I ran accross this forum looking for something about the Weston project.
http://advice.thisoldhouse.com/showthread.php?t=8367
Thought you would all appreciate the sour grapes type comments. Not that I think we need Mac Mansions; but new ideas tend to filter down, not up and it is good to see some of them demonstrated.
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Replies
Looks like they should change their name to TNM.
;o)
heh
You should have titled your thread 'Green Sees Red'.
Intimidation is the sincerest form of battery
Or tell them to go back to watching the sit-coms and extreem makeover and the commercials.
Or maybe the title should read 'Green See's Green.'Intimidation is the sincerest form of battery
Replace "TOH" with 'Fine Homebuilding', and you could pretty much find the same discussion right around here.
I followed your link and read the discussion there and have to agree with the sour grapes people. I began watching This Old House around 1980 and absolutely loved it. It taught the average home owner how to work on their house. It did that for about 20 years. Great show. I would program the VCR to tape it so I'd never miss an episode. In the last 10 years or so, it has changed into a show that is about picking out building supplies and appliances. The hosts of the show never pick up a tool anymore. Rarely do the show's experts. They just interview the contractors that have been hired to do the real work, after that real work has been mostly done. The homeowners don't do any of the work. Not even clean up. It's more of a "look at this new mansion" type of show than a "how to fix your house" kind of show.
In all fairness, I can't comment on the last few projects because I've stopped watching it.
Ask This Old House is decent though.
Edited 5/27/2009 12:07 pm ET by glatt
I think Ask This Old House really popped up to let the original TOH move more into a high-end type of show. The New Orleans Katrina rebuild project from a few seasons ago was the last time I remember even seeing a project that was at all modest in scope. This season's projects were a modular custom-built house (where the homeowners helped a little with landscaping, and that was it), and a brownstone remodel in NYC with pretty much zero homeowner input, other than decorating choices. Both projects were clearly in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.I do admit that the modular built house was an interesting project, just from the standpoint of seeing more about how modular construction is done. But nowadays, Ask This Old House is really the better show. TOH belongs on HGTV, not PBS, anymore.
Yeah, Hometime, which started out being even more hands-on and instructive than TOH, has gone the same route, so I no longer bother watching it. (Is it still on anymore?)Of course, the big budget projects get the big subsidies from the suppliers, so that's the direction things tend to head. Also, I suppose, there are some people who are actually interested in seeing stuff built that they could never afford, but I'm not one of them.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I am interested in seeing stuff I can't afford being built. As long as they show it actually being built. And I like to watch Hometime, which is a pretty good show now. And I like the new chick that never gets dirty and wears cute shorts all the time.
Strange that when TOH did the Katrina rebuild episode that they didn't revisit the house they previously did in NO. At least to see how it survived (or didn't) Katrina. The show tends to ignore their past.
I guess with them it's "Take the money and run."
"Strange that when TOH did the Katrina rebuild episode that they didn't revisit the house they previously did in NO. At least to see how it survived (or didn't) Katrina. The show tends to ignore their past. "They did, but it was just a walkby. Never got inside. I wonder if there were any bad feelings - the first Santa Barbara house that went on when his Bobness was there left some.jose c.
--
"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
Edited 5/29/2009 6:26 pm by El kabong
My error. Totally missed that episode.
Bump.
More stories please.
Both projects were clearly in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I'd add a decimal point. The Benson house had to be a $2 million project and the Brooklyn Brownstone was probably at least a million. Some nice plaster work, though.
I used to enjoy watching the show. Like NYW, it inspired non-professionals like me to build stuff. Now, just a bunch of yuppie trash spending too much $$ and pretending to be green by putting 50K into foam insulation and driving the old sink to Goodwill in the Escalade.
All the good old shows on PBS have been "Yuppified." TOH, as mentioned, used to have remodeling that I could afford and do myself. Now they go to a factory and have some beautiful old lumber they found in a river or in an old warehouse cut up into posts and beams using a computerized mill and then they put a 3 million dollar, 5000 sq. ft. addition on a 2 million dollar, 2000 sq. ft. home.
