Would a wall mounted plasma (or LCD) flatscreen TV typically get a 120v wall outlet up high (like maybe @ 4’6″) that would “land” behind the TV? I would think so, but don’t really know.
I’m building a house for someone who wants to mount 2 TVs at about standing eye level on the walls. They asked for CATV outlets up high but not receptacles.
If so, I wonder if these TVs typically come with a right angle plug that would not protrude from the wall as much as a standard straight plug?
BTW – when are we going to get an “Electrical” folder here at BT?
Edited 4/2/2008 5:13 am ET by Matt
Replies
Put the duplex outlet next to the box with CATV, by code they have to be in seperate boxes. They also make a recessed box for applications such as wall mounted clocks.
Thanks - that is what I thought...
RE "They also make a recessed box for applications such as wall mounted clocks." so what is that? a regular (but deep) box, and then later the special receptacle device and cover are installed? I found this web page, but it doesn't really say what kind of box is requried...
Edited 4/2/2008 6:25 am ET by Matt
Arlington makes a recessed box just for flat screen.http://www.aifittings.com/whnew98.htmAnd they make surface mounted raceway systemhttp://www.aifittings.com/whnew91.htm
http://www.aifittings.com/cableway_video/Cableway.html
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That looks like fine thing.I wonder how necessary this is tho because at my AV store, they advise mounting it out from the wall a couple inches anyways, for heat dissipation.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Consider this also. I mounted my flat screen above fire place in new addition to house. Along with power receptacle I ran 4" PVC pipe fromc the area behind flat screen over to area behind cabinet inside wall.
good to have this chase for cables to dvr and other equipment. As far as the flat screen receptacle , The mounting bracket for flat screen projects off wall and leaves enough space to plug in set with normal receptacle. Only thing to consider with this is no surge protection on that outlet. I ended up running extension cord through pvc chase to surge protector.
Edited 4/2/2008 7:05 am ET by gofigure57
there are receptacle surge protectors available, $30-$40.also cable for tv connections should be rated for in the wall.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Thanks all who responded. I guess I should have been more detailed. The customer already declined to pay the $350 for surround sound speaker wiring installation. He is going to get a guy he knows to do it. I explained that I would take no responsibility for that. I will go ahead and give them the 2 extra outlets mounted up high - I should have "sold those" up front. As far as conduit in the wall, etc, etc, the company I work for has a motto - "The customer always gets what he wants. And he has to pay for it". This is not to say I won't work with people... but going to a lot of extra trouble for free isn't gonna happen. I'm also on a very tight schedule - as MANDATED by the customer. That pretty precludes most extra stuff.
Hey - I know 10 times more about it than I did this morning. Thanks!!!
The orange place sells a plastic recess box by the cable/network stuff that mounts boxes perpendicular to the plane of the wall, so plugs aren't jammed up against the back of the tv. They are a knock off of the fancy structured boxes--but are like $20.
"The customer always gets what he wants. And he has to pay for it"Of course I never said they should get anything free. I guess I forgot to say that I sell the customer all that stuff. If they do not want to PAY for it then they don't get it. (of course I have done home theaters in up scale spec houses but the builder had it in the design to start with.) Also my electrician does a great job of selling the owner on what they should have and how it can protect their investment. We do a lot of home theaters he does all the electric and he is a dealer of high end components as well. So I guess we do not deal much with the guy who just wants to go to Wal-Mart and get a TV and hang it on the wall that is not our market. A lot of the remodels I have done now are centered around entertainment rooms including all the components and the budget is set before we start. So I am not just adding a plug so the homeowner can go to Wal-mart or best-buy and get a set and hook it up. (except for secondary TVs in bedrooms or baths and kitchens) So I guess I approached this topic from a different view point. A lot of great ideas from the others here as well.
None the less thanks much for taking the time to provide all the info you did. Like I said, I learned a lot. Next time I'll try and sell some more comprihensive facilities. This house will be ready for drywall on Tuesday, so it's not gonna happen this time.
Here's what you do - purchase the wall mount mount now. Chief http://www.chiefmfg.com/search_results.aspx?CategoryID=8 makes the best ones, generally. Hold it up at the preferred height and location and note the (usually rather large) central area where there is open space. Some mounts also come with templates, which are easy to tape up to the wall. In most cases the tv will be held off the wall enough to clear the power and cable plugs without any problem.
You can control multiple pieces of equipment with the programmable Genesis universal remote kit - http://www.universalremote.com/consumer/products.php A number of these broadcast in RF and convert to IR with either direct IR input plugs or stick-on emitters (if your equipment doesn't allow for direct IR).
