We’ll soon be installing walnut casing(1×4), base(1×8) and crown (think its like 6in across the face)in a finished ICF basement. Sheetrock was put on the walls when this place was built over 2 years ago, I didn’t work here then.
I guess when fastening the sheetrock maybe some adhesive and lots of shots in the dark to try and hit the flat plastic part of the ICF. I will say that it hugs the form well because you can see it in the walls and nothing is loose.
I would think with something like a standard speed base some glue and crossnailing would be enough, but my concern is that the walnut is a little unforgiving. Plus I’ve never worked with it to this extent.
Doors and window casings I was going to pocketscrew the trim together, maybe some glue where it lands on drywall and a few nails into drywall, basically the nails into the jamb would secure it.
I need all types of ideas but the real kicker is the crown. Some type of dropdown elegant tin ceiling is going in, so theres no ceiling nailer. Whats to do to bout fasting it, I could rip angled piece to the spring angle to to go behind the crown but what to fasten the rip to. I’m just not sure, I don’t have enough faith in the others to come up with a nice solution. I’ve been the one to always come up with the better nicer idea.
I want this to be top notch I really enjoy working at this house and I don’t like the suggestions that have been thrown out from the crew so far. BTW its really open on the river side, built on a hill, walkout, lots of light, slider, 5 large windows.
I know youse guys will come through thanks.
Replies
On the base, I'd cut out a 3" strip of sheetrock, and fasten a piece of 1/2" PT ply as a nailer. Or just experiment by driving nails until you figure out where the nailing is, and do without the ply strip.
basically the same technique for the crown. If you use a crown backer, just figure out where the nailing is, and fasten the backer into that. Once you know how much the crown is going to cover on the ceiling and wall, just be sure to stay inside those lines when knocking holes in the rock to find fastening.
Thats the thing there is no nailer only thing the sheet rock is on with is maybe 5 out of 50 screws in a sheet hit a small plastic part of the form that sucked the sheet up tight, and then the glue set up. I wasnt there but I gather thats how it went.
The form is probably 3 1/2" thick stryofoam. I need nailers but how? cut out sheetrock and use 1/2 ply glued to foam has really been my only good idea, nothing to screw it to effectivly, only guess and frustration.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with ICF foundations, so I was guessing. You said something about plastic?
There's no nailing strips at all in those?
In that case, I think I'd use a quick-grabbing construction adhesive, and figure out a way to nail and brace the base and crown until the glue sets up. You could cross nail everything. I do that with walls framed with steel studs, and it works pretty well.
Its ICF block system. Ive never seen this brand before or since but its kind of like arxx im guessing its an all foam block with one plastic tie that runs though the middle and if you dig out the foam from the outside you would see a 3"x1" flat plastic peice and thats what they were fishing for with the sheetrock screws. Nothing to go off.
Why not use adhesive like Liquid nails or another similar product? You don't have to run continuous cant strips for the crown, glue in some short pieces on 16" centers. You can use the adhesive on the other trim pieces, like base and casings. Cross nail where you think you need it. These style adhesives work very well. I've done lots of kitchen crowns, bases and end panels with it. It's used on Fypon and other such moldings where nails have nothing to hold on to.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Yeah, short pieces tend to stick better than long runs, because they squeeze right down into the glue -- warp isn't a problem. That's what I'd do.I like to get the ugly stuff -- smearing glue, cross-nailing, etc -- out of the way where it won't show. Crown is one place where you can do that.With base, I'd add that strip of ply if I was starting from scratch, otherwise, glue and cross-nail it is. Not worth the labor and mess to tear out the GWB.AitchKay
Thanks I guess I doubted myself but really all the suggestions were exactly what I was thinking. Guess I was just hoping for something I had never thought of.
The cant strips on 16" center was what I was thinking so Im glad it was suggested.
If were careful and thoughtful I think itll be OK. The material alone was 6 grand and a bunch of it still has to be milled for the crown, so probably should be a little careful with it.
Thanks for the help
Could Shep's idea work with a long tapcon through the plywood, say every4' or so? I know,PITA
I think you answered you own question. Although if the walls are too bad (theyre really somethin) and the walnut to difficult to work with I have considered what your saying. Im just hopin for the best
wishin ya the best. be happy to have fun work like that now I guess.
One thing you can do is put up a cant strip behind the crown.
You can often find this as a stock item in an old-fashioned lumberyard -- 1 1/2"x 1 1/2" flats, 45º angle face -- a 2x2 cut in half on the diagonal.
Or hold up a scrap of your crown to a framing square, measure how big an angled rip you could fit in behind it, and cut it yourself out of 2x.
Attach it with construction adhesive, and stitch it in place with lots of finish nails.
The next day, once the glue has set up, you'll have great nailing.
I love this kind of fix: ugly as hell one day, looks like a million bucks the next!
AitchKay
Or hold up a scrap of your crown to a framing square, measure how big an angled rip you could fit in behind it, and cut it yourself out of 2x
Thats what I was getting at:
I could rip angled piece to the spring angle to to go behind the crown but what to fasten the rip to. I'm just not sure,
But what to fasten the cant to or how would you do it securely?
Glue and finish nails is probably as secure as it gets huh? My thought keeps comming up that if for some reason a little pressure is on it, it only has to tear away from the paper and fall down.
This goes up to some kind of drop ceiling Ive havent seen yet, who knows what itll look like, Im worried not to cool.
