Hey Everyone,
Does anyone know anything about wall jacks? I have looked at Procter and Tranzsporter. I would like to get a set and am thinkin that between the expense, and the potential for disaster that I should make a well informed decision. I work alone a lot and safety is important. Which translates into quality. Any inputs from you all?
Thanks!
KD
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Replies
Someone here will blow you off and suggest you do a search on this very common topic here on the board. Then after blowing you off they/someone with repost everything said on those past fifty threads right here on your new thread. Welcome to Breaktime.
Just showing you the ropes.
So, don't really know anything about wall jacks, do you?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
More than you will ever know. Is that enough for you?
Many of us in the Detroit area have made a lot of money with a product called Mac Hoist. Check National Ladder for current prices. They knock down and you can haul them in your Pinto. Thats what I did when I was a rookie apprentice foreman.
.
blue
"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
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I have proctors and love them.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I bought my first set of proctors in 1972,two more sets since then. All three sets are varying heights. The first set works as well as the newest, after 34 years.
I don't know about tranzporters, but I do know the Proctors are safe, and made well.
Greg in Connecticut
Blue Eyes, Piffin, & Gzajac,
Thank you very much. I like the experience quotient you bring to the discussion. I think I know where to go from here. (Proctors) I appreciate your inputs.
KD
I think it depends on how much wall raising you're going to do. I've tried Proctors and they're nice, no question, but they're expensive and bulky. For a full time framer they'd be a great investment but they are rated to lift, what, 1,000 lbs each?
For part time framers I'd reccommend the jacks that climb a 2x4. They have been the industry standard here in the Pacific Northwet for the 30 years I've been building out here and I have never seen or heard of an accident using them. They are rated for lifting the same weight as the Proctors, are far easier to store and transport, and at 100 bucks apiece are well worth a look.
In fact, I think the 2x4 type are more versitile, too. I have safely lifted some heavy beams alone with mine - like a 5x18x23ft glulam, can you do that with two Proctors?
Romania wasn't built in a day.
That is one heck of a beam to lift.
How did you stablize the lifts and how high did you lift it?
This was inside a building. Had to raise the beam up to support the ceiling joists in the downstairs and the pony wall midspan of the rafters. I left about 8 inches of the bottom exposed to match some smaller glulams in the same room, so I'm thinking the bottom of it must be...7'6" or something.
Piece of cake, really, just nailed the tops of the jack posts to the rafters and toenailed the bottom to the subfloor. Jacked it up by myself in about 1/2 hour and never broke a sweat.
What I was REALLY proud of was how I got that glulam into position in the first place. Cut a hole through the side of the house and had the driver start his dump action, then back up until one end was just inside the hole. I had several pieces of 3" ABS cut to about 12" lengths. Put one under the beam. Had the driver lower his dump a little, then back up slowly. I kept sliding pipe under the beam until I had all the weight on the pipes. Used a wrecking bar to shift it into position exactly where I wanted it and raised that baby up without ever spilling my coffee. That was a good day.
I've since used those jacks several times to lift heavy beams...used to have a photo of my son jacking a ridge beam into position in a similar way...let me see if I can find it. Romania wasn't built in a day.
Jim
I will admit your jacks are a lot easier to use in that situation.The majority of my work is house framing so we use a forklift or crane more often.
Greg n Connecticut
Hey Greg - Thanks for that thing. Sure got a grin out of that.
"forklift"? "crane"? Now THOSE are handy tools. :-)Romania wasn't built in a day.
Jim, those just use a SINGLE 2x4?
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Yeah, work great. Almost as common as worm drives and 3 legged 6 foot step ladders out here.Romania wasn't built in a day.
The three legged step ladders work great by me. I had a ten footer
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I still do! 5,6,8,10...I think that's it in tripods. Just recently bought a Little Giant - now THERE'S a handy ladder! Wish I'd bought one years ago.Romania wasn't built in a day.
i've had two of those for about a year or so now. They save a lot of staging work.You do need to watch where your fingers are sometimes though.
But both the little giants and the tripods are real solid under you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I"m still waffling about buying that Little Giant. My worry is the weight. I hate heavy tools.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Hijack alert
I have been looking for the jacks you hang over the top plate of a wall for planks. Anyone know who makes them? They look like a good idea.
