We currently have a year-old washer in the laundry room on the second floor of our home. I’ve explained this here before but for those of you who have short memories (like me), it’s a Whirlpool Duet front-loader washer and it REALLY spins fast, vibrating the immediate surrounding areas of the home. After some back and forth with Whirlpool they agreed to come out and get it, and refund me the full purchase price (frankly I was amazed).
The problem is that I asked Whirlpool which washer model would work on the second floor. They said none of their models are designed to work on a second floor. And they said I’ve already tried everything they can think of (leveling several times, anti-vibration pads). But then how the heck do those showcase homes, with washer/dryer on the second floor, make it work?!
Anyway, I really need some help. There’s no way I’m moving my laundry room to the first floor or the basement so please don’t bother tossing that out as a suggestion. If that was the only solution then I’d just live w/the vibration. But I refuse to believe there’s not either a) a better anti-vibration solution for our current Duet machine, or b) there’s a model that will work for us up there.
Thoughts???
Thanks! – Rob
Replies
So is it the altitude above grade that makes the washer vibrate? If you moved it to the first floor it would not? Condos all over Fl with second and third story laundy rooms. I have a 100 yr old home converted to a tri-plex with a W/D on the second floor and it vibrates the same as the one on the first floor. The difference is that you do not appear to notice the vibration if you are not underneath it. Do the laundry during the day.
You need to stiffen the floor somehow. I know in response to other queries of this sort a number of suggestions have been made, from pouring a (relatively) thin concrete pad to reworking the floor joists. What works for you depends on what works for you.
I have done two where I was involved in the design and included the laundry on the second floor.
I did the layout so that we had a closet under it on the first floor, with a lower cieling for extra sound insulation and I doubled the joists directly under the appliance location, not for strength, single would take care of load, but for mass to absorb vibrations. Then we built up a very short platform - an inch or three....with more buffers above the floor.
Have not heard a complaint, except that one owner has bought three different sets of WD trying to please his wife for style. Don't know why - the housekeeper does all the laundry. Sure is a bear of a job carrying those units up and down stairs every year or two to replace them.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Another thing is that we routinely use strapping for cieling joists here, which is not done in many locations. This strengthens the floor system as a whole but it also interferes with sound and vibration transferring thru the house.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
and as I think more about all this, I realize that since you ALREADY have the place built, most of these solutions are worthless to you.
So to solve the problem with thought...
hmmmm
mass absorbs vibration.
Foam helps too, aas does strenfthenening the system.
I would think about maybe openning the cieling below, then glue and screw a few layers of sheetrock to the bottom of the laundry subfloor. This adds mass.
Then foam for a few layers, then blocking between bottoms of joists for laod/vibration sharing.
then claose up the cieling and refinsh.
All this is theory only so let me know how it works
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks guys. The house is already finished, we've been in here for a year. So the thought of tearing things apart to strengthen the floor don't appeal to me at this stage. For those of you that have washers on second (normal, non-reinforced) second floors - what recent model did you install?
Thanks, Rob
Dare I say - one is a Duet?SeriouslyThe other has been a Duet in one of its incarnations
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I got a set of Kenmore Elite's. Had them for almost 5 years.
I have no idea what these people are complaining about.
It's on the first floor, but I have no vibration or noise issues.
I suspect some of these complaints come from washing with an unbalanced load. One must load these things so they have a chance to properly equalize the distribution of clothes for the spin cycle.
When I worked in the medical lab, we had to centrifuge tubes and things all the time. If the thing was not loaded equally, they'd bounce off the table. Properly loaded, they're silent.
That could be a factor. Overloading does it as well. I have heard washing machines occasionally act like a gorilla and a jackrabbit having a sex partyLike with investing, being unbalanced or overweight in the wrong areas can make a lot of noise, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for all that.
I am doing the same here and have the joist bays open underneath.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"have the cold, comfortably numb"
For Darcy.
> I am doing the same here and have the joist bays open underneath.Having a sex party with a gorilla and a jack rabbit??
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
"Having a sex party with a gorilla and a jack rabbit??"
No but the girl from the ez fil stop is on her way over in an hour.
Living in the woods has it's up sides, every one is horny, it is just a matter of selection.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"have the cold, comfortably numb"
For Darcy.
set her on the edge of the washer and step up to the entertainment..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
remember how when you were here, sometimes we laughed 'till we couldn't catch our breathe...I'm never going to be able to look at a washing machine again without breaking out laughing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
it's an interesting method...
might as well put all that shaking to good use....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Rez sez
this is a family site.
First strike, coming up!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
sorry..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
better now???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I meant for both uv us
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ut-oh...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
stop in..
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=80024.26
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
might as well put all that shaking to good use....
We just got a Siemens (read: Bosch) front-load W/D pair.
We don't have any undue throbbing (10 years of marriage will do that to you), as they're located on concrete. But when that washer spins up to 1200 RPM, lemme tell you - it sounds like someone's warming up a LearJet in the utility room!
