Replies

1. 
   FastEddie | Aug 30, 2009 09:13pm | #1

   Real linoleum?  Nothing at all wrong with that choice.

   "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

2. 
   rnsykes | Aug 30, 2009 11:30pm | #2

   Nothing wrong with sheet flooring. As an installer, I love the stuff. I'm tired of putting down garbage 99 cent glazed terra cotta tile. I've never heard of IWS as an underlayment. In fact, I can think of a few reasons not to use it. I've always just used 1/4" underlayment, shellac'd and flash patched the seams and around the toilet hole. Sounds like you are trying to make a water tight floor. You will see irregularities from the plywood telegraph through, so either smooth out that plywood or put some type of underlayment down.

1. 
   Rikar | Aug 31, 2009 12:20am | #3

   Thanks guys.  RN, i was planning to just smear some silicone caulk along a butted seam instead of overlapping the IWS, as is normally done.  Any other problems with the IWS?  The plywood is nice and smooth.  Would you shellac the entire floor (i.e., plywood)?  How do you do your flash patching? And, yeah, i've seen bathroom floor disasters so am trying to avoid as much as possible.

1. 
   FastEddie | Aug 31, 2009 01:47am | #4

   Silicone could cause adhesion problems with the adhesive.  The ice & water is slightly rubbery, so it could cause a problem by not providing a rigid surface."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

1. 
   Rikar | Aug 31, 2009 02:22am | #5

   Ahh, right.  Forgot to mention that the linoleum is the floating kind.  Had doubts about using it at all, but the manufacturer (thru their instruction sheet) implied it could be used in bathrooms with no problem.

1. 
   rnsykes | Aug 31, 2009 05:23am | #6

   Couple of things. I love the fiber floor type flooring. it's nice and soft to walk on, and it's wear layer is super thick. However, I've had really bad luck with them in the bathroom. Mainly right in front of the vanity. It seems like the flooring tends to stretch and causes a bubble in front of the vanity. Not sure if this is brand specific as I've only had experience with Tarkett, but just something to think about.
   Second, Check with the manufacturer, but I think you may void any warranty by adhering the edges of the flooring. It's made to be laid loose. Your baseboard should finish off the edges just fine.
   The flash patch is a product like Henry 545. It's used to fill seams or dents from pounding in under set staples or nails. I use the shellac because I've seen the flash patch swell the underlayment which causes even more problems. I spread the the stuff out and sand it smooth once it's dry.
   I'd be afraid that the IWS would wrinkle or bubble up under the flooring. I'd skip it completely. There is really no need water proof sub floor.
   All that said, I've never seen the stuff laid over plywood. It's thick and soft enough that it may be fine. If thats the way you decide to go, just make sure the plywood is smooth and the seams are feathered out.

2. 
   Rikar | Aug 31, 2009 07:42am | #7

   Thanks.  Good food for thought.  Preciate it.

3. 
   Sbds | Sep 01, 2009 01:54am | #8

   Try Redgard: http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/ProductCatalog/SurfacePrep/WaterproofingAntiFractureMembranes/RedGard.aspx

1. 
   rnsykes | Sep 01, 2009 02:42am | #9

   I just don't think it's necessary in this case. I'd be more inclined to say skim coat the entire floor with the self leveler and sand it smooth. All depending on the size of the room.

1. 
   Rikar | Sep 01, 2009 03:21am | #10

   Thanks again guys.  I'm afraid the redguard would leave irregularities (at least the way i apply things...) that might show thru the linoleum, but it may be just what i need for a basement bath.  I'll definitely look into it.

1. 
   FastEddie | Sep 01, 2009 07:32pm | #11

   Looking at your original post, is the 5/8 ply rated as underlayment?  You will probably have to lay one more layer of 1/4 ply, so what do you think about putting a layer of redguard on top of the 5/8?  That will waterproof everything under the 1/4" layer, and you won;t have to worry about minor imperfections in the redguard."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

1. 
   Rikar | Sep 01, 2009 10:33pm | #12

   I bit the bullet and got sanded ply so very smooth.  Won't the redguard have roller ridges and/or high & low spots that would show thru the linoleum?  Otherwise, yeah, i'd rather use it than the IWS (not any non-skid stuff).

