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Was it the gold screws or phillips head

geoffhazel | Posted in Construction Techniques on November 22, 2009 11:48am

I am not having too much luck with fasteners lately. I needed some screws for a small under house framing job, that could handle 2x stock. I picked out the 3 inch “gold screws” at Home Depot with Phillips heads. While using my impact driver, I noticed I was tearing up bits at an alarming rate. It seemed like the screws would start to strip, and that would make the bit spin and start to strip, and the next thing you know, I have a bit that is worthless, and a screw still sticking out an inch.

I switched to a regular drill and managed to get most of the remaining part of the job done, but I haven’t had that experience with the impact driver before, although I haven’t used these gold screws before either.

Although they cost quite a bit more, I think I’ll opt for the decking screws next time, either the ones that come with their own blue bit, or some square heads.

Are those “gold screws” just garbage, or was I using them for a purpose they were not intended?

Reply

Replies

  1. User avater
    IMERC | Nov 22, 2009 11:50am | #1

    return the screws...

    and get the ones Lowes has to offer...

     

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!! What a Ride!


    Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

     

    "Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"

  2. Piffin | Nov 22, 2009 01:39pm | #2

    google up GRK canada for their reisser screws

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  3. DonCanDo | Nov 22, 2009 04:15pm | #3

    I haven't seen the "gold screws" you're referring to.  If they're brass, they're not intended for framing.

    The deck screws that Home Depot carries are star drive.  I think you can find the "combo-drive" at Lowes.

    1. User avater
      xxPaulCPxx | Nov 22, 2009 10:06pm | #16

      Phillips used to make the "Deckmate Square Driv" deck screw exclusively for Home Depot. Within the last year though, they changed and now sell that screw exclusively through Lowes.I have no idea of the performance of the new HD screw, but I know the "Deckmate Square Driv" was capable of pulling itself nearly though a sandwich of DF 2x, /12" ply, 2x. It would also tear 16ga. strap rather than shear off the head.The "Deckmate Square Driv" is a tough #### #### screw!

      Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!

      Look, just send me to my drawer.  This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.

      1. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 12:09am | #19

        "a sandwich of DF 2x, /12" ply, 2x. "What are you paying out there for 12" plywood these days? 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. User avater
          xxPaulCPxx | Nov 23, 2009 12:25am | #20

          It's not the material costs, it's the labor to lift those darn things that kills ya!

          Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!

          Look, just send me to my drawer.  This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.

  4. User avater
    BarryE | Nov 22, 2009 05:01pm | #4

    gold screws=glorified drywall screws

    check the size. stay with the deck screws..or grk


    Barry E-Remodeler

     

  5. User avater
    Jeff_Clarke | Nov 22, 2009 05:01pm | #5

    GRK RSS stardrive - second vote here.   And the gold is usually gold-galvanized.

    http://www.grkfasteners.com/

    View Image
  6. restorationday | Nov 22, 2009 05:15pm | #6

    In addition to not using the gold general purpose screws for framing work you need to pick up some 'impact ready' bits for your impact driver. They are black colored and much harder. Dewalt makes them, I am fairly sure you can't get them at the big boxes, I bought a bunch in a package deal from a tool supply.
    -Day

  7. frenchy | Nov 22, 2009 05:19pm | #7

    Predrill.  if you do the screw will go in easier and hold better

    1. bski | Nov 22, 2009 05:49pm | #8

      ive never had a problem with the torx gp screws from menards.  theyre made by midwest manufacturing.  i have never twisted one off, even the 3 3/4''

  8. DanH | Nov 22, 2009 05:56pm | #9

    I forget the brand, but about 15 years ago the gold color was the trademark, more or less, of a good brand of deck screws. They were so hard that they'd shatter your bit before they stripped out. But there's no real way to trademark the gold color, so these days you can't go by that.

    Unfortunately, short of paying premium $$ for GRKs or some other hoity-toity brand, you can't buy screws of reliable quality anymore. Even a brand you had good experience with last week is likely to suck this week, because they switched Chinese suppliers.