Jeff
Edited 4/3/2008 12:06 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I run in to this all the time. The thing is these new flat panels have made setting up a TV more of a built in installation then just a TV hookup. Every one thinks about the power and the cable hook up but ... What about that DVD player or the Digital Cable or satellite box or DVR box oh and how about that surround sound receiver and speakers. And what about how to control them all with a single remote even if the components are in another room?
Now you can see you may need more in that wall then just a plug and a cable hookup.
Now you can get basic programing on a secondary set with just a cable hook-up and a outlet. And in a bath or kitchen often this is all you need (small TVs with built-in DVD players are popular in Kitchens)
But for large screens in the main entertainment area you need to think about how to hook up all that other stuff without having wires hanging out. And just because the client does not own it now if you do not think about how it will be hooked up later, then in my book you have not done a complete job.
Remember this is not the old TV in the entertainment center that could hold the TV and all that other stuff of course you still want all that stuff you just don't want to see it today.
It is the difference between installing a built-in Sub-Zero refrigerator with filtered water and ice-maker and wood paneled doors that blend in with the cabinets. vs. just putting a outlet in the kitchen for the refrigerator that sits out where you can see the sides. with no ice maker or water in the door. Remember those old kitchens where you might have a small cabinet over a refrigerator and that was it. Not very common any more. Today home owners ask for or even expect features once only in high-end homes. Now can you imagine if the homeowner expected a built in fridge and you gave them a outlet and a space for them to plug in the fridge when they move in.
Now you may not have the TV itself installed until they move in but you want all the cables there when the TV does get there.
gofigure57's idea of a wire chase made of PVC is a great idea but make sure it is large enough to not just run a cable but to allow the cable ends HDMI and DVI cables are can be almost 2 inches wide.
Now if ether of these TVs is gong to be 40" or larger (meaning they are more likely to be used for movie viewing) I would go as far as to recommend doing a complete entertainment wall plan. this includes wiring schematics that layout the location of all wires speaker locations, components to be connected now and future connections. This simple step has saved me more then once after a dry wall contractor covered over all the low voltage boxes I knew the exact location of each box. Also I you have a picture to leave with the home owner so they know later just what is in that wall and where they need to go to hookup that new XBox360 they bought for christmas.
Thing is as a builder or remodeling contractor you may not be the one to hookup the components but you should know enough about what the owner expects when you plan for the TV hookup or they may be cutting open walls later to do what should have been done when the walls where open. If you are not sure call a home theater expert. My electrician is also a home entertainment supplier and installer so I often leave what is need to be hooked up to him but I talk to the him and the homeowner before we close the walls. Later when you have final finishes installed and the homeowner has moved furniture in you really do not want to get dry wall dust or sawdust everywhere.
Edited 4/2/2008 8:37 pm ET by MFournier
The PVC pipe in the wall for the multiple cables is the way to go. Remember the new TV's run best with surround sound and so those speakers including the sub are away from the TV. Use a big enough PVC pipe for the 'new' HDMI cables that have a wider female end.Mike
I've been thinking of doing something similar to the PVC when we build our new house. I haven't looked into all the different types of pipes, is PVC the best choice? I will have the whole house audio wired so I considered doing all that using some sort of pipe in case I want to do some enhancements in the future!I am also considering putting one of those remote controlled TV wall mounts which allow the TV to hide inside the wall and it only comes out when you are using it! they are expensive though, doubt they are worth it.--Carlos
Go with some sort of chase (e.g. PVC): technology WILL change. CAT5 -> CAT6, twisted-pair -> fiber-optic, etc.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
I do not think you can prepare for the changes of the future. When I bought my plasma TV the cable of choice was a gold strand RCA type. Soon after the HDMI although my cable box was not equiped for such cables. Now a year later with a newer digital box and HDMI compatable I bought the HDMI cable system. 12' was over $100.00. Monster Cables I believe was the brand I finally used. I also purchased a surge protector that regulates the power to the TV and surround sound system. It sure is pretty looking - lots of lights and digital read-outs. @$150.00. Heck I bet I have as much in cable and other stuff as I have in the TV. All to watch Michigan play football in HD. Save the jokes!Mike
Well yeah technology changes daily, thats why I want to have as many ways to run new cables to rooms as possible. As far as cables go, everyone I know is going to monoprice.com, way cheaper than most places. I hope to wire my whole house with cat5e at a minimum, so its gonna get expensive, specially if I get my two outlets per room plus 4 or 6 in the office. Yes I am a computer geek.
