Wallpaper removal over unpainted drywall
paintguy
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
So every eight years or so I get a job to remove wallpaper that has been applied directly over untreated drywall and joint compound.
I guess eight years have past and I have a job I am bidding on that has eight offices with this condition.
Besides the gentle inch by inch approach, that may see spring come and go, is there any one out there who has a better technique?
I did a test in a couple place. The top vinyl layer peels off no sweat. Paper tiger does more damage than good with just the thin bottom layer underneath.
Thanks for the help,
Jon
“There is no good answer to a stupid question”
Russian saying
Russian saying
Replies
What's the chance you can seal the paper down with oil primer after removing the vinyl?
Good question Mark . If the paper adhered the same over the whole surface the oil prime would work. But it varies from a death grip over the joint compound to loose between screws.Last time we had to have a guy come in to skim coat the entire surface.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
I ended up skim-coating my sister's room, after she bought a house. I'd say that's your best bet.
Biff,
true a skim coat may be the only choice. I have thought about sealing the wallpaper with an oil primer then skim coating but it drives me nuts to leave that junk underneath. Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
In the case of my sister's house, we peeled off all wallpaper. The only problem is that we really damaged the paper face of the drywall. Not enough that the drywall itself was in bad shape, but maybe 50% of the surface was unusable for painting.I wouldn't want to leave the wallpaper on either.
Exactly Biff. That is exactly what happened last time.If only the last guys had taken the time to do this correctly...or at least consider the next person who has to deal with it.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
are you painting? if so, removal will be a royal PITA. remove the vinyl face, carefully, then prime with guardz from Zinnser. Read the can for best results.
This is the dilemma. Whether to seal what is there and skim it or to just bite the bullet and remove the old wall covering.In pricing this it has to be a balance for me. Time spent removing the old stuff or burying it and spending time skimming.That Gardz stuff looks amazing. I have never heard of it but I can see a bunch of different uses especially since it is water based.Thanks for the tip,
Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian sayingOh yeah the idea is to paint all the walls. Wouldn't have been a bad idea to start with
Edited 1/31/2008 6:19 pm by paintguy
do a test room first, don't bite off too much at first. See what works for you.
I wish I could. I am working up the bid tonight for delivery tomorrow morning.The building owner wants the best quality finish and trusts me to provide that...of course that involves me taking some risk on how long it will take to provide that.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
I just finished a laundry room from hell. The most effective method I have found was to use a mixture of fabric softener and water. Once I dry stripped the vinyl layer I used a spray bottle and thoroughly saturated the paper layer. It worked great.
I know what you mean Nate. I did 20 feet of hallway wall. The paper came of inch by inch. Nothing worked. Tried steam, water, DIF.... nothing helped.Now this fabric softener could be promising. It can't be any more expensive than what I have been using.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Anything that reduces the surface tension of the water will help. Fabric softener is a good choice as it does not suds. Photo rinsing chemicals might be another choice. Even a drop or two of dish washing soap. You might even try dish washer soap, it does not suds.I generally use as HOT of water as I can get, rather than warm water. But I'm usually doing plaster and not drywall, so it might be different on drywall.
I didn't know that is why some guys used the fabric softener.I try to use the hot water as well. The garden sprayer certainly allows me to apply it easier than when I first took off paper and used a sponge and a bucket.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
the paper was probably 20.5 inches wide with no wallcovering primer on the walls, right? Get some Dif, very hot water and let the chemical do the work, stay off the walls with heavy scraping. If you need some info, you know where to get it, I'll charge you a couple of loonies, eh.
The right kind of information could be worth a Toonie!I will look at the super hot water/dif mix. Patience has always been a good technique with removal jobs...and my four year old.Jon
"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
sounds like to me you just have a vinyl paper,if you can get the top of the vinyl off,just soak it in hot water and the paper should release with no problem.famous last words when it comes to wallpaper,huh? larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Larry,
like the nickname. I am guessing that is not on your business cards?We have a mix of papers. Three of the rooms are vinyl coated. Two are a heavy textured wall covering and the rest are some of the cheaper 80's thin, very thin, vinyl. Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
I don't bid wallpaper removal. I charge an hourly rate and give the customer an ESTIMATE of the most it will probably be. So far, I haven't gone over my estimate, but even with a very, very conservative number I've come close. I once spent a whole day on a small bathroom.
Here's what I tell my customers... if the wallpaper has been applied as to be one with the wall, then it IS the wall and there's no point in removing it.
I can prime, skim coat the seams and prime again in less time than it would take to remove permanent wallpaper and repair the resulting drywall damage.
