We’ve been asked to install a Warmly Yours radiant mat in a bathroom floor.
http://www.warmlyyours.com/homeowner/floorwarming/tile.aspx
How is it running a notched trowel and thinset over the mat?
Never done this, and would appreciate any advice, warnings, tips, etc.
Someone’s got it in for me, they’re planting stories in the press Whoever it is I wish they’d cut it out but when they will I can only guess. They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy, She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me. I can’t help it if I’m lucky.
Replies
I've seen thinset done atop the mat products like the Warmly Yours and others. It is kinda trick and actually tough work for the tilesetter to get the top all beat nice and flat like you want. The mat ain't so user-friendly on the install end. It is a nice platform for the product maker to get you a cable array in a roll, though.
We do the Easy Heat (or EZ Heat) cable-only installs now, where you do your design, including making the spacing tighter or wider as you see fit, snap out a few lines and do some marks, then string the heat cable and staple it down, or use the clips. Exactly the same result in heat performance.
A floor leveling compound is then poured atop all, just enough to cover. Thinset and tile on that.
Michael Byrne, Mr Tile Emeritus, shows how in a nice picture sequence over at the John Bridge forum, somewhere.
I've always enjoyed they way Michael Byrne goes about teaching people to do tile. I had a chance to thank him for writing the book I learned from and have kept for a refference the past decade. He enjoys hearing when carps take to tile and always thought many finish carps have the skillset to do tile well with minimal instruction. He's just a good guy.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I've used both the mats and the cables ...
as the installer I prefer the mats.
no big deal troweling over either.
just don't slice thru the wires ... keep the screamer hooked up and you'll know if U do.
never have ... don't see how it's possible unless yer really trying ... or the tile setter is way too rough. Just make sure the mats are securely fastened ... especially the corners and edges ... it's a pain when someone skimps on securing it and it moves as U trowel.
Stretch it taut ... fasten ... trowel away.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi Jeff.>>>as the installer I prefer the mats.Is that because of less fussing around, or is there a performance advantage? We're considering the wire type because of a bunch of partitions and fixtures to work around. Should we be thinking of multiple mats instead of one big wire?Much thanks,Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
less screwing around.
There are situations that running the cable would be the better idea ...
like maybe in your case.
But generally I like the idea of laying out the mat then getting to work setting tile.
if the heated area can be thought of as one big square and/or rectangle ... I like the mat. Roll out ... cut and flip ... roll the other direction.
either way U go ... don't get to close to those fixtures.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Multiple mats might require multiple controllers, unless there is a way to link the mats together (I doubt it, but you never know).NuHeat will custom design a mat. Took about 10 days when we did it.
"Multiple mats might require multiple controllers, unless there is a way to link the mats together (I doubt it, but you never know)."You should be able to control more than one mat if the total wattage is withing the spec for the controller.Now that assume that both have the same wattage/sq ft and other specs..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Check out Lowes.com search "suntouch" we have used the product before without problems. You can link the mats together. The high $ T-stat is nice but the low end T-stat also works fine. Takes about a week to special order & the product is made in the USA!
Client's already spent the big bucks on the warmly yours system...should be here today! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I think multiple mats on a single controller would also assume a single temperature sensor, unless the controller was really slick and averaged multiple sensors.Plus you would have to get the control wires from the far mats across the other mats and into the controller.I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I haven't heard of it being done. But I certainly haven't seen every possible way of doing it either.I just send the measurements to NuHeat and let them figure it out.One thing I discovered though is that if you have a vanity up on feet without a toe kick, I wish I had extended the mat another 2" or so under the vanity.
"I think multiple mats on a single controller would also assume a single temperature sensor, unless the controller was really slick and averaged multiple sensors."No problem with that. What I am invisioning is a od shapped area and insead of using one custom mat that fills that area use a combination of several standard mats that cover that area. It is still one common area, on common tempature, on common controller."Plus you would have to get the control wires from the far mats across the other mats and into the controller." I would run them to the wall and then around..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
jeff, whats the screamer. Whats it a divice that tells you if you pierce a wire?
-Lou
Yes, the screamer is a small battery powered device that sends a small electric current through the electric heating cable during installation. The moment the heating wire is cut, a loud tone will 'scream' at you. Most heating mat/wire companies have these available as options. Can do the same thing with before & after checks using a multimeter.
I've done this over a NuHeat mat. Work carefully and use a plastic notched trowel.
Thanks all, sounds doable...I wonder if my old afro comb would work<G> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I've only installed Suntouch. I think it is essentially the same thing.
Take a resistance reading on the mat before you begin, after placement, and after thinset/tile. This will most likely indicate if you have damaged the mat.