With any luck, they'll figure out how to get all this stuff wireless just as soon as we figure out how to make sure we can put in all the wires :-)
My experience with wireless hasn't ever been good when it comes to AV. Now the one thing that I think can save it all is with things like the AppleTV and AirTunes, because their signals are digital so there can't be any loss of quality by going wireless. Hopefully more and more AV systems will support wifi and maybe we'll end up finally seeing good quality wireless AV.
My experience with wireless hasn't ever been good when it comes to AV. Now the one thing that I think can save it all is with things like the AppleTV and AirTunes, because their signals are digital so there can't be any loss of quality by going wireless. Hopefully more and more AV systems will support wifi and maybe we'll end up finally seeing good quality wireless AV.
I'm using a Terk 'Leapfrog' wireless connection from my cable box in the living room downstairs to the television in my bedroom upstairs. It works quite well for my purposes, although it doesn't have a lot of range - the upstairs TV is directly above the cable box so it's only ten or fifteen feet away as the crow flies, and when I tried it on televisions in other parts of the house that are farther away the reception was pretty poor. It also essentially takes over control of the cable box downstairs, so if someone were in the living room watching TV they'd have to watch the same channel I'm watching upstairs.
I think some sort of standardized wifi for AV systems will be the way to go in the future, so people won't have to worry about having to hide wires for televisions and speakers and DVD players and all that.
My experience with wireless hasn't ever been good when it comes to AV.
Same here. Not having wires for the audio signal is negated by needing wires to power the speaker (or a handy cupboard to stockpile D cells in).
For outdoor speakers, especially ones moved-to-suit, wireless is ok--the party is more important than the audio quality.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Now that you mention outdoors! I need to find an easy way to get audio from my house all the way to the pond where I plan on having some party area, its gonna be around 200 to 300 feet worth of backyard those wires will have to cross!
I need to find an easy way to get audio from my house all the way to the pond where I plan on having some party area, its gonna be around 200 to 300 feet worth
"Easy" LoL!
For more suburban distances, the "rock" wireless speakers are actually kind of nice, if mostly for the fact that they as self standing, and can be tipped over if tripped upon. Also, since they are "loose" you can pack them in a deck box or storage cabinet (along with extra batteries, although a weather box with a recepticle with a charger can be nice, too).
At the distances you are considering, I'd be some inclined to add an AC circuit or two, and use one of the "over house wires" speaker repeaters. (You are planning on some a/c power out at the pond, corrrect?)
Mind you, for some parties, your best bet might be a pawnshop boombox that you might not worry so much about if it winds up in the pond.
Given your distance, wiring regular exterior-grade speakers to a location near an outlet, then bringing some portable unit to that might be easiest. With a portable, you can stab in guests' iPods as well as you own, too. That, or you're going to need a repeater or two (or a "pond house" for al lthe "stuff").Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Well the idea is to have a nice area next to the pond, maybe a grill, some chairs, hammock, etc. There is going to be some sort of building structure there, and yes AC power almost for sure.
The reason I want to run audio all the way there from the house is because I plan on having the whole house totally hooked up with the same audio, so it would be nice to have access to my whole music library from the pond instead of just having whatever some portable device can carry.
I plan on having the whole house totally hooked up with the same audio, so it would be nice to have access to my whole music library from the pond instead of just having whatever some portable device can carry.
Only in-real-life hiccup to that is the rather small number of time every room in the house needs to have the exact same audio program running.
Then, there's the very real issue of we're all going to have portable devices anyway, no matter how much we would like to only have the one, centralized, digital media center. <sigh>
Since you are thinking of a structure anyway, pawnshop laptop and a wireless-N connection might be simple enough, or simpler than trenching in 300' of coax for data/music. Even a pawnshop laptop, worst case is you have to "only" burn 700MB of music library onto a CD so it's local (which would have the advantage of not having someone come home to the main house and cutting your music off at the source--about 1-2 minutes' walk away).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
well yeah the rest of the house wouldn't have the same audio as in the same music or tv playing, but they would all be hooked up to the same centralized area. Ideally there would be a few input options and at least 3 or 4 different audio input options should be able to be used at the same time on different parts of the house, that way I can listen to music in the shower while my kids (when I have some) can listen to different music on their bedroom and my wife can listen to something else on the deck.I am seriously considering the wireless-n route, specially with the new apple airports getting wireless-n and being airtunes capable.
considering the wireless-n route
N has a lot going for it right now--at least until R or S gets pushed out there by IEEE <g>
The way I see it, everybody already has a "pool" of digital entertainment they will want near them. So, the answer will be not how to make a centralized reservoir of the digital data, but how to get all the individual devices to play nice together.
