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Discussion Forum

“warmboard” radiant subfloor

peterwm | Posted in General Discussion on September 20, 2007 03:34am

I’m bidding a new house. They spec. “Warmboard” radiant sub flooring. wich is 1 1/8″

plywood with a alunimum skin with grooves to accept pex tubing. I read the installation instructions and spoke to the manufacturer/supplier. They say to install the subfloor then install the pex, cover “high traffic” areas with masonite and continue framing (avoiding nailing the tubing). If any of you have used this product  what are your thoughts on the labor increase in framing and thoughout the project.

 


Edited 9/19/2007 8:35 pm ET by peterwm

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  1. User avater
    EricPaulson | Sep 20, 2007 03:50am | #1

    You should be talking to your plumber.

    That's who does our warm board install.

    Can even be done after sheetrock in most cases on single levels.

    [email protected]

     

     

     

     

    1. peterwm | Sep 20, 2007 04:31am | #2

      This product is the actual floor sheething

      1. davidmeiland | Sep 20, 2007 04:43am | #3

        I have not done Warmboard but looked into it carefully. One thing that would be challenging is laying out walls... snapping lines. We are plating a floor now and have lines popped all over the place. Then there is the need to protect the tubing during further work. You CAN arrange things so that interior walls are built before tubing is installed, but I don't think that's the usual. You will have to do some routing of channels to get the tubing everywhere you want it, i.e. to your manifold locations. They provide a template for that and possibly also the router bit. Your heating guy needs to use the correct PEX for the system, otherwise you risk too much noise.

        If I were doing it I would double my estimate of time to lay sheathing, i.e. one day to get it all down and a second day to make all the needed mods. Then add for a whole bunch of door skins to cover everything.

        1. peterwm | Sep 20, 2007 04:52am | #6

          Yes I was thinking same. Chalk probably won't stay to well on the aluminum. they do provide with a kit and bit (for $40,000.00 worth of material she said they might send me two bits) generous. the house is about 5600 sq. ft. So I need to think it through all the way to completion. Alot of masonite.

          Why did you elect not to use the product? 

      2. User avater
        EricPaulson | Sep 20, 2007 04:49am | #4

        That is not how I have done it nor is it good practice.

        1/2" subfloor. Warm Board over, finish over that.[email protected]

         

         

         

         

        1. mike_maines | Sep 20, 2007 04:51am | #5

          Ditto dat.

          I like staple-up even better.  Much easier to install finishes on.  Plus you don't get hot spots like you do with warmboard.

          1. hvtrimguy | Sep 20, 2007 07:09am | #8

            I did an addition where the radiant was under but instead of staple up it was snapped into these aluminum tracks that were scewed to the underside of the subfloor. helped spread the heat out very nicely. owner has been very pleased. not sure what the product name was - plumber spec'd it out and supplied it."it aint the work I mind,
            It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

          2. mike_maines | Sep 20, 2007 12:38pm | #9

            That's actually what we did on the project I'm working on now.  Thick aluminum tracks.  I can't think of the name either.

            Then (per the owners' request) we furred down 2" and used foil-faced foam to leave an air space, then open cell foam was sprayed under that.  Seems to be working good on the cold mornings we've been having here.

             

          3. Doobz26 | Sep 21, 2007 07:55pm | #11

            staple up might be easier... but you are looking at water temps up near 170-180 or so vs. water temps of about 100 or so with warmboard.  warmboard is MUCH more efficient....  

            Would the aluminum track product you used happen to be Raupanel?  Similar to warmboard.  more of a retrofit product I believe.  both products are pretty darn expensive. 

            Edited 9/21/2007 12:57 pm ET by Doobz26

          4. NRTRob | Sep 22, 2007 02:18am | #17

            Warmboard is a very low temperature emitter for sure. Also the install labor is less than practically any radiant installation method, if installed as a subfloor, tubing in before the walls, even if you account for doing some fixing later.But, with extruded aluminum in the joists, you are not looking at 170 to 180 temps. Everything depends on finish floor and heat loads of course, but under wood, with a typical 3/4" subfloor and a "typical" 20 BTU/sq ft load, HEAVY plates in the joists can be a 120 SWT. That's quite respectable.plateless sytems are much higher temperature of course, as are light plate systems.And heavy plates eats up some of the cost differential, and are a good 20 degrees hotter or more, and joist installs are TYPICALLY significantly more work. But, still they can be a fine choice.Finally, as heat loads drop, the choice of emitter becomes progressively less important as well, so the home and climate play a role in this decision making.-------------------------------------
            -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
            Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
            http://www.NRTradiant.com

        2. peterwm | Sep 20, 2007 04:55am | #7

          No sub floor. I'm reading the company specs. mud job, posibly DITRA membrane?, or wonderboard on the floor wich I have mix feelings about. 

        3. Doobz26 | Sep 21, 2007 07:52pm | #10

          Everything I've read about warmboard says it IS the subfloor.  If you have to install a subfloor and then install warmboard it sort of defeats it's whole purpose of being somewhat of a labor saver... (even though it does complicate some other issues). 

          1. User avater
            EricPaulson | Sep 22, 2007 01:11am | #13

            You are correct about warmboard being the subfloor.

            But it complicates all sort of thing being that it is installed when subfloor is normally install and the beat to c r a p as the structure is completed.

            See down a couple of post from Gene Davis is a similiar product to what I was thinking of.[email protected]

             

             

             

             

          2. djohan | Sep 22, 2007 01:24am | #14

            Warm Board is indeed a subfloor.  The company used to provide a layout of warmboard if you would provide them the plans.  Regarding the PEX tubing, it usually isn't installed until the walls are up and the house fully enclosed and in most cases, right before the floor coverings are installed.  Every PEX supplier that I have ever seen provides computer designed layout for the tubing.  Most rooms will come off a manifold so that the heat in the room can be individually controlled.

            Even unused chases in the WarmBoard is supposed to be filled with PEX although not hooked up to the heating system otherwise softer floor coverings will indent over the unfilled chases.

            While almost any floor covering can be used with PEX heating, non-engineered strip wood, particularly nailed-in-place floors, must be done in close cooperation with the PEX provider or you can get cupping and expansion in the wood bad enough that it will lift away from the subfloor.

            Dennis

             

             

          3. NRTRob | Sep 22, 2007 02:14am | #16

            I'm not sure I agree. Sure, sometimes you get hits, but most of the hits I see are during finish floor installations, and that can occur no matter when you put the tubing in.-------------------------------------
            -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
            Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
            http://www.NRTradiant.com

  2. User avater
    Gene_Davis | Sep 21, 2007 08:06pm | #12

    An alternative, which I believe will yield equal performance and make life a little easier when building, is to use the Uponor QuickTrack product, on top of conventional floor sheathing.

    View Image

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The panels are 1/2" thick, and receive 5/16" hePEX tubing, snapped into the aluminum grooves.

    1. NRTRob | Sep 22, 2007 02:12am | #15

      Hey Gene,Quik Trak isn't even close to the same performance. Has very similar construction issues in the end as well; tubing is still exposed on top of the subfloor. More labor, as you install on top of a subfloor and avoid walls.A heavy plate joist system is cheaper, performs better, and is probably easier to install on most projects than climate panel/quik trak. This is borne out with the MFG's own numbers regarding output, as well.-------------------------------------
      -=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
      Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
      http://www.NRTradiant.com

      Edited 9/21/2007 7:20 pm ET by NRTRob

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