    A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
    1. AitchKay | Nov 22, 2009 06:36pm | #10

      " short of paying premium $$ for GRKs or some other hoity-toity brand..."When I'm on my back in a crawlspace, GRKs seem pretty cheap -- avoiding what the OP went through is well worth any premium paid.Also, I've never found bits that even came CLOSE to matching the crisp-edged quality and longevity of Apex bits, or bit holders with the reliability and magnet strength of their holders.The big boxes don't carry anything that competes with Apex. I've been using them for over 30 years now. The only other bit I use is GRK Torx -- I like the color-coding for fast bit selection, and I haven't had a problem with stripping, so I go with them. I've never compared them to Apex, though.AitchKay

      1. DanH | Nov 22, 2009 06:46pm | #11

        Agreed. When I'm doing onesies-twosies, and especially when every screw HAS to work, I reach for my stash of GRKs. But I'd never want to pay the freight for a deck made with them.
        A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter

        1. Piffin | Nov 22, 2009 06:57pm | #13

          "I'd never want to pay the freight for a deck made with them."Your customer is supposed to be paying the bill.They can pay me for quality screws. or they can pay me for the extra labour to fiddle and fool around wasting my time on cheap screws. Bottom line ends up the same. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. DanH | Nov 22, 2009 10:41pm | #17

            The work I do is either DIY or pro bono, so either I'm buying my own materials or they're being bought by some charity that pinches every penny. (Free labor is really cheap, vs materials.)
            A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter

        2. AitchKay | Nov 22, 2009 07:11pm | #14

          Yep. Unless you're using trimheads -- GRK's the only TH I dare use anymore.Last deck, though, I was using some ceramic-coated Torx-drive from Lowes. Grip-Rite? Grip-Tite? They worked fine.My only complaint about Torx is that once you've been spoiled by square-drives that will stand out horizontal for 3", it's frustrating to go back to having to use two hands.AitchKay

          1. DanH | Nov 22, 2009 10:42pm | #18

            Yeah, if the Torx screws would stay on the driver they'd be the cat's PJs. But they're worse than Phillips in that regard.
            A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter

          2. User avater
            coonass | Nov 23, 2009 12:25am | #21

            Dan.That's what the bit holder with the slide on it is for.KK

          3. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Nov 23, 2009 12:26am | #22

            That only works with #8 and smaller screws - it's no good on #9 and up, or washer head screws.

            Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!

            Look, just send me to my drawer.  This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.

          4. User avater
            coonass | Nov 23, 2009 03:14am | #25

            Paul,Mine shoots 9 which is mostly what we use.You must have a little one. :)KK

          5. DanH | Nov 23, 2009 02:09am | #23

            Yeah, I've used those, but they don't really hold the screw at "attention" like a square drive does. (Maybe if I added a little blue pill it would help.)
            A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter

        3. User avater
          Luka | Nov 23, 2009 04:41am | #26

          With the cost of screws these days, I thought they were ALL made of gold.....It's all fun and games, until someone puts an eye out..You are always welcome at Quittintime

          1. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Nov 23, 2009 04:07pm | #27

            The Chinese have learned to turn lead into gold colored screws ...

          2. User avater
            Luka | Nov 23, 2009 06:01pm | #28

            Good one.=0)..It's all fun and games, until someone puts an eye out..You are always welcome at Quittintime

    2. User avater
      Sphere | Nov 22, 2009 06:47pm | #12

      The way I understood it in yrs past, was that "gold" was yellow zinc or sometimes cadmium plating.

      Then along comes Tn coated drill bits, I think that was Titainium Nitride or possibly cobalt, which I thoought was blue.

      And today, yellow is just zinc on screws, and they rust just as fast as black oxide , that I have seen, or dang close to as fast.

      I swear the HF compressor I recently bought had zinc fittings plated with brass, or some other cheap pot metal with a brass look alike plating. I had to change them all out for real metal.

