For 10 years i have been working on a vacation home for a fellow, Did the roof, fence, storm repairs, replaced inside walls after the plumber, built decks etc. Because i have the key i have been called to let the electrician, plumber, deliverymen, furnace, Relatives that cant find the key in. problem is none of these people show up when there supposed to and i have to wait for an hour or 2 or 3. I mentioned once i need to charge for time and i got blown off like whats the big deal about letting someone in if you get my work???.
but once i had to remove the front door so they could get a stove in, Gave the plumber my keys he locked them in the house etc,,,.
Got a call please come over Monday and get all your tools out and let the window guy in so he can replace all the windows.
Like a little beech im going O sure i will do that with a stupid smile on my face, Hang up and im like a deer in the headlights.WTF???.
I dont know if im fired or just getting taking advantage of.
I cant believe i was not given a chance at the windows.
Maybe i will get my tools and give the window guy my keys.
O i forgot he asked me to clear a space for the windows and take away the old gutters and boxes..
whats your take on this????
Replies
Get your tools, and dont look back. Let them clean up the gutters. They have been treating your like a tool, and it's your turn to kick them to the gutter
Maybe they don't want your tools to be stolen by the window guy?
Because i have the key i have been called to let the electrician, plumber, deliverymen, furnace, Relatives that cant find the key in. problem is none of these people show up when there supposed to and i have to wait for an hour or 2 or 3. I mentioned once i need to charge for time and i got blown off like whats the big deal about letting someone in if you get my work???.
I stand by my statement that these people are treating him like a tool, and he needs to fire them
I would as asked.
Then because they didn't ask for the keys back I would just keep them and wait to see what happens next.
Not sure from your description if you are being fired or just being warned about tools ( why do you leave tools there anyway?) .
Wait it out and see what happens.
Im not sure either, I keep extra tools in the Garage.
bobbys,I wouldn't be sure you were fired. It sounds to me like they are treating the window guy like another specialty sub, not unlike an electrician or plumber, and didn't think they were slighting you. I think you are viewed by them as their maintenance guy...the all-around go-to guy for small stuff.Maybe this would be a good opportunity for you to re-define their perception of you. I would not act offended, but would open a conversation with them, saying you would have really liked the opportunity to have competed for that window job, and that perhaps they don't realize how fully-skilled of a carpenter you really are.Steve
I agree , and find a way to work a monthly fee in for all the small PIA stuff done for them as well.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Better yet, a minimum number of hours per call. They are your customers, not your parents.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Bobby, I'm saying this with all due respect. Take your tools back to your own home and act like a professional. You are there for business. Smile and thank your customer for all the business, and go on your merry way.
They can't fire you because you don't work for them. You made your business personal, and that is mistake #1. I've made friends with a few of my customers, but the friendship and the business are completely separate. They call me for work, I take care of it in a professional manner, and bill them accordingly. If I ever need the professional services of any of my "Business Friends", I wouldn't expect anything less than the same.
So, even if it turns out you are not fired, you should ween yourself from that situation. Smile, thank them for all the business, and get on with your profession. And don't be surprised if they respect you for it, and even call you back for more work. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
very well written thank you ted
Maybe this would be a good opportunity for you to re-define their perception of you.
Not.
For small remod/repair guys, getting mentally 'pigeonholed' by the client as someone who only does what he hired you for on the first job is almost inevitable. You have to be extremely aggressive in fighting this right from the very beginning, and even then it doesn't always work. People see what they want to see, not what they're looking at.
If they hired you to do a small repair the first time, chances are better than 10-to-1 that's all they'll ever hire you to do in the future. OTOH, if they hired you to do a major remod the first time, you'll never hear from them when they need a light fixture or leaky faucet fixed. They'll call someone they think of as a handyman.