I use an oil primer over wallpaper. I haven't tried the Zinsser Gardz, but it does look promising.
Don,
I never thought of skimming the joints alone. Do you just hit them once? It seems like it is worth a try. When asked by homeowners to paint over paper I always give the: If it bubbles I can't be held liable for the appearance.I swear by oil-based primer usually for any sealing of mixed substrates like this to. Still the best primer for tough cases. I remember interviewing a local painter to work with me and he said sure but he wouldn't work with ANY oil base product. Why I said he said it was too hard to work with. He didn't make the cut.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Edited 1/31/2008 7:47 pm by paintguy
I hit the seams twice. The 1st coat very thin. I've found that the 2nd coat will naturally build a little higher than the 1st because the 2nd coat sort of "drags" on the dry compound. Very little sanding is necessary. And I use a setting compound so I can easily get 2 coats in a short period of time.
I haven't had a problem with wallpaper bubbling when I used an oil primer. It is much more impervious to moisture than latex.
Oh, and I hate working with oil paints too. It's not the clean-up that bothers me, it's the splatter and how it just wants to run down the handle of the brush.
Don,
thanks for details. You are using setting compound for both coats? There is a new " dustless " compound I had thought of trying on this. Have you seen it?Oil is a bugger but still beats latex in alot of cases. I am picking up a gallon of that Gardz stuff tomorrow to try.Jon
"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Yes, setting compound for both coats. I usually use the 20-minute stuff.
I've used the the dustless compound. It works pretty much as advertised. That is, whatever you sand mostly just falls straight down. It sort of clumps as it's sanded. I use a sanding screen. Sandpaper tends to clog.
Thanks Don,
I had been wondering how the "dustless" stuff was. It always seems there is a compromise when something so great like that comes out. Off to finish up the bid.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Hi Don,
long time no type.
My son is a painter, and he often "cuts out the seam" just about 1/8 to 1/4 " each side, then skims the seam only, then primes like you said.
Not sure about the vinyl stuff though
You are one lucky guy to get the surface off the backing. Get you a smaller 5-in-1 tool and sharpen like a razor.
Now, start at the top of a sheet and spray lightly with warm water all the way across the sheet, only 8 or 10" high. Let soak for a few minutes.
Spray the next 8-10" under the first row and while it soaks, use the 5/1 tool to gently start the top edge and pull it gently down, helping (gently) sticky spots with the tool.
Repeat. Repeatedly.
You should be able to leave the drywall face with only a few small places to patch.
After the entire room is done, clean with tsp and rinse with moist towel.
Prime, patch, etc.
I've done MILES this way and NOONE in the area believes me.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
I might not have believed you either. When I look at 4000 square feet of wallpaper my 5 in 1 looks pretty small. But when I started this 16 years ago no one said it would be all glory.Worth a shot. Can I at least use my garden sprayer?Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
That will probably be too heavy a spray and saturate the underlying paper too much.
You'll pull more off with your fingers than with the tool. Sometimes it will remove in quite large sheets.
Top down with a mister bottle may be slow, but when considering the repairs required for the alternatives, it's about a wash. Finishes better, too.
4000 ft, huh? You'll need a full IPOD and some "zen", but it's gotta be done.
Been there. Charge for the time... I can't help your estimate 'cause they are all different.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Thanks for the warning on the sprayer. You are right about the wash when it comes to cost. If I am making the same either way I would rather enjoy the time spent doing the work instead of thinking I will never do this again.Ipod is loaded now I have to find my happy place.Just got that last part. This is going to take a light touch.Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Edited 1/31/2008 9:38 pm by paintguy
one more tip...
if the DW Paper is wet as the wallpaper comes free, you've sprayed too much. It should only be damp.Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
"You are one lucky guy to get the surface off the backing. "I have done 15-20 removals in the last 3 years. Each one is different.One I did 2 weeks ago the walls had been heavily sealed. The HO was able to just tear off the WP by tugging on it, except for one 5 sq ft section that they could not reach. And there where only a couple of small pieces of paper paper left on the walls. And the DW was in great shape, except for some place that where finished well in the first place.BUT THE ADHESVIE.It was the worst stuff that I had seen. worked about a 3-6 ft section and had to empty my bucket. Have 2-3 of residue that I had scraped off.And it took so much water and scrapping that it wore through the sealer and washed out some of the mud.But the wall board paper was never torn..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
pull off the drywall that has wallpaper on it...re-drywall...not a big deal
Problem is all walls have wallpaper. But if things turn really ugly you may be right on track. I do hate peeling this stuff off.
Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying