Q: How deep should the waste line for a house be as it exits through the basement wall?
As I was poking around outside my house after a long winter, I noticed a small hole near the foundation that looked like an animal burrow. Hmmmm…… Do animals line their burrows with PVC? I dont think so. It seems that the waste line for my house exits through the foundation wall near the surface of the ground and it has broken.
Before I call a plumber to repair this, I am wondering just how deep of a mess I will be in.
Should the waste line be below the frost line as it exits through the basement wall? Will there be major excavation and yard tearing up? Would frost heave have broken the waste line or could it have broken due to the ground around the house settling. (The house is about 5 years old). The pipe seems to have a clean break through it.
I realize it is hard to diagnose this long distance but I appreciate any input and advice.
Thanks.
Replies
I am not a plumber, I believe the height will depend on the height of the sewer line in the street, and the distance from your wall to it.You need a certain amount of pitch downhill to the sewer line, 1/4" per foot ?
mike
The waste line exits the house about 80 feet from the sewer line by the street. 1/4' per foot -> 20". The house is higher than the street by maybe three or our feet. I think there is enough slope. I guess the question I have is what could cause the waste line to break.
Thanks.
Around here the line has to have a minimum 2% fall from house to sewer and or septic tank. I've seen lines as high as 20" on the sewer/septic end and 20' for some of the deeper taps I've done. There's really no way for us to tell you how deep on your house the line should come out without knowing the depth of the sewer tap. "Be modest. A lot was accomplished before you were born."
Thanks for the information. It sounds like the plumbers work from the sewer line to the house to figure what height the drain pipe exits through the basement wall. (it's gotta flow down hill after all). I'll be contacting a plumber who lives in the next subdivision. I figure that he is familiar with the building practices in the area.
Thanks.
Since you said your house is 3 or 4 feet above the street don't worry about fall on the pipe.
BTW the min fall for 'horizontal runs' is 1/4" and the max is 1/2" per foot. In instances when there is a significant height difference between the house exit soil pipe and the sewer connection at the street - which there normally is, the soil pipe can be "forty fived" down. See attached pic.
To answer your Q directly, around here in NC, the plumbers sometimes don't burry the pipe by more than 4 or 5" although we have no frost line to speak of.
Not much help but you got your money's worth. I have noticed that here at BT, we don't have any plumbing "heavies". Someone should respond though - it's a simple enough question...Matt
You are right on the amount of fall, and your picture of the transition is excellent.
What your picture shows and what may have happened to sambrown is a lack of grillage supporting the sewer line. If his sewrer line was not supported by a bed of gravel it can indeed settle and cause the pipe to break or pull apart.
An installation like that would not pass inspection here. I passed my first inspecrion here by promising my first born and promising to finish putting grillage under my sewer line :)
The grillage also dampens the frost movement in this area, but I could see that it could be an issue in other places. Not sure, so I'll contact my plumber about it.
Dave
Matt & Dave,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll be calling the plumber this morning. I have a sense of impending doom and tearup of the entire yard back to the main sewer line. I did not see the plumber install the drain line to the main sewer, but I doubt it was done correctly. Perhaps what is visible is only the tip of the iceberg.
Is this work something that most plumbers can handle or is exterior work a specialty that only certain plumber perform.
If you can literally see the area where water is coming out, get out there with a shovel.
Dig carefully until you find the pipe/broken area. That way you can fix it yerself w/ a rubber hubless connector (like a Fernco but w/4 band clamps instead of 2) or at least it will save the plumber digging it up. The bigger question is why its busted IMO. Are there cast iron mains inside? Maybe its tree roots, etc.
grillage - never heard that word. Learned something already today - been 'up' for 5 minutes... the pic was taken bofore the pipe was "bedded in". But, we just use dirt for that. And it definately was inspected. I know, around here, for utility mains, the requirements are different - as I see 'em down in the trench with the jumping jack. Maybe the lack of a frost line has something to do with it? Matt
Don't feel lonely.
I wasn't there when they did my underground inspection. Dw was on site and made the promises to the inspector (course it was my first born, not hers). I had to call the inspector and ask what the indecipherable word on the sticker was, and its meaning.
He said "gravel boy". ( I love it when they call me "boy", reminds me not to ever use that term with anyone over 18 years old).
Our frost depth is 30", but sewer and septic sysytrems are not required to be below the frost line. There should be no standing water in a drain line if properly installed, and none in a lteral field line if there is correct perc. of the soil.
Dave
Me thinks that he was showing off and ended up miss using the term.I was guessing gravel, just by the application.But I have never heard of it either.95% of the google hits are non-english.3 dictionary sites and they all list basically the samething." A network or frame of timber or steel serving as a foundation, usually on ground that is wet or soft.[French, from Old French, trellis, from greille, gridiron. See grill.]"And found a picture of something called grillage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gallery/image/0,8543,-10604771748,00.htmlAnd the Navey has a grillage test faciltiy, but from the description could not tell exactly what it does.And I found a Canadian firm that uses the term, but they make grills (grates).http://www.bolar.com/default.php?lang=en
Are you sure it is a sewer line and not a drain tile for your gutters?
J.P.
Very excellent point...this is probably more likely..."Be modest. A lot was accomplished before you were born."
j.p.
It is definately the waste line for the house. I went in to the house and turned the faucet on in the kitchen and went back to see water flowing through the pipe. At least the water was not flooding the area. It was going into the drain pipe even though it was split.
Thanks.
sambrown,That's too bad. If you can see it then at least you don't have to dig too much to fix it. As posted earlier it is not a terribly difficult repair to do. You can probably do it yourself but really need to find out why it happened in the first place to make sure it wont happen again.J.P. http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
The 2000 IRC Code requires the sewer line shall not be installed in an area subject to freezing. P3001.2
This would then mean it must be below the frost line or it must be insulated against freezing.
I don't think P3001.2 applies in this case. It applies only to "the above-grade DWV system".
Also, from a practical point of view, if the main drain had to exit the basement 4 feet underground, and then run downhill to the TOP of the septic tank, you'd be digging a pretty deep hole when you install the septic tank.
often the first 2 ft around the house settles alot in the first 5 yrs. in wi we dig very deep holes for septic. no plumbing shall be installed in areas subject to frost is in and outside the exception being vent piping. most medium size plumbing shops have scopes so they can see the rest of your pipe without digging.
i think you should scrap in a 12" piece of pipe with 2 ferncos. then measure the pitch of the patch. if it is level or backpitched call for the scope:(. if it is ok then call for the scope:).
Thanks to all for the info. As soon as it stops raining, I'll start digging. In the mean time I am showering, etc at the gym. (No DW ..... otherwise me or the plumber would be out in the rain fixing this dang thing.)
The article that was cited in the IRC, P3001.2, is a single sentence which begins "No portion of the ABOVE-GRADE DWV system other than vent......" (my caps) so I'm pretty sure that doesn't address the below-grade DWV.
So when you say "no plumbing shall be installed in areas subject to frost is in and outside.... ", are you citing a different reference in the IRC, a local code, or stating one man's opinion ?
keep turning the pages to where it specifically states below grade. it was not a quote. but i have spent enough time jumping on a shovel to expose pipe and install insulation to last a lifetime.
OK
P2603.6 requires that any soil, waste or water pipe be protected from freezing. This would then imply that the waste line should be below the frost line or should be insulated.
Yes, that one looks like the correct IRC article.
It is totally ignored in my area - I wonder why ?