I think, personally, that we will see more devices out there, not less. That 4GB iPod is closing in on the MSRP of cheap laptops and equal to entry-level desktops. Around a quarter of the phones out there are toting music and/or playlists. I really think we will see either much smarter "boom boxes" or more use of room-by-room "computers." So the trick will be in controlers at some point. How to sort out whether to "pluck" one strand of entertainment or another, or to use the one locally slected in a specific room.
But, I've been wrong before.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I want to get some sort of screen embedded into my garage wall and some rubber keyboard (like a toughbook) so I can look up stuff while I am in the garage.Only if I had the money for all that ####.
screen embedded into my garage wall and some rubber keyboard
Flat monitors are plummeting in price, so that ought to stop being an issue pretty quick. Short term, though, you can get crt cheap, then all you need is a shelf.
Sealed keyboard is a specialty item, so not very cheap; the all-vinyl roll-ups in similar straints. Was supposed to be a roll-up PDA keyboard coming out, but IIRC, the MSRP was above $100 and that was a deal-killer.
Back to that dillemna of "buy cheapo (<=$20) and replace often" or "buy sealed/semi-sealed (ca $40) and replace sometimes" quandry.
I've used the all-vinyl sealed keyboards, they are nice and indestructible. But, you have to make a distinct keypress to compress the bubble switches, which can be a real pain with greas or oil on your fingers (wants to slip off). Oil or grease on the fingers then collects dust grit and dirt like a magnet. That combo then wears the symbols right off the keys in short order. (Quick, which key is a tilde?) Only good side is that the wear is proportionate to use, so you may still be able to touch type, from the partial glyphs visible. If you are a HnP typist, maybe not so much.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Somehow I don't see a "geek" still using CAT5, that's now really old stuff.Buy bulk cable and a top-end crimper - saves over-all.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
I said cat5e, the "e" is the key there :-)
Cat6 and cat5e can both do gigabit ethernet which is what I am concerned about. Cat6 will be great whenever there are terabit network cards on everyones house but considering most people haven't moved to gigabit yet, its going to be a while.
I will do cat6 if its not price prohibitive, but I'll be more than happy with 5e, after all I am probably gonna be wireless (802.11n) most of the time. --Carlos
Sure you can, just as I wrote, you put in a chase so you can "CHANGE" to the newer technology.
I know what you mean about the cables; we have about $680.00 worth among our components.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
this thing about big screen wall mounted TV's and cables have many variations and potential pitfalls.cables can be expensive and how many do you want to run in your wall? there's the thing of having the cable meeting in wall specs, the ones I see in the store don't make it obvious if they are rated for in wall or not.how many devices are you hooking up cable/OTA/satilite DVD, blue ray, vcr, cdthen do you want to have a bunch of cables to the TV or just one or two? getting a A/V receiver can help there since you are using that as the switch rather than the TV.how are you coming out of the wall/ cover plates etcsurge protector in a strip, in the power panel, in the receptical?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
I've built several entertainment centers since starting my business, and have extensively re-worked a few others to accomodate larger TV's, more components, etc, etc. These newfangled flat screen TV's have made that business go the way of the buggy whip. - lol
I've bid (unsuccessfully) on a couple of flat screen jobs and most folks don't want to hear that they either see a bunch of cabling on their wall, or they need to get someone to open the wall (maybe in a couple of places) to run all the cables out of sight. My bids now include an electrician and a TV installation guy to do all the wiring/cabling and get everything dialed in.
Finding homes for the DVD, satellite box and/or cable box, surround sound system speakers, etc can also be a real challenge. Most setups seem to involve some kind of variation on a buffet cabinet which seems to work pretty well, but the trend to hang the flat screen over the fireplace can cause some real headaches. My daughter and SIL actually bought a semi-cheapo fake fireplace from Lowes just so they could hang their flat screen over a fireplace. - lol
"most folks don't want to hear that they either see a bunch of cabling on their wall, or they need to get someone to open the wall"there are other optionshttp://cableorganizer.com/cable-raceway/Haven't used this stuff just showing
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Most setups seem to involve some kind of variation on a buffet cabinet which seems to work pretty well, but the trend to hang the flat screen over the fireplace can cause some real headaches.