Jason
Interesting replies. Including the jackrabbit.We had a Kenmore top loader in our second floor laundry. Subsequently replaced that with an LG top loader a few years ago.The top loader made noise, but on;ly noticeable if you were in the room under the laundry room. The Lg front loader is quiet, even at top spin speed.I built my house with TJIs, which should make vibration matters worse.Laundry room it tile over cb over underlayment over subfloor over TJIs.For others that have had this problem, under the footprint of the washer I've laid down a 1/4" sheet of mass loaded vinyl. If that didn't do the trick, on top of that first layer add a layer of half-inch cement backer board, then another layer of mass loaded vinyl, then either a layer of CB or a layer of ply. Sit the washer on the CB or ply. Raises the washer about 1-1/2".Mass loaded vinyl...it's a good thing.Be Martha, Mongo
Sphere just joined the strapping crowd!Hey- everybody...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What you need is the right combination of mass and decoupling. How high off the current floor can you lift the washer without problems? That sets the critical parameter.The simplest way to solve the issue is to buy a 3" sponge foam pad the size of the washer footprint, and lay it on the floor. This should be soft like a cushy bed. Then buy a 1" thick steel plate the same size and lay it over the foam. The washer goes on the steel plate, its feet resting on small squares of dense carpet pad.A lead plate will be quieter because it is acoustically "dead." It can also be thinner because lead is denser. The steel is cheaper and widely available. If you do this, watch your fingers!Bill
Edited 10/15/2006 10:17 pm by BillBrennen
Bill,
Where are you getting a "cheap" 1" thick steel plate? I need to move closer to you.
And who's gonna carry a 32" x 32" steel plate 1" thick up a set of stairs to place it under a washing machine?
Sorry for the confusion. I edited my message. I meant that the steel was cheap in comparison with other suitable metals one might use.I picture one robust appliance dolly with stair climbers and 3-5 strong guys to get it into place. Doing the plate method has got to be cheaper than tearing out the ceiling, adding joists or drywall, repairing said ceiling, etc.Billbe proofreading my posts better
291 pounds for a 32" by 32" plate of 1" steel. About same as an iron bathtub, but a less awkward shape. FWIW.Bill
I have a frigidare f/loader that is on the main floor. the supporting wall below is right under the machine.
I also put a layer of hardie backer, thin set to the 5/8and 3/4 sub floor, and put porcelain tiles thin set to the hardie. does not vibrate.
However it took several tries to get the feet adjusted so they had the same tension(weight?) to the floor. even if it was level, if the tension on a foot was not correct, it would vibrate. Bud
But then how the heck do those showcase homes, with washer/dryer on the second floor, make it work?!
Ever do a load of laundry when looking at a house?
Have you considered placing one of those thick rubber pads of the sort used by checkers at the supermarket under the appliances? That would dampen vibration somewhat, decouple the feet of the machines from contact with the floor/joist system, thus decreasing noise transmission and discourage tendancy for an unbalanced machine to "walk around" during spin cycle.
BruceT
I suspect that the problem is more lack of floor stiffness than lack of damping. Probably the best retrofit solution would be to screw down some tile backer (or possibly expanded mesh) over a layer of thinset. If the area below is accessible, gluing and screwing a sheet of plywood to the joists would help a lot too, though simply adding bridging would also help.Not so important on front loaders, but in top loaders, if the floor isn't stiff the unit itself will warp slightly with each vibration and the fasteners inside will work loose, making matters worse. Same thing can happen if the leveling feet aren't exactly level, with equal weight all around. So on a unit that seems to have gotten worse over time it's a good idea to pop it open and check the structural fasteners.But first thing the OP should do is simply grab the unit near a top corner and try to rock it side-to-side and front-to-back. (Put a little muscle into it.) If ANY motion can be detected then the feet need adjustment.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I didn't read all the responses but all you need to do is get a reasonable quality TOP loader. If you read the mfg recommendations on any front loader it calls for a very high amount of floor support - anywhere between 3 to 5 times what a normally framed floor will support - only concrete slabs on grade meet these requirements. A normally framed floor supports between 50 to 100 PSF. Anytime I have a home buyer ask about putting a front loader on the 2nd floor, I say something like "that an easy question - DON'T do it.
I'd like to propose a defferent approach.
Form up a ~32" square with 2x4s on the floor, with shower pan liner under it (thick flexible PVC sheet).
Pour it full of the "blue bag" fiber-impregnated concrete mix; pull off the 2x4s.
Now put the washer on it. The mass of the concrete should lower the natural frequency of the spin cycle, and the PVC membrane should float the concrete just enough to isolate the high frequencies.
If it works, inquiring minds would love to know.
Forrest - got a laundry room upstairs on a stone (rough slate) floor in an old house; no vibration problems
I would also lean this way. I was involved w a bunch of diesel/pump installs. Big time vibration issues. We would pour a large base of concrete, and install the equipment on dampers (springs). The dampers are easy to buy, come in a million styles, don't cost much.
H
Lord is a big company that makes a milion types, and has a little "vibration calculator" cardboard slide thingy - probably online now.
Forrest
just go to grainger and get some spingy thing. Front loader top of line washer, I could live with the vibration.
This problem has been discussed frequently in GardenWeb's laundry room forum. This group is very serious about all things concerning laundry. I found it while researching washers and dryers.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/laundry/
You can run some searches and maybe find some solutions. Good luck.
I forgot to mention that the search box to use is at the bottom of the page, not the one in the top header. I just ran a search "second floor" and got quite a few threads.
Gary
Wild and crazy idea here.... How about hanging it from the ceiling?
I am imagining the machine sitting on a piece of plywood, that is suspended above the floor just an inch, from steel cables. Then, soft foam pads al around.
I think this arrangement would absorb any vibrations.
Problem is, the ceiling is probably more lightly built than the floor -- not at all designed for that much load.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Gee IMERC would like that, it would be kinda like a $ex swing;-)