2. 
   FastEddie | Sep 01, 2009 10:38pm | #13

   Yes, that's why I was thinking about a proer underlayment material on top of the redguard."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

3. 
   Rikar | Sep 02, 2009 01:10am | #15

   Ahh, gottcha.  Makes sense.

4. 
   rnsykes | Sep 01, 2009 10:40pm | #14

   I'm really not seeing the benefit of waterproofing the underlayment. I would have to questions wether 5/8" sanded ply is rated for underlayment, but I don't really know. Are you really expecting to see that much water make it to the floor?

5. 
   Rikar | Sep 02, 2009 01:14am | #16

   Who knows....  I was just looking for worst case scenerio, i guess.

   But, again, thanks for all the input, guys.  Going back to square one and rethink everything.

4. 
   DanH | Sep 02, 2009 04:20am | #17

   For a bathroom one thing you want to do is to waterproof around the toilet flange such that 1) water will not go through the floor (and onto the ceiling below), and 2) water will run ON TOP of the finish flooring rather than seeping underneath it. Both of these can be managed by using some sort of caulk and/or putty and/or a bit of left-over thinset after the flooring is down.

   Also note that wax from the wax ring can migrate into the edge of sheet flooring and discolor it, so add that to the things you seal against.

   As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
1. 
   Rikar | Sep 02, 2009 07:15am | #18

   Good counsel as always.  Was going to use silicone caulk for #1 (and the wax, of course).  Number 2 was the problem as the linoleum is floating type.  Didn't know about your final note so thanks for that, too.

1. 
   kurt99 | Sep 02, 2009 05:57pm | #19

   From your descriptions, I assume that you are talking about a sheet vinyl floor. The manufactures are going to have very specific installation instructions which are probably only allow the installation on a rated underlayment board or smooth bare concrete with approved patching compounds and adhesives. Anything else will void the warranty. If something you put down reacts badly with the flooring, possibly causing discoloration or telegraphing of surface irregularities, you will own the problem.Asphalt driveways will cause yellowing from substances tracked in on shoes. The top of the line products are guaranteed against this yellowing but even then, I believe that they are just more resistant than the cheaper grades and the manufactures hope that the warranty runs out before the problem appears and they eat some warranty replacements. I would hate to think what Ice & Water Shield might do.If by "floating type" you mean the perimeter glue materials that are glued only in a narrow strip around the edges with a special adhesive, they shrink during the first few days or weeks after installation to pull tight, eliminating bubbles and other loose spots. These will be actively pulling on the adhesive. If the Ice & Water Shield or any other waterproofing materials pull loose or cause the floor adhesive to fail, again, you will own the problem.You need to keep the water out from under the floor in the first place. If water gets under the floor, you will get mildew which will grow in the backing of the flooring and produce colored spots. They aren't just black but can be pinks and blue and all sorts of interesting colors. Whether from a one time flood or slow seep, if water gets under the floor, the sheet vinyl will be trashed, no matter what happens to the subflooring.The top of the sheet vinyl is waterproof so your best defense in a good perimeter seal including around the toilet flange and any other penetrations you may have.

1. 
   Rikar | Sep 02, 2009 07:20pm | #20

   Thanks for your insight, too, Kurt.  This stuff is linoleum with textured, "padded" backing.  The only installation material is double-sided tape.  I wasn't too fond of that concept in a bathroom, but the manufacturer stated it would work fine.  I guess using that product is what got me thinking more about subfloor treatment, but after yourall's comments, i think i'll trash the IWS idea all together.

5. 
   FinishCarpz | Sep 03, 2009 07:18am | #21

   If you use something under the floor that the manufacturer says not to use, there is probably a reason.....it's not unheard of to have color problems if there is something odd under flooring that is either bleading color or the fumes are causing the flooring to do strange things. 

   If you are that concerned about water under the flooring, maybe you need to use something else.