downs.Another two routers for the dovetail jig, one straight and one dovetail.A couple more routers for giggles as needed. For me it was worth it. MDF? Sure there are all sorts of tricks. Some use thinned yellow glue. Some spackle, or use joint compound. I used to use pore filler. Gave glorious results, absolutely glass smooth. If you use a good oil-based primer, it'll "raise the grain" a bit on the MDF and when it dries you'll end up with a sand-papery texture. Give it a sanding and you're good to go. If you want to go the extra step, then do what one of the other guys wrote...hit the milled edge with oil-based primer, when dry, sand it, then hit the whole piece with oil-based, dry, then sand. Then two top coats of your choice of paint, oil or latex.Honestly, I wouldn't waste my time running it through the router a second time.
Yeah I like shellac treatment better.
I don't have the space but a two router table would be nice, There is proably a way around the DC issue.
I have several mlcs bits. Thanks for the warnings. I have not had any problems, though I have wondered a few times about the bits.
Webby
Edited 1/28/2009 1:56 pm ET by webby
I've got a Bosch set that I use for raised panel applications. Obviously the set you're looking at isnt for raised panel but I really like my bits.
I is a little tedious setting the edge bit to match the other but I always run a scrap piece (from the same stock) to use for adjustment.
On the MDF, after routing my panels, I shoot them with oil based kilz in the spray can. Then I sand with a fine sandpaper. It really smooths out the cut.
The nice thing about the spray primer is that on MDF it soaks in so quickly it dries in no time.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Not sure if this is what you're talking about but I've been using this to make my raised panels/stiles and rails
http://www.infinitytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=00%2D911
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I don't buy from MCLS anymore since I had a carbide cutter fly off the bit when I turned it on. It flew past my ear and just nicked the lobe enough to draw a drop or two of blood. Another inch or two over and it could have cut my jugular vein. Since it was early AM before the crew arrived, I'd have been dying all alone.
stay with the good stuff like Amana, Frued, and CMT
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Wow, that's a bad experience. Did you contact MLCS?
No - at the time, I was under a deadline for completion. I hung the bit on the wall in the shop where it still reminds me to be carefull and to only buy the best.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One of my router tables is fairly tall, with the top of the table being just about chest-height.More then once I've envisioned a chunk of carbide coming loose and popping a hole where I really don't want one.Ouch.Oh, and for the OP, I like Amana bits. And Whiteside. Others work well, but those are my favorites.
I was using a brand-new MLCS 1/4" fluted straight cutter on a 1/2" shank to mortice in some Brasso hinge stops and it broke at the shoulder, luckily enclosed in the mortice. I told the company, got a replacement, and that one broke, too. I subbed a 1/4" bit on a 1/4" shank that i had kicking around from The Early Years, no idea what maker, and it worked fine. I was taking three passes to cut 1/2" deep, so i wasn't taxing them, but i never bought another one.
Edited 1/25/2009 6:20 pm by splintergroupie
Plus, they dull or so chip so quickly in wood, life in mdfland would prolly be real short... course, you could get 20 for the price of a Whiteside.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
After working with purpleheart, bubinga, and wenge for a couple decades, when i cut MDF i think "butter". I've used some of it for trim in the house here for the economy of it all, but i'm growing very hateful of the stuff installed anywhere below six feet.
Maple is about my hardness limit, seems like the glues in mdf are of an unatural rockwell rating to my blades n bits.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
I've routed MDF in poor lighting and seen a lot of sparks thrown. Makes me thing there are paper staples or some other metal junk in the stuff.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A lot of the woods i used not only were really hard, but also drew silicates up in them. Teak isn't that hard, but it's one of the worst for abrasiveness, IME. The other thing that's hard on bits is chatter. Some woods, like bubinga and maple, rout calmly, but longer-grained, brittle woods like purpleheart require a death grip on tool or board. I did a lot of climb cutting on those kind to sneak up on a cut and learned to avoid using them at the long-grain edges of lazy susans bec they'd snap right off.
as I recall, my thought at the time about calling them was something like, "Yeah, they'll probably just send me another one just like it, or a credit coupon for more of the same. Who wants their junk?"reminded me of my aunt who was a year older than I back in high school...She had used some tanning prodct - Coppertone, I think, and it reacted with her skin and dyed her orange. So she and her mother crafted a letter of complaint to the company demanding some sort of satisfaction.They sent her a whole case of the same stuff for free!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The second time i called MLCS on the problem, they were pretty perturbed at me for wanting my money back instead of being concerned they could injure someone. Ah, well...wait'll Jimmy Carter gets hurt and they'll wish they'd listened to me.
Yikes, time to retire my MLCS bits. The Whitesides are good and the price decent. Don't need to be dodging carbide shrapnel.
Billy
When you order the MDF from your supplier ask for Pan Fibre or Medite 3D MDF. It is a type of MDF formulated with a more consistent core so raised panels and edge details are not as fuzzy or open 'grain'.
http://www.uniboard.com/panels/consumer/brands/panfibre/overview/
http://www.sierrapine.com/index.php?pid=11