Remember "Crocket's Victory Garden?" Crocket wouldn't recognize it now. Galavanting all over Europe and even Australia to see posh gardens and learn about the best wine and the best olive oil. I guess people would be bored with the old and simpler and more down to earth shows. And I liked the old "Sesame Street" before it was....
I guess we've all grown up and out and over the top or something. Just like we aren't satisfied with a cup of coffee, gotta have a Frapacino double shot of froofrooberry, topped with whipped cream and a sprinkle of extra virgin cocoa shreds. (And I must confess that I like most micro-brewed beer better than a Bud Lite, despite the cute frogs. (We may have killed off all the frogs and bees in the real world, but at least we can still see them with human features on TV commercials!)) Okay, my keeper is here to wipe the foam off my mouth and put me back in my cage....
Great rant. ( my keeper is outside gardening) In fact this has turned into a very amusing thread. Probably not what the OP expected though.
I agree with most of what's said at that forum. TOH has turned into more of an infomercial than a how-to show. The last show (er... 'mercial) I watched featured installig a retrofit control system for the forced air heating system, at about $10, in a million $ home, so each room could be just the perfect tempurature. I seriously doubt I will ever run into such a scenario with my home or my customers' homes. Stuff like that is well suited for FHB, but not TOH. But money talks and I can't say I blame 'em for listening. But I still don't watch it anymore.
Hey, did anybody see the one when Bob Villa whacked a live outlet with the sledge hammer, when attempting to break out some plaster? LOL.. that was funny! You'll never see anything like that with the new crew - the whole show is too pre-scripted to let anything like that make it onto the air. Infomercial, I say!
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
The most ridiculous series involved the renovation of a really old house. In this series they renovated a house that was leaning over so badly that Norm installed a new front door with the door head leaning about 3" OUTWARD from the wall, the upstairs room had an unlevel floor about 6" over 15', but yet they spent the Owner's money on building a new extension! Probably by now, the HO has had to take out another mortgage to correct the leaning walls and unlevel floors.
TOH doesn't seem to be interested in the HO's best interest, only about walking away with a new series at the HO's expense.
Is it really the HO's expense? I've heard rumors that the HOs make out like bandits on the promotion stuff -- virtually everything donated.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I talked about this before, but there's an actor, I think his name is Marty Engels (comedian), that bought a house that TOH remodeled and put the latest computer technology in--locks were computer operated, music and lights were supposed to come on when you walked into the house, etc. It was so totally screwed up--he couldn't get into the house sometimes, lights didn't work, phones were tied into the system and often didn't work, heting and cooling were messed up, etc. So....
I also liked the big barn they rebuilt and left the old rubble foundation that was crumbling because they didn't have the money to replace it, or the time they had a termite inspection that missed all sorts of termite problems that they had to tear into and do a lot more extensive demo than they had planned.
I remember the Marty Ingels house. It was one of the first houses Bob Vila did after he got booted from TOH by Russ Morash for supposedly consorting with Sears. The house was on the beach in Malibu, with all the traffic problems on PCH that entails. Some Hollywood types were involved in various aspects, in addition to the usual assortment of contractors. Lots of fancy LA sort of stuff - high end wood doors, taking chains to cabinets to distress the wood, etc. He later blamed the whole problem on the salt air at the coast interfering with the wiring of the home automation.jose c.
--
"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
I think the problem with Marty Ingels's house had something to do karma.
When the show first started out, at the end of the episode series they would recap the expenses; i.e., HO v. donations. That's when Bob Villa was the host. That stopped during Thomas' tenure. Now, it's just the HO's expense.
IIRC the IRS considers those donations as income for the HO.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
I think that they get around the tax issue by having the production company lease the property.
The show that they did in Hawaii left the HO with a HUGE, unexpected refinancing problem. The donations fell far short of the expenses. What the heck! It wasn't their concern.
The Hawaii show just grated on me and my wife and we could not stand the HO
Chris-tre-on-na at least that is how she said it. Out of all the HO she still stands out in our minds because of how full of it she was. We still joke about her and compare current HOs to her saying at least they are not as bad as Chris-tre-on-na was. Do you remember what Island that house was on?Wallyo
Edited 5/31/2009 1:33 am by wallyo
Her house was on the Oahu. Honolulu is located on that island. On the section of the island the residents have an "attitude" unlike other areas. Her house is located several miles from the Waialae Country Club (Sony Open). Worst, the property is located on the ocean, only reef for about two hundred yards out before you reach the deep water. That probably reinforced that attitude.