Makes me wonder if there's going to be a whole generation of people with permanently stiff necks from watching televisions mounted way to high for comfortable viewing. :)
I have heard that stiff neck statement all to often. Sit in a chair, look at your tv that sits on the floor,now look above the tv if you have to move your neck something is wrong. I like to watch from a recliner as I am sure many do. Tv on the floor from a recliner, fully reclined is a more unnatural position.
Edited 4/3/2008 10:16 am ET by gofigure57
Dave you have pretty much decscribed my set up. Fortunately this was an addition and the walls were wide open. 4" pvc worked for me, Just use the larger radius 90s & 22 degree couplings for turns.
You're going to want "treated" power for your system; it goes on a common grid, but isolated from the rest of the house (make sure your power box or the surg-unit that feeds can isolate the cable too). We went with a Panamax, but I'm sure there are lots on the market. It's mostly for the sound, it's even more sensitive than your computer. If you can, put in a chase for your HDMI and power cords to the set; if not, a power pole can sure improve the appearance.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
In my own home I had installed a whole house surge protector when the house was built. It's in the outside panel right at the service entrance. I wonder how effective that is? There are 2 little green lights on it - I assume to say that it is functioning properly. I guess that doesn't isolate the AV system from electrical interference that is internal to the home though....
It's amazing how much noise all those electrical motors and devices we now use make. The better you sound system (home theatre too) is, the more you need clean power. You also have to make sure that a power hit can't go from machine to machine through the hook-up wiring.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Don't forget you can build channels into the wall so cables can be plugged in below, or a larger box can be built into the wall for plenty of room for outlets, smirf tubes, etc.
I'm a big fan of simply using 3/4 ply to build wire chases and oversized boxes to mount outlets in. If the TV is on the wall over a cabinet I'll make something like a 3"x6" ply chase with 6"x6" openings both behind the TV and in the back of the cabinet. Cords and wires are easy to dangle down into the cabinet where they can then be plugged into what ever you like.
Any TV chase in the wall can also be taken to below the floor if that works best to hide cords or simplify connections. Residential floors are not fire rated so there's no code issue for chases that go between floors, much like laundry chutes.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Careful code varies area to area. Here in MA and CT you need fire seal ether rock wool or fire chalk in any hole (including wires) though fire stop between floor joist space and walls and walls and ceiling space.
Many Old Laundry chutes no longer meet code
Any protrusion though fire stops (like vents or conduit) must be closed off to the rest of the wall and floor joist space with no less the 1 1/2 inch wood or sheet metal no less then 24 gauge all fire stop must be tight fitting and seal out draft transfer between floor joist and wall stud space (or wall to roof joist space) A 3/4 plywood chase would not meet code here code states it must be 1 1/2 inch think if wood. But if you use dry wall to seal off the chute or wire chase it would then meet code due to the fire rating of the dry wall. (also you can make a 2x box in the floor joists as a fire block then run the chase down to the lower floor it is the space between the studs and the space between the floor joists that must be fire stopped the bottom plate is the normal 1 1/2 inch thick stop but if you cut it or drill though it you need to re seal that opening.direct quote from MA code-
Firestopping shall mean the stopping off or enclosure at the ends and wherever else specified of the spaced between studs of partitions, joists of floors and roofs and other similar spaces to prevent drafts of air and communication of fire from one such space to another, Fire-stopping shall consist of wood not less then 1 1/2 inches thick, of sheet metal not less then no. 24 gauge or of masonry, or a combination of such materials.
Fire stopping shall be tight fitted in the space to be filled about pipes, wires and ducts, and if cute or disturbed in the placement of pipes, wires and ducts shall be repaired
There are sure to be more restive codes than IRC, or individual building departments that either formally or informally require more restrictive fire resistance than 3/4" ply for the wire chase.
Do your codes then allow open backed plastic low voltage boxes and plastic smirf tube? Personally, in a fire situation I'd much rather have a well sealed 3/4 ply box and chase rather than the plastic stuff.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
open back low voltage is allowed.
The problem is when you drill or cut a hole through to ether the ceiling joist space or down to the floor joist space it is at that location you need to make sure your chase is fire blocked. no air drafts between the two spaces.
Here is how we mounted ours up high in the kitchen... View Image View Image
I have posted more detail on my blog: http://10kkitchenremodel.blogspot.com/search/label/Television
TTF
I would use a picture light receptacle, also called a clock plug by some guys. it recesses into the wall somewhat
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