If the OP has let himself get pigeonholed as a handyman/maintenance guy by this client, the likelihood is strong he's gonna stay that way in their perception.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
If the OP has let himself get pigeonholed as a handyman/maintenance guy by this client, the likelihood is strong he's gonna stay that way in their perception.,,,,,. thanks, funny i was talking to 2 other guys and they had the same thing happen, They ran around for handyman stuff and the HO hired out the big remodels. To add insult to injury the "handyman" was called after to fix odds and ends
Thank you all for responding, a little update the window company is known for badmouthing other people. I have no proof but a guess would be they said i might not be able to handle this job or something. Im busy so im not losing any time but something funny was going on based on past experiences with others on this company. I doubt i would have cared if i was just asked by the HO. I was not professional in this by not billing and have no one to blame but myself. In my dream world i was thinking i would get a Christmas card with a thanks and a few bucks. It does work 2 ways too.. When my customers call me i pick up the phone
Bobby, getting mentally pigeonholed by clients happens to everybody. It happens to me, and I've been aware of the phenomenon for years and I fight like hell from the beginning of every new-client relationship against letting it happen. In my case, mostly what happens is if my first job for someone involves plumbing, or heavy landscaping, or roofing, well, that's the only type of work they'll think of calling me for.
To use marketing-speak, if I want to 'position' myself as a professional builder & remodeler, I dare not--DARE not--do a small service/repair job for a new client without acting like it's an imposition on me, interfering with my real work. The client has to understand I'm only doing it to help him out because I expect him to give me some real work on down the road sometime soon.
I don't know what your goal is. Being a good handyman or local agent for absentee owners can be an excellent business, and it's less risky in a lot of ways than doing major remods. If you get a good client list set up, you can make more per day than guys charging twice your hourly rate (do 8 or 9 service calls in a day--and bill the standard two- or three-hour minimum for each), plus the monthly retainer fee. Doing that sort of business can be very nice, and in cottage areas, there is always a need for it so you won't starve if you do good work.
But if you aspire to building and remodeling, stop playing doorman, unclogging toilets, and swapping the storm windows for the screens twice a year.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"But if you aspire to building and remodeling, stop playing doorman, unclogging toilets, and swapping the storm windows for the screens twice a year."That is right.
It seemed that after several years of doing this, about 60-70% of my clients assumed that since i know the house well, I was the natural choice to take care of it, so I had seven houses to deal with little stuff on as caretaker. I let the mowing out and did the snow plowing and other misc.But after that many, it started to impose on my time and attention/focus as a contractor so I turned them all loose. If I could have kept them all happy for another couple years, it would have been a good retirement income and job to just run around checking places and calling people
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If I could have kept them all happy for another couple years, it would have been a good retirement income and job to just run around checking places and calling people
Yeah. But you'd get bored.
Wouldncha?
Lol....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
He will never be bored where there are dorks like me posting here!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
everybody has a purpose in life.even the screwy guys;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Was I fired????
33 posts so far, and no one has suggested, "Why don't you ask the homeowner?"
Then what would we do, sit around waiting for the response? I like playing the guessing game. :D--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
That 'fly off the handle' game is a good one, too.
"What's an Arkansas flush?......It's a small revolver and any five cards."
There was a fly on the handle?--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
What fun is that? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Dovetail mentioned that he would have asked the homeowner... In post #4.
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Guess I missed that one in between all the gossiping. :)
Call them back and say that it will be #### to haul off the gutters and YY after the first 1/2 hour waiting for the window guys.
And ask if you should leve the key with the window guys?
Then see what they say.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I let this happen but i never was sure how to send a bill for an hour of time????? But then it all added up.. Like what do i do send a bill for, What 25 bucks????. What would i write on it , Service for opening door???
bobbys.Bill it as "short time".KK
1. Do you do windows?
If so, does client know you do windows?
2. Did you already get paid to clean up the old gutters etc?s
3. Did you have an agreement that you could keep your extra tools there? (even if it was verbal)
I'd call client and ask why they did not give you an opportunity to look at the windows. That should be enough of a lead in to find out more info. If they want you out and are not going to give you any info, then go, get your tools, clean up the gutter stuff, etc if you were paid to clean it up (otherwise, tell them if they are firing you to pay someone else to clean it up) and whatever you do, dont let the window guys in.
Make sure you go there when they are there, get all your tools out and hand them the keys.
If you let the window guy in and they do something bad, you will be in court testifying that you let them in. (Plus you would not get paid to let em in)
If you let the window guy in and they do something bad, you will be in court testifying that you let them in. (Plus you would not get paid to let em in)<<<<.
Very good point i never thought of that, I might be acting as there agent of sorts
"I let this happen but i never was sure how to send a bill for an hour of time????? But then it all added up...Like what do i do send a bill for, What 25 bucks????. What would i write on it , Service for opening door???"