I think the reason she received so little donations was because of exactly what you described, her attitude. I guess possible donors felt that HOs from that section of town don't need any donations. They have enough money.
She did have a BIG nose, didn't she?
Oh, I forgot to mention in my previous reply, the house is on the market (for the second time...I think) since the show was done. I don't know the listing price. Whatever they're asking, it's not worth it.
Big nose and upturned an awful lot. I think she was some type of artist, textiles or something. Been to the islands three times not Oahu though the Big Isle and Maui. You are right about attitude it does change part of Island to part of Island and Island to Island very fast.Wallyo
TOH doesn't seem to be interested in the HO's best interest, only about walking away with a new series at the HO's expense.
I agree. Anyone remember the Wickwire house? It was an old barn being converted to a house. They wanted save the barn but all that was saved was a few beams that spent the construction period lying in the grass.
Every show there was some unexpected expense. I thought by the end of the project we were going to see Mr. Wickwire hanging from the backyard tree.
Runnerguy
After weeks of slectively demolishing the barn to determine what they could recycle, I think the only thing they salvaged was a peg from one of the tenon joints. What a waste of the HO's money.
In these recessionary times maybe they could save production costs by combining TV shows. Mike Holmes could work on TOH's last years projects. I'd watch.
I remember seeing an episode where Norm or "Nam" started casing a window and the tree one could see through the window was green. When Norm finished the tree was bright orange. But he still wore the same shirt.
I think TOH should have one really realistic episode. The episode starts where Steve (or whoever the current host is) and Norm are on the sidewalk on front of the house waiting for let's say, the concrete truck which is supposed to drive up at the beginning of the show. The entire episode is spent with Steve and Norm making small talk, looking at their watches, calling the concrete company and wondering where the truck is. After 30 minutes the clarinet mercifully kicks in and everyone signs off, sans truck.
Runnerguy
I remember an episode where Nahm was assembling a staircase, using a special scheme of pre-mortised stringers and treads. He was demoing how he installed a tread, saying "I'll just tap the tread into place using one of these wedges to prevent marring the tread itself." He gave everything a few taps, then a few more, then he proceeded to wail the holy hell out of the wedge. Clearly something wasn't fitting right, but he didn't stop to check what was wrong but went ahead with the planned shot.Hometime, to their credit, as several times mentioned how something didn't work right -- how they had to play games with mis-ordered trusses, eg.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
watched a Homtime episode where they were trying to frame a gazebo roof. Thye showed all the incorrectly cut rafters piling up right there in the scene, not trying to hide any of it. Then they told how they had to call a framing contractor to learn that octagonal roof hips are cut at a run of 13 and not run of 17 like regular hips.
I appreciated their honesty.
There was a Hometime episode several years ago, where they showed how to build an office building in one day...laughing all the while.
I was pleased to see someone actually laughing at themselves for a change.
I remember when the first woman host left they showed alot of outakes, windows falling over, getting broken and other mayhem! That's why i prefer Under Construction, looks more realistic.
Brian
Ever watch the show (forget the name) where the big hulk of a guy (had upper arms bigger than my upper legs) runs a place called Orange County Choppers and builds mortorcycles and they screw things up. One time they were touring Intel and are in the clean room, and they are all moon suited and wearing masks and gloves and hairnets and the Intel guy hands the mortorcycle shop owner's son a glass etching of like 1000 computer chips and he just for grins, the son takes his hand and smashes it and the Intel guy is speechless. Finally the Intel guy says, "Each of those chips is worth $100 and each plate has 1000 of them on it and you just destroyed a whole plate!" Kid shrugs.
>Kid shrugs.<
that's just being a dick.
We have a Peavy guitar factory close by, really it between here and Laurel, but the same kid smash a high dollar Peavy guitar at the factory. They gave it to him. I hope a bill too.
One of these days he's going to pull some stunt like that when Big Daddy isn't around and someone's going to mop the floor with him. He hasn't needed to grow up so far because Daddy's always been there to bail him out. He's one of those kids who resents being in Dad's shadow, but also likes to fall back on Dad when the going gets tough. Dad's doing him no favors by always being there to catch him--needs to let his butt hit the floor a couple times!