      I've gone ceramic now, and Stainless for almost everything.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

      Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

      PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB

       

      1. AitchKay | Nov 22, 2009 07:25pm | #15

        "The way I understood it in yrs past, was that "gold" was yellow zinc or sometimes cadmium plating."That was my understanding, too.I just looked it up, and here's what GRK says about their current gold coating:"GRK's Climatek™ coating consists of a total of six layers of various materials, including three layers of zinc-polymer.Climatek™ has been tested for salt spray resistance, and more importantly, for Kesternich durability. Kesternich cycles are a more advanced way of testing a coated material. Each Kesternich cycle simulates heat, cold, wind, water, salt as well as a variety of other elements, whereas salt spray merely uses salt water for its tests.Climatek™ passed 29 Kesternich cycles, making it the most advanced coating of its kind."Elsewhere they say,"Salt spray testing has exceeded 1,200 hours and 30 Kesternich cycles."AitchKay

  9. Snort | Nov 23, 2009 02:46am | #24

    I don't know about "those gold screws" you been using... I get these gold ones at my lumber yard:

    http://wedo.hillmangroup.com/viewitems/deck-screws/flat-head-star-drive-powerpro-screws?&forward=1

    they make a 3" trim screw, too.

    http://www.tvwsolar.com

    We'll have a kid

    Or maybe we'll rent one

    He's got to be straight

    We don't want a bent one

    He'll drink his baby brew

    From a big brass cup

    Someday he may be president

    If things loosen up

    1. webted | Nov 23, 2009 07:59pm | #29

      I just picked up a few boxes of the Hllman deck screws (Torx head) for attaching underlayment to a subfloor. "Bronze ceramic coat" is what it says on the box. They work pretty good, although I still found it quicker to predrill - they require a lot of pressure and a slow start to get them to bite. I don't need 400 Torx tattoos on my off hand to go with the 2000 little cross shaped scars...-t

      1. Snort | Nov 23, 2009 08:09pm | #30

        Even with the little baby bosch impactor, I've got no problems... I know what you mean about the scars... my yankee screwdriver somehow went into a sheetrocked wall cavity after it's last slip... it felt so good patching that hole over<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com

        We'll have a kid

        Or maybe we'll rent one

        He's got to be straight

        We don't want a bent one

        He'll drink his baby brew

        From a big brass cup

        Someday he may be president

        If things loosen up

        1. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 08:55pm | #31

          I've had a LOT of Yankee phillips stab wounds in my left hand 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. Snort | Nov 23, 2009 09:05pm | #32

            Yeah, the yankee screwdriver, the gift that kept on giving<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com

            We'll have a kid

            Or maybe we'll rent one

            He's got to be straight

            We don't want a bent one

            He'll drink his baby brew

            From a big brass cup

            Someday he may be president

            If things loosen up

          2. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 09:11pm | #33

            I praise the day I got a cordless and gave up on using that for installing cabinets. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          3. AitchKay | Nov 23, 2009 09:47pm | #34

            You are obviously SO wrong. Just last May, FHB (ALWAYS on the cutting edge) paid for a tip from some guy waxing eloquent about the virtues of his Yankee:"I just love the feeling of political and environmental correctness that comes over me when I get out my old Yankee"(I'm not making this up! -- H)"it's quieter and safer,""It is FASTER than a cordless driver, and I have JUST AS MUCH DEPTH CONTROL, IF NOT MORE."Then he goes on to put the icing on the cake, telling of how he hired a machinist to weld a 1/4" hex bit holder onto a Yankee shank, probably paying at least $50 for an item that has been on the market for at least 35 years (I've still got my old bronze Apex version), and which is currently offered in three different Yankee sizes by at least three different manufacturers -- see your McFeely's catalog.AitchKay

            Edited 11/23/2009 1:48 pm ET by AitchKay

          4. Piffin | Nov 23, 2009 11:27pm | #35

            I have extensions, adaptors, and nut drivers for mine too - someplace. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          5. JohnCujie | Nov 24, 2009 03:58am | #36

            I think every cabinet from the 70's and 80's has as yankee mark somewhere.John

          6. Piffin | Nov 24, 2009 05:11am | #37

            and a drop of blood 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

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