Time & Travel to provide access for plumber.
Service Call, Minimum Charge: $75
Thank you for the business, your prompt payment is appreciated
-Norm
"i never was sure how to send a bill for an hour of time?????"As a contractor, I have a minimum two hour charge, Even if I am only on the job fifteen minutes, the time it cuts out of my day for whatever else is on the deck is worth at least that much
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Two hours is a good policy. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
And ask if you should leve the key with the window guys?Then see what they say.<<<<<.
i was thinking about giving the window guy the key
Don't listen to any of this BS! Just fly off the handle! You'll feel happier. It is a cathartic experience
bobby..... you call your lawyer , you get a bill
you visit your dentist, you get a bill
you talk to your accountant you get a bill
i bet you weren't sending him a bill each time , were you ?
wanna be treated like apro.... gotta behave like one
wanna be a doormat, behave like one...
and i'm only telling you this 'cause i like you
Ditto what Mike said. The guys in resort areas call it "property management". They charge a percentage each month and a set hourly rate for services rendered. If you have others that you are currently servicing like this, it might be a good idea to send out a memo alerting everyone that you will no longer be able to do these "favors" free due to the high cost of staying in business. Create a small pricelist and explain that any service rendered will be billed COD. You might find out that some of your clients actually call you more often. If the clients are like me, they don't call you except in dire emergencies because they don't want to take advantage of you. Once they know you will accept a reasonable payment for these type services, they'll lose their guilt and call you more often. The cheapskates will do the opposite and stop calling you. I call that "win-win". Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I totally agree. He was fired because he did not alert the owners to the fact that the extra time it cost him to handle problems was important to him and was to the benefit of the HO. They therefore did not place a value on what he was doing for them and that his clock was running, whether he was actually doing some work himself or just being a trusted agent who would coordinate subcontractors.
bobby..... you call your lawyer , you get a billyou visit your dentist, you get a billyou talk to your accountant you get a billi bet you weren't sending him a bill each time , were you ?wanna be treated like apro.... gotta behave like onewanna be a doormat, behave like one...and i'm only telling you this 'cause i like you<<<<<. Thank you for your honesty its mucho appreciated. I think the last time this happened was in high school when the hot goil led me around. I was her doormat. But she was HOT;]
I don't know if you were fired or not
But whenever I've been fired I just say on my resume "I was promoted to a position outside the company"
If there are other tradespeople there,don't store your tools there, you are asking for trouble.The next time you talk to the owner, tell him that you are not always available to run over and open the place up,you have other obligations.Tell him that the next time you go there to do the gutters you can stop at home depot and buy him a combination lock box.If he agrees,charge him for your road time, store time,the lock box, and gutter work.
Around here, the semi-caretakers get 50-100 bucks a month just to "hold the keys" like you do and to drive by and make sure windows and doors are closed before a storm. Anything else is an extra charge.
I'd ask to find out why you were asked to remove your tools. Maybe he is just thinking about protecting you, so the window guy won't steal them
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
" so the window guy won't steal them"
Says a lot for the window guys if that's the case! buic
I was a little tongue ion cheek, but I think bobby has a problem with both the customer and the window guys
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If the guy says yes you were fired...
don't forget to tell him you were leaving anyways....
You teach people how to treat you.
you have taught this "fellow" that he can make all sorts of demands from you and you will obey.....like a dog.
are you a dog?
didn't think so
Whether this client fired you is irrelevant....you need to move on.
you will never get paid for your "little favors" in the future because you have never demanded payment in the past. this guy is abusing your good character.
If you were ok with this situation you would've never posted this question on breaktime. Obviously you're not. and i haven't read any posts that say that this fellows behavior and attitude towards you are ok.
The only thing worse than being used for 10 years is being used for 11.
pull the plug
toolman65
Toolman was absolutely correct
well not the only thing, there is 12, 13, 14 etc etc.
I wouldnt burn the bridge just yet. I think a polite phone call is in order though.
"y,know bob, we've had this relationship for 10 or so years so it makes me wonder why you never inquired about purchasing new windows through me....."
life is short, memories are shorter. in this business you need to constantly remind people of your capabilities or you'll be passed over for another