I think these are what your looking for:
View ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView Image
Questions & AnswersQ: How much weight can a pair of WallWalkers hold?A: WallWalkers are rated for 250 lbs. or 500 lbs. evenly distributed per pair.Q: Do I hang the WallWalker on the inside or on the outside of the wall?A: They can be hung on both the inside and the outside.Q: Are Fall Protection attachments available?A: Yes, handrail posts that support toprail,midrail, and toe boards are available.Q: Height restrictions?A: There are no height restrictions as long as local and federal requirements are being followed.Q: How much weight can a pair of WallWalkers hold?A: WallWalkers are rated for 250 lbs. or 500 lbs. evenly distributed per pair.Q: Do I hang the WallWalker on the inside or on the outside of the wall?A: They can be hung on both the inside and the outside.Q: Are Fall Protection attachments available?A: Yes, handrail posts that support toprail,midrail, and toe boards are available.Q: Height restrictions?A: There are no height restrictions as long as local and federal requirements are being followed.Q: How do you remove the WallWalkers from the wall when the blocking has been installed?A: The WallWalker has been uniquely designed so that the hook can be easily detached.Q:How far does the horizontal beam extend away from the wall?A: The horizontal beam extends 38 inches from the wall. This allows for sufficient room to cut standard tails and fascia board while standing on the WallWalker platform.Q:How far apart can I put each WallWalker?A: As far apart as the length and duty rating of your plank will allow. Basically, the length of the plank, minus 2 feet. however, the distance between handrail posts should not exceed 8 feet.Q:Can the plank height be adjusted? A: Yes, it can be adjusted with or without removing the plank. (California CSO Section 1645(e)(5) requires minimum 20" plank.)
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Greg in Connecticut
You have those, Greg? Those look great. What do those cost per pair?Romania wasn't built in a day.
Jim,
I've had a pair of Wall Walkers for a few years now. Love them.
When I bought mine I bought the 8' long ones so that they could be set low enough to hang windows, although most of my use is for edge of roof work. (Set trusses, sub fascia, start roofing).
They were pricy, although I can't remember exactly how much. I don't begrudge the cost, as I have a weakness for scaffolding that can be set up quickly and be secure.
I can relate to your feelings about working with your kids. In my case it was me working with my father. My son decided real early on that construction wasn't for him.
Terry
Thanks alot Greg I believe those are it.
Greg, is there a picture of those brackets? The video demonstration won't work on my computer and I'm interested because I drew up some "inventions" about wall brakets for scaffolding many years ago. I'm just curious about what our differences are. I might even order some, but the website doesn't have any pictures that I could find.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Blue,
Go back to the link and hit "instructions" It came up in PDF format for me. Parts list and assembly instructions
Yikes, the one picture I wanted to see (step 2) is missing.
Is this some sort of conspiracy?
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Did you try the Parts PDF, same page.
we both know there is no such thing as coincindences...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Yeah, they ARE a little akward to pack around. But holy smokes, man, they are handy with a capital H.Romania wasn't built in a day.
Jim,
What brand are yours. I have one Qual Craft and a pair that were QualCrafts predecessors. Mine however use 3/4" black iron or galvinised pipe for the handle which I find convenient because they make for a smaller package for storage. I have never seen ones with handles as part of the unit.
I too have lifted very large beams using mine, sometimes using all three jacks at once on the really big beams.
Orchards ladders ....doesn't everybody own at least one?
What brand...what brand...don't remember off hand and it's too dark to go out and look dovetail. I'll try to remember to look tomorrow. I THINK they might be "American" or something.
The ones I've always seen and used before these are the same as you describe, with a pipe handle (you ever thread two short pipes into a 45 degree elbow so you can stand on the deck and jack a wall all the way into place?). But our local yard had these on close out a few years ago for something like 30 bucks each so I snapped them up. I really like them. They are steel, not cast iron, so I trust them a lot more. I always worry about using cast iron for heavy lifting. Never seen cast iron jacks fail, but can you imagine if one did?Romania wasn't built in a day.