Edited 1/26/2009 11:13 pm ET by danno7x
Edited 1/26/2009 11:18 pm ET by danno7x
Not saying I have any answers, just thinking. I would back-prime (seal) everything, even the cut ends, with something, prior to install. Minimize the trim's desire to warp or curl over time. I've never run across that exact situation for a whole room, I'm thinking liquid nails with angled finish nails and temporary pressure until it dries (which I think you said). I've used panel cement for shower walls before - its like a contact cement, trowel it on both surfaces, allow it to set up, then when you glue up both sides suck together. Only one shot to get it right, 'tho, if you know what I mean. No adjusting later."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
In a similar sitution a couple years ago, I put up cant strips for the crown.
I used PL, and a couple of globs of hot melt glue to hold them up while the PL set.
Good luck, sounds like a nice job.
Harry
I read about this adhesive, sort of an instant setting epoxy, that might help on miters. I've never used it, but it looks interesting.http://www.fastcap.com/products.aspx?id=232John
John,The Fastcap 2P-10 is a cyanoacrylate with an activator. Hot Stuff brand makes a similar product.
Shep's idea, use PL-400 on the foam & ply (make sure PL doesn't eat the foam). Lightly clamp in place with boards sprung from the adjacent walls or something stable sitting in the room. Use lots of the stuff and it will hold tight for you.
On the crown, Aitchkey was dead on. Screw (or long finish nails) the triangular backer to the ceiling joists with a bead of PL.
You'll be fine.
Danno. did you get to see the ICF's before they covered it? If you did there is a indicator where the strips to be screwed into are found.. some forms (like mine) have tiny ribs or slight grooves indicating where the strips are they are about 1 inch wide and every 6 inches on most forms. They are relatively deep in there 1 1/2 inches or so.. so I use 2 1/2 inch sheetrock screws.
What I did to provide a solid nail base was screw in thins.. those are thin strips cut when mother nature makes a tree less than an even inch thick.. another words they cut off 1 inch thick boards untill they get to the cant and then whatever the odd thickness is that gets set aside. I can but about 1000 bd.ft. of thins for $20.00 at my saw mill.. I seperate them in stacks 1/4 inch or thinner, 1/2 inch or thinner, 3/4 inch or thinner and everything over.
I run everything through the planer to standardise the thickness and then screw them up.. perfect wood base to nail, screw or whatever to..
Costs a whole lot less than sheetrock and is much easier to build onto.
I didnt see the forms beforehand. However one of the foundation walls comes into the building and is about 12' long. This wall is so crooked and was out of plum by about 1 1/2". Its been driving me nuts, Well today I ripped of the sheetrock and was going to rip studs to straingten things up.
Long story short figured out today what to look for for those plastic ties and theres more of them than I thought they are just staggered and seemingly random untill I had a look how it went. Of course there will still be plenty of exploring to find them. But when you get one located on one wall theres a layout to them for the rest of the wall.
I think its gonna be ok, after all. Well after I have the guy doing the poly work redo most of what hes done because he thinks its good to take shortcuts. Its not my responsibilty but I should have checked him i guess because Im not going to install it with runs and dirt in the finish. Hes real close to ruining 1/2 (3000.00 or so) of the boards. Stopped him today sent him elsewhere before I over reacted.
Well I guess with all the responses I owe you guys some oic of whats been done so far. Bear in mind I dont think the pics do it justice and Im not a real good photographer. Also I dont know how to post pics. Here we go
Wow it looks really dusty. I dont know how the size of pics is, comes right up for me so let me know.
This whole "tray" or "vault" was the brainchild of the owners with no idea how to make it work. They are engineering types but I dont know what they were thinking, well they went on holiday and this had to be done they came back and said they liked it. We really had to mess around with it to make things work.
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Edited 2/28/2009 10:49 pm ET by danno7x
Hats off to all those who post photo threads I see its a lot of work.
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Edited 2/28/2009 11:03 pm ET by danno7x
This is about it for now if theres any interest Ill put up more as it I get to it. When the weather isnt miserable we have some outside decks and stuff we plug away at there. We also just finished the large bedroom w/ bath above the garage, FIL's place to live in soon. Three different jobs on one job. This is his supposed "man cave" to exibit his conquests from african hunting adventures and to play poker.
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Edited 2/28/2009 11:13 pm ET by danno7x
so...that's glued on?"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Well the casing is pocket screwed to make 1 unit. then glued and it can be nailed into the jambs. The problem was all the crown and the baseboard werent going to have any nailers along all the exterior walls.
Put up "cant" strips for the crown by gluing and I found the plastic clip inside the foam to screw into. It'll suck it in but its not like wood, but with the glue it seems to be fine. Ran around the bottom with a sawsall and cut out 8" of DW because the base is 8 1/2" tall after its all together, and filled that in with scrap osb.
good thinkin'!
But yur not workin' hard enough - we need more "during" photos next time. Get you a cute little Canon digital camera for about $150, and you'll get some awesome jobsite photos, it almost becomes fun after awhile!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I know your right I thought about that but I find it hard to stop or just dont think of it, when all wrapped up in whats going on. Do you just find someplace safe nearby to set it? I seem to get too into whats going on.
This is was a good Sanyo 7.1 mpix camera that I have put through the wringer. I think theres a lot of dust or something in between the lenses, I dont know, sometimes its real good sometimes its blurry. I also cracked the 3" LCD, so ya only get to see 2/3 of the pic you take because of the black stuff that comes from the crack. It honestly is all my fault the camera is beat up.
Been waiting for a good deal on a new one for the family, then Ill still taking pics with this beater anyways.