I am renovating my kitchen and want to install wainscoting throughout. I can either just add “rails and stiles” over the existing wall surface or I can add a sheet of material and then add “rails and stiles” over that.
I want to do this in primarily MDF as it will all be painted and I like the hardness and smoothness of MDF. Then again, if I just lay trim over the walls, for the sake of not cutting a slew of MDF down into strips, I might just get poplar or something.
My problem is that when I double the thickness by adding a full sheet behind the trim, I am afraid that it will look odd at the door locations. I plan to trim the doors out normally and then run the wainscoting up to that. I could run the wainscoting to the doors and then only trim the doors out above the chair rail.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Also, it just occurred to me that I have a problem where the pantry cabinet goes. There is a wall on the back and one side. so, if I run the wainscoting to it, the cabinet has to be away from the wall enough to allow for operation of the cabinet.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Replies
I would consider a 1/4" layer of something to provide a nice painted surface.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Ditto. Or 1/8th in. Masonite.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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The walls are not horrible so I could leave them exposed. one of the reasons I was encouraged to use an underlayment was because I need to make longer one half-wall behind a run of cabinets and appliances. It is a couple inches too short since we added a dishwasher. The end cabinet now sticks out about 2" proud of the wall. Guess I could just use the trim to box out the end and add to it enough.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
That's what I was thinking but I don't know if the improvement is worth the effort or expense or difficulty with other trim and whatnot.My bigger concern on the thicker wainscoting is how the door trim will blend.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Pete, we do this on virtually every job. We go right over sheetrock with pine or poplar. Yellow glue and brad nails, with the occasional spring board for an uncooperative piece, holds fine.
Occasionally we'll install mdf instead of sheetrock, but the slight improvement in texture isn't usually worth the extra step, and repairs are impossible with mdf. Cut an outlet into the wrong spot? Tough luck.
An example on this page: http://harborsidedesign.com/living-spaces.cfm?row=5&photo=7&img=117.
But the yellow glue will react with the pine rosin and cause black mold on the sheetrock!!!! Unless ya shellac it first.
It's TRUE, look it up! I have seen it.
xnorkSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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OH boy....
Now, Now, you know that only happens in the frenchy climate. Pete is too far south.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Frenchy, is that you?:)BruceT
Very nice work ion the pic.I already have walls installed and they are gypsum lath and plaster.I am also debating how to trim out the wainscoting... thinking about adding a nice piece inside each of the "panels"... although that may be too much for appearances. Maybe cleaner and simpler is better.Like I said earlier, I am worried about how the wainscoting will blend into the door trim, for instance, if I make it too thick by adding an underlayment.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
If your plan for the wainscot-plus-trim is too thick for the door casings, you might want to consider adding a backband to the casings. And if that is just way too different from the rest of the house, I'd at least think about milling up my own backband, that is plain and unobtrusive.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
And here's another thought on casings that aren't thick enough. Shim them out.Add a jamb extension of say 3/16", add a 3/16 full-length shim behind the casing, and you're good to go.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
I was thinking about that but I am afraid it may look funny being so heavy/thick.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
>>"I was thinking about that but I am afraid it may look funny being so heavy/thick."("That" meaning adding a small jamb extension, and a shim behind the casing.)The added thickness, in most rooms, will never be seen by the occupants, for a few reasons.First, it's just a shim, carefully cut, pinned to the back of the casing before it is hung, sanded flush with the edge of the casing, and caulked in place with the casing. So there is no added line, or shadow to highlight it.Second, the added thickness will only show above the top of the wainscot. And if anyone is looking that closely at the trim scheme, they'll probably recognize the need.Third, no one looks at the casing of a door while they are walking through it -- and if they do, they are seeing the jamb side of the casing and the face of the casing -- but not the edge where the casing meets the plaster/drywall.Certainly you need to do what you and your customer find appropriate. My point is only to say that the vast majority of people will never know the difference, will never see the added thickness.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
you are probably right and this is for my house, not a customer's. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
"I am afraid it may look funny being so heavy/thick."Some of our liberal friends here might say that your home is just the place for that look!;)Since thickness is the issue, have you considered Trompe d' L'eiol (sp?)Paint the wainscot on? I have a photo at home computer where that was done on one of my jobs ten years ago.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hi Pete,I would either cut the sheetrock away where the wainscot is to go and sheet it over with 1/2" stock (I would use cabinet-grade plywood rather than MDF) and then apply stiles and rails on top of that, or I would do as Tashler recommended. Attached are a couple of pix of one I did the latter way last year. I made the stiles and rails up as a unit, kregged together from the back, routed the perimeter out 1/4" deep on the backside, pre-primed the 1/4" birch ply panels then pinned them in from the back. Then I put the whole thing up as a unit on top of the sheetrock. You can see where I kregged it right into the door casings as well. Lots of bondo in the Kreg holes, and a couple of coats of Satin Impervo, and It's all smooth as a baby's behind.Steve
Hi Steve:Nice work - I like the design approach. Your chair rail just looks like a big extension of the window stool - I'm assuming you didn't add a stool on top of that? Nice that all of those windows lined up enough to pull that off...-t
Thanks. It's not an extension of the stool, the stool and chair rail are one piece. If they didn't line up I had no one to blame but myself. Here's what that corner of the room looked like 5 months earlier...
Edited 8/27/2009 8:03 pm by mmoogie
I have the same stand for my Dewalt miter saw. After years of lugging it around and setting it on floors and makeshift tables (saw horses and planks), that stand is really nice. Of course it is one more thing to lug around.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
I actually bought that used off a guy about 6 years ago for 50 bucks, last year I sold it to Henley for I think 25 bucks. I like how light it is, I don't like how long it is. Now I've got the 99 dollar ryobi that is much smaller but weighs about four times as much.
<<If they didn't line up I had no one to blame but myself>> Oh, I think you would have found someone to blame- me. How many ceilings did we take out of there? Three separate ones I think.
Edited 8/28/2009 7:51 pm ET by Henley
>>How many ceilings did we take out of there?<<"we" didn't take any out. You took all three out.
I get all the shaggy dog cases.
Personally (after just having installed a wainscot project) I would remove the wall finish at wainscot locations, cat between the studs for tongue nailing and use kd poplar, pre-primed. I would then use a flush-or-slightly-bolection chair rail over the wall finish/wainscot line to finish at, or just behind, the door/window casings.
Baseboard can be done nearly-flush, or just beyond the face of wainscot - if necessary to have it out beyond the casings it can be slightly rounded back to meet them.
In cases where the (removed) wall finish is thick (like 3/4"-1" old plaster etc.) it's possible to have a full baseboard/basecap and still finish behind casings.
Jeff
Edited 8/25/2009 8:40 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Pete,
One way I've done it is to put the rails and stiles together, then rout out the back of them 1/4" deep and then tack 1/4" ply to them, inset in the rout.
No extra thickness and a nice surface to paint.
Slightly tired and a few too many beers, so if i didn't explain it well, let me know and I'll try again tomorrow.
I understood it perfectly... you should drink more often!Thanks.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Can you hold the chair rail and wainscotting back from the casings and return the edge flush to the casing?
"Then again, if I just lay trim over the walls, for the sake of not cutting a slew of MDF down into strips, I might just get poplar or something."
You lost me there Pete. There is no need to cut MDF down into strips. They sell MDF sheets that have the bead board surface milled into it.
An option you don't mention is to remove the sheetrock from chair rail down, add bloicking for mnailers between the studs, then use the MDF beaded panel or the Azec T&G beaded board. It is 7/16" and would flush nice with the sheetrock that way and not creat the problems with trim you are facing
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I meant to cut the MDF into strips to use as 1x4s. I am not using a bead board substrate... just flat.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Yeah, I finally picked up on it that you were talking paneled wainscot and not beaded wainscot.
I'd just use trims and fake bolection on the plaster surface combined with different colour shades to do this.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Pete,
A couple of comments:
1) Are you adding a detail to the edge of the 1x4 stiles and rails? Either panel molding or a routed detail on the edges of the stiles and rails? If so, 3/4" thick material is fine. If not and you plan on keeping the edges square and sharp with no detail, then 3/4" thick can look a little heavy. Consider going with 1/2" MDF for your stiles and rails.
2) I did several rooms in my house with "proper" cope and stick poplar stiles and rails and captured MDF raised panels. When it came time to add a modified wainscot in my finished attic, I had about 160 linear feet and wanted to do it on the cheap. I used 1/2" mdf backer on the walls and surface applied MDF stiles and rails nailed to the backer. The attic was the kids playroom and it shows no damage.
And then I did two other rooms with 1/4" luan as the backer panel and covered that with poplar or MDF stiles and rails. All paint grade. All versions look equally good. Or equally bad depending on how you judge my work.
3) If you run into depth problems with the wainscot meeting up with the door/window casing, the easiest way to overcome that is to add a backband around the door and window trim. Again, easy to do and poplar works great.
I got a nicely profiled casing that is very think on the outside edge.. very nice style too. it will do well to blend with the wainscoting.Yes I am adding a trim piece inside of the "panels" and that should really make it look exceptional. I am excited and should have it up today i think. I have a couple exterior doors to install first
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
If you know how to paint (everyone thinks they can) go right over the
rock, no one will know it's not raised panel.
>>no one will know it's not raised panel.<<He'll know.
Anyone that knows what a raised panel should look like will know.
I'll make sure I don't invite any of those people over.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
That'll work.
<comments overheard at the Anniversary Petefest>"Hey Pete, nice wainscot. Are those panels drywall?"I wonder how many times I can get away asking that before you and Lisa kick me out and your kids take all my lunch money at the poker table, leaving me with a long hitch hiking trip to get back home.
Of course the kids gotta be sure they got all your loot before we give you the boot. We don;t want to find out you had a 20 hidden in your sock.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Well, you could always cut out the drywall and go with this (I've used it before):http://www.designerdrywall.com/
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Very true.