I too have worried at a times about the cast breaking. I have only seen one broken one though.
That one broke because some earnest hard worker had tossed it from a three story building in the general direction of the truck parked on concrete 3 floors below. Not qualifying as failure due to use in my opinion, though some would disagree.
Yeah, so my worry would be a jack got a crack somehow, maybe from rough handling (huh? carpenters accused of handling tools roughly?) or maybe stuff got thrown on top of it in the truck or something...anyways, one cracks and you grab it to raise a wall without thinking much about it and don't notice the crack until it's too late.
Not hard to imagine. That's all I'm saying. At least with steel, you might see the steel stretching or otherwise deforming before it failed. Cast iron fails in a hurry. But again, I know I have gotton more paranoid as I have gotton closer to the end of my career - I've never seen or heard of a jack failure. Romania wasn't built in a day.
I've never seen or heard of a jack failure
My riggings have been steel and I've seen welds failing. It's easy to reweld them though.
There's nothing wrong with being ultra conservative Jim. Ironically, I'm probably a lot safer, but less conservative now, than in my youth. Experience can make a huge difference on using wall jacks. I shudder at some of the things I did when I was young while being led by the oldtimers who were more accustomed to heaving everything up by hand.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Just remembered to look, Dovetail. Mine are "American Wall Jacks". Made by American Manufacturing Corp. in Avon, Mass.Romania wasn't built in a day.
Hey Jim, Just gotta comment on your "lift". Way "back in the day" I helped my dad put a big I Beam in Place. Don't remember how big but it was heavy. I was a young stud and I would go from one end to the other and he had me lift that thing one block at a time til we got it up to the gable and then he'd nail a "step" under it from there on up. It was in S. Mississippi in the summer time. I used the pad out of a car seat for insulation and padding! It was one hot mutha! But I got it up there and we took a picture. Pretty prized pic too. Me and my Dad after a heavy lift. Those days are past but It was really sumthin. He was'nt much older than I am now back then. Man, whatta great pic. KD
Your Dad was lucky. There's nothing better than working with your kids. It's made for the best memories and shared experiences I have had with our three.
Now I have a great young carpenter working with me full time and I am really enjoying that, too. In some ways it's better, but I really miss the daily interaction with my kids. Didn't think I'd miss them so much. Romania wasn't built in a day.
hey, knight... why don't you scan that pic and post it here ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Mike, Don't know how to do that, but I'll try to learn! Let me see if I can get it figured out. KD
knight .. if you have a scanner.. it's fairly easy
if not.. take a bunch of old pics you really love to the drug store , or Staples, WalMart, etc, that has the ability to put your pics on disk
once you have them on disc you can share them..
or you can buy a scanner for $50Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good story Jim. Thats just a good carpenter story.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Cool. How big was your son's ridge beam?
That one wasn't very big...5+1/8x12x20 maybe? I don't remember exactly how long that span was, but something like that. That beam we could probably have placed with ladders, but what if one of us started to lose our end? Or something slipped unexpectedly? I don't know, anymore I generally take the safer route, even if it's slower. I REALLY like getting home in time for supper.Romania wasn't built in a day.
jim... we've been setting beams with our Proctors since at least '84
on this job we set the structural ridge, 3 LVL's , ( 5.25 x 11 7/8 ) x 28'... here we used the pipe staging as our stiff arm... sometimes we turn the Proctors into tripods for vertical lifts
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/13/2007 8:23 am ET by MikeSmith
Nice, Mike. Thanks. I couldn't do that with my jacks.Romania wasn't built in a day.
Wish I'd taken some pics of a Hip roof we did a couple years ago. 32' x 14" lvl hips. Had UBS boom em up to attic, set the ridge and common rafters ( front, back, and one each end -to end of ridge) put the proctors in the fork at end common and each front/ back corner. Looped the cable over the ridge, put it around the lvl ( did cut a cable thickness notch 1/4 x 1/4 in the bottom so the cable couldn't slip up the lvl) cranked it right into position....all things should go so smooth........