I am presently using a new method. I place a second 3/4" subfloor in the bathroom, and use 1/4" hardibacker where the mat will be. I use 1/2" hardi elsewhere. I am burying the mat in 1/4" of highly modified thinset (for flexibility) with a smooth surface. Once that is dry, I will use a standard installation of tile in thinset over the hardi and the mat. Using a thin spacer on one side and the surface of the 1/2" hardi on the other allows screeding the thinset quite smoothly over the mat.
I also anchor the hardi only along the seams between hardi boards. This is to stabilize and prevent cracks at these points. The rest of the floor is free to move slightly below the entire installation as everything settles into place over time.
I just saw Mike Holmes from Holmes on Homes do this. It was a custom set up so not cheap. I can find the name of the show if you are interested...he has a good website.
Good luck!
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
if we can't fine the Holmes website ...
I can wear a tank top ... and try to flex as I wrongly criticize the last poor guy into the job ... as the home owners complain about getting the worst work by taking the lowest price.
but I'm not going to rebuild the rest of their house for free like the TV show ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Can I pierce your ear to complete the look? My nailgun is loaded and ready to go...
Jeff
Have you ever saw or did heat in the shower itself? We're remodeling a house and the electrician says that he's going to run the heat(floor heat) into the shower, is that possible or did I maybe hear him wrong?
Doug
I was on one remodel I remember where the initial plan was for electric heat in the shower ... can't remember how that one turned out.
do recall a couple that had radiant ... the non-electrified type ... run then some concrete poured over the whole master suite ...
I think some stuff out there is rated for a wet location ... not sure I'd wanna be the one to find out they were wrong?
My thots ... Uh ... run some hot water before U step in?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
oooh.!!!! a little testy there. must be a sore subject!
I figured you to be one of the guys he'd compliment!!"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Its best to thinset the mat to the floor and wait for it to set. Next day install tile as normal. Warmlyyours supply a tested to monitor the floor as you install, this way any problems show at that time before its all sealed in.
Smoooge it down with a flat trowel? & thanks for the heads up on the tester... Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Flat trowel, mind the edges is all. I've seen tile when install at the same time as the mat and it looks rough and I think its cause there is too much stuff going on at the same time.
Ohhh, I never have too much going on at the same time. LOL Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Easiest way is the way Gene mentioned. Lay the mat or cable, then use SLC. Let the SLC cure, then snap your lines and tile over your nice flat SLC.
If using large format tiles, 20" and up, laying the mat then thinsetting the tile all at once can be tough due to lippage if the mat isn't dead flat.
With large tile I much prefer SLC.
Mongo
Never used SLC, What's the drill around a resin base shower pan, toilet flange, walls, subfloor joints?We'll be using 18" tiles, so that lippage of which you speak is probably an issue.Oh, and any kind of SLC in particular? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
I've use Custom Level Quick RS and Laticrete 86. I think it's "86."No problem with either, I'd recommend both.Install a dam around the toilet flange and other openings so that the SLC doesn't make its way through the floor.Consider SLC primer if you think it would help. Depends on the situation. Find out what SLCs are sold locally, then take a peek at the manufacturer's instructions for your specific situation.Mongo
Can you give me a leg up on the damming? Walls, resin shower base, toilet flange, & HVAC vent. I'm guessing this stuff is fairly runny? We'll be building the floor up about 3/4". Will 1/2" of backer board and 1/4" of SLC do the trick?And, thanks for your time. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Little trick I learned from one of the Masters around here, when laying the mats on a wood floor, the area around the mat, line with 1/4" backer board. Then float thin set over the mat. Set tile the next day. Works like a Charm!
We've got to build the floor up 3/4" to plane with hardwood...That 1/4" trick might be helpful, if the HO ever gives me the mat plan! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
We always use self leveler over any type of warming system we install, whether it's mats, cables, or tubing.
It makes the job so much easier and allows for a cleaner installation.
sully
Do you have a particular favorite self leveler? Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Yeah, I think it's the TEC 323. Featheredge to 1.5".
Laticrete makes a very good product but it tends to be a little thicker and it doesn't seem to flow as well.
Make sure to follow instructions to a "t" no matter which one you get.
sully
How do I go about pouring the stuff? And is it really self-leveling? Thanks.Here's a pic of what's going on: Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Edited 8/20/2007 6:23 pm ET by Snort
Maybe this will work?<G> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Dagnabit! Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
Yes, it really is self leveling. Sometimes depending on the manufacturer, you will have to "pull" the material to help spread it out, similar to what you would do with concrete. I just use a garden rake. But this stuff is so thin that 90% of the time it will find it's own level.
I would make sure that you have 3 people on site doing the pour. One mixes, one carries and dumps, and the third "pulls" as necessary and watches for any escaping material.
You will need to dam around everything with wide masking tape, caulk any seams in subfloor, and maybe use 2x's at the doorways. This stuff will find most any small space and crawl through it.
sully
Thanks for the info, I've got a while to absorb it...HO hasn't even gotten the mat plan back from warmly yours... and they wanna know what's taking so long<G> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.