It's all part of the show's "schtick." You guys don't beleive everything you see on tv, do you?
You got to love the fact that at the Wickwire house they made all sorts of mention to the pond in the backyard and that the TV made it look so great. In reality it looks more like a swamp from the road and that the house is right on the edge of the road. There was also no mention of the Concord Rod and Gun Club just a few 100 yards away or the Nashoba Brooks School even closer.
The biggest waste was the Carlisle house that cost millions. What a shame it's on one of the 4 busiest roads in town. It's currently on the market at a reduced price of 4 point something million last I knew. Fat chance they will ever see that kind of coin for it. Very rare to see lights on in the evening. TOH really thought that because of who they were, they didn't have to play by the rules. The BI put them in their place right quick. They cried a river of tears when the PD told them they were going to need a detail due to the parking and traffic issues. The intersection was a mad house for a while.
Norm however is a nice guy and is very polite around town. While his house is simple in design, I understand the attention to detail is amazing.
As for the program itself I really stopped watching it after the Carlisle project. IMO they lost the foundation the show was based on. Too much highend product installed into an old home that most people would not do. WGBH (PBS) wastes more money and truthfully I think that the taxpayers are getting shafted by them. They have this huge building along side the Mass Pike with TV monitors facing the highway. They are rarely working properly and a total waste of money. It's a very strange looking building that doesn't fit with the Brighton Landing project. If they were not so connected to Mayor Mumbles and the BRA I highly doubt they could have built it.
I saw that episode--it was funny--the typical thing where he's sitting in the cab of an excavator one minute and the next shot is the hole all dug and ready for the foundation. I also like on shows like Ron Hazelton where everything goes perfectly, no glitches. Lots of shows have that. I did see a New Yankee Workshop where Nahm had a problem once--I think he was bending wood and cracked it, but usually they have phenominally good luck--like the guy I used to work with (he'd chisel a mortise in a door and never clamp anything to reinforce the face veneers, sand and stain and varnish all in the same room (often in the same day) and never have problems. Always scared the #### out of me when he ran the salamander at the same time! (Or when he smoked while using flamable contact adhesive to glue down laminate!)
Thinking more on it, he did have his his share of screw ups I guess (though less than one might think)--I did see him blow out the face of a door on the third mortice he chiselled that day, and he did put a big scratch the length of a finished cherry veneer refrigerator panel after I saw him slide it over the bed of his saw that was covered with sawdust from god knows what--probably last thing he cut was a piece of steel or something! But rubbing it with a filthy thumb wet with saliva really helped! (NOT!)
But he still wore the same shirt.
That's one advantage to waering only one style/color of shirt (we hope it was at least washed between times!). [I do like the take off they do, advertising themselves, when they ask for a wardrobe change and a truck drives up with dozens of the same shirts they are wearing!]
As far as the concrete delivery--just showing real life; reality TV at its best. Enough of the pseudo survivor stuff with non-stop action, excitement and adventure, lets get to the nitty gritty of watching paint dry!
Edit: And as far as fitting stuff by driving wedges--his problem was using the wrong material and tool--needed steel log-splitting wedges and a maul!
Edited 5/28/2009 5:41 pm ET by Danno
Enough of the pseudo survivor stuff with non-stop action, excitement and adventure, lets get to the nitty gritty of watching paint dry!
Thank you. You just made me spray beer all over my monitor.
Runnerguy
i don't mind the location segments on ATOH, but i don't like the parts shot in their studio/clubhouse. esp the bit called what is it, or what's it for or whatever it's called, where one of them has... something... and the others 'guess' what it is, with the lamest attempts at humour.it also bugs me that TOH, even though it's 'commercial free' on PBS, is only 21 or 22 minutes long now.but SteveinCleveland called me kevin once, so that's cool!
"Nahm" has a book out now. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." Haven't read it yet. Just a FYI....
Nahm" has a book out now. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." Haven't read it yet. Just a FYI....Umm that book came out in like 1996 but thanks for staying on top of it.
Well, it shows how on top of things my liberry is... ;-)