Bing
Mike ..... Stiff Arm ??????
stiff arm.. the pipe staging is holding the Proctors almost vertical.. turning them into a hoist... i used "stiff arm " as opposed to a guyed hoist
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike thanks for your reply. The picture is difficult to see details. However, it appears taht your wall jacks are not verticle, but lean. Therefore, your jacks are not being used as another poster here showed where the ridge beam was directly supported by the jack and lifted right-up along side the jack pole (2x4). In your case it looks like you are using some kind of a line attached to the ridge. Am I correct? Details?
i've done it both ways... vertical lift.. and leaning
in this case we wanted the pipe staging to work the rafters/beam anyways
when we got the beam above the pipe staging we swung the poles to vertical and dropped the beam onto the pipe stagingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks MIke!
Moved the poles vertical? Under the weigth of that beam was that not unwheldy (spelling?), and heavy?
Secondly, it seems that having the poles at an angle would make the staging unstable. Did you have them cross braced in some way?
the poles were close to vertical.. as you know, when proctors get above about 50 deg ( with a wall ) the weight comes off. and you have to make sure the wind doesn't grab the wall
same thing here.. when the poles are close to vertical there is not much resistance.. you can move the whole thing fairly easy
the resistance of the pipe staging was sufficient hereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I suppose. It justs seems scarey to have that 300 + pound beam floating around 15 feet up on a lever arm.
i tatally agree with you. i've been using them for two years now and i've never had a problem. we've raised up to 100 ft. walls with sheathing and sometimes windows (not my choice) . that sure helps me keep the labor cost down also.
Don't do much framing any more but my partner and I used Proctors for decades.
Very versatile, 60' wall lifts, lambeam hoists etc. with just the two of us..... they are a bear to tote around tho.
they are a bear to tote around tho
I agree. I've seen the Proctors onsite and I always think to myself "I"m glad I don't have to deal with them".
I'm a firm believer that I'm most effective using a lightweight, compact solution if the situation warrants it. The Macs that we use can be very light to handles. I used to knock down my first set and could store them in a very small (10" x 10" x 28") space behind the seat in my van. They were always in my truck ready to go, yet they were never in the way. I don't think Proctor could make that claim, yet my wall jacks have the capability of going substantially higher than the Proctors. I guess the longest boom I could use would be as long as the lumber on site...28?!!!
I like light....especially if they are adaptable to heavy.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I own and use the 2 x 4 type of wall jack that is referred to in this post.
83909.8
They do have some limitations , especially when trying to lift walls that are over about 14". But they are versatile for a lot of other tasks, lifting beams as mentioned is just one of them.
http://temp4.sayitrightsolutions.com/Welcome/tabid/363/List/1/ProductID/24/Default.aspx
Proctor style jacks certainly have better capabilities in that regard.
I have two pair of Proctors.... 20'ers and 23'ers. I bought the 20's first and had them for a couple years. One day in my tool store I noticed that they had started to phase out selling new sets of Proctors and were pushing the Tranzporters. I was told of their great features (some of which are truly better than the Proctors) and the fact that they cost a bit less.
When I decided I needed an additional set of jacks I figured I'd try the Tranzporters this time. When I called my tool guy at the above mentioned store he told me that they went back to Proctors because of all the complaints about the Tranzporters including catastrophic failure (dropped walls) and guys getting walls partially up and then stuck... couldn't go up and couldn't go down. I didn't get into the specifics of what was happening mechanically to them as I had already heard plenty.
Now all of the above is just heresay. I personally have never had a problem with the Tranzporters because I don't own any. But I felt inclined to pass this along to you.
The Proctors are heavy and they are expensive, but everytime I need them and use them I thank my lucky stars that I have them. My chiropractor misses me... but she'll get over it.
Hi DP!
Thanks for your input. After some DD and all you alls input I went for the Proctors. I expect them next week. You know they do seem expensive but having seen a number of pretty serious accidents I just figure its only money. "I ain't never seen a casket with a luggage rack" (Tony Everett- 1957-2000) So I spent the money. Your counsel is taken and I appreciate it. KD
before my proctors, I'd never seen a wall raising accident, but enough stomach twisting almosts to leave me with more grey hairs than I ever needed. I never get nervous with the proctors on site
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!