Replies

1. 
   Don_Minter | Nov 08, 1999 03:33pm | #1

   *
   I recently purchased a "fixer-upper" that had been abandoned for several years. It had a water well in place, but I had no idea if the water was good or bad. The first thing I did was send a sample of the water to a laboratory for analysis. The Lab I used was called "waterworks," and was located in Massachusetts. I could have probably found a cheaper way to do this, but I was very happy with both the service and results I received from WaterWorks.

   The short answer to your question is, "You need a water softener if you have hard water." You will need to get an analysis done to determine this. More importantly, you will need to get the water checked for bacteria (e. coli and coliform being two of the most dangerous). These can be introduced to the well if the septic is too close.

   You can buy cheap kits from most hardware stores that will allow you to check the water yourself. I can make no comment about the efficacy of such kits. As in all things, I am sure there are both good and bad kits available.

   One thing I would caution you about is taking your water sample for analysis to a business that sells water softeners This is not to say that there are not also reputable water treatment businesses, but I am always cautious when someone tells me "You need it, and lucky for you, I sell it."

   I hope this helps. By the way, I found WaterWorks on the web using a search engine.

2. 
   Don_Minter | Nov 08, 1999 03:33pm | #2

   *
   I recently purchased a "fixer-upper" that had been abandoned for several years. It had a water well in place, but I had no idea if the water was good or bad. The first thing I did was send a sample of the water to a laboratory for analysis. The Lab I used was called "waterworks," and was located in Massachusetts. I could have probably found a cheaper way to do this, but I was very happy with both the service and results I received from WaterWorks.

   The short answer to your question is, "You need a water softener if you have hard water." You will need to get an analysis done to determine this. More importantly, you will need to get the water checked for bacteria (e. coli and coliform being two of the most dangerous). These can be introduced to the well if the septic is too close.

   You can buy cheap kits from most hardware stores that will allow you to check the water yourself. I can make no comment about the efficacy of such kits. As in all things, I am sure there are both good and bad kits available.

   One thing I would caution you about is taking your water sample for analysis to a business that sells water softeners This is not to say that there are not also reputable water treatment businesses, but I am always cautious when someone tells me "You need it, and lucky for you, I sell it."

   I hope this helps. By the way, I found WaterWorks on the web using a search engine.

3. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 04:50pm | #3

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   Trisha,
   We have lived in the St. Louis area for years and recently bought a house in High Ridge on a well. The Jefferson County Health Department will test the water for $10.00. You must use their container to collect the sample and there are specific guidelines to adhere to.
   A water softner is not a must but makes a huge difference in the amount of detergent and soap you will use.
   The next consideration is the age of the pump and the brand. A good to best variation is the way to go when replacing them. You don't want to be without water for a day or two very often.
   Make sure the design of the septic system is more than just the minimum requirement.
   These are areas that need to be adressed when installing the first time. Make sure your builder can explain the systems and if they are done correctly you will have many years of service from these major components.
   Good Luck and contact me if you have any more questions!

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 06:58pm | #5

   *Trisha,Here in New Hampshire, wells are the norm, both dug wells and drilled wells. As someone mentioned already, the first thing to do is have your water tested. "Waterworks" is very good, so is Sears. You probably have a sourse locally to do the job. If you have iron in your water, it's more than just a convienence to have a softener. You'll stain your fixtures, and screw up your plumbing, without a system. In addition to iron, have the water checked for bacteria, chemicals, and gases. They have systems to fix all these problems, should they exist. Not sure if Missouri has alot of ledge, or granite, but here in NH,radon is a problem in most areas with drilled wells. Now that can get expensive to rectify.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 09:01pm | #7

   *TrishaI'd also recommend a filtration system especially if you plan on using an icemaker. You'd be suprised how much "micro" particles you get, especially from a well. A filter not only helps prevent sediment from building up in your hot water tank (reducing the life of it), but also helps reduce the clogging you get at your faucets.Vince

4. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 04:50pm | #4

   *
   Trisha,
   We have lived in the St. Louis area for years and recently bought a house in High Ridge on a well. The Jefferson County Health Department will test the water for $10.00. You must use their container to collect the sample and there are specific guidelines to adhere to.
   A water softner is not a must but makes a huge difference in the amount of detergent and soap you will use.
   The next consideration is the age of the pump and the brand. A good to best variation is the way to go when replacing them. You don't want to be without water for a day or two very often.
   Make sure the design of the septic system is more than just the minimum requirement.
   These are areas that need to be adressed when installing the first time. Make sure your builder can explain the systems and if they are done correctly you will have many years of service from these major components.
   Good Luck and contact me if you have any more questions!

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 06:58pm | #6

   *Trisha,Here in New Hampshire, wells are the norm, both dug wells and drilled wells. As someone mentioned already, the first thing to do is have your water tested. "Waterworks" is very good, so is Sears. You probably have a sourse locally to do the job. If you have iron in your water, it's more than just a convienence to have a softener. You'll stain your fixtures, and screw up your plumbing, without a system. In addition to iron, have the water checked for bacteria, chemicals, and gases. They have systems to fix all these problems, should they exist. Not sure if Missouri has alot of ledge, or granite, but here in NH,radon is a problem in most areas with drilled wells. Now that can get expensive to rectify.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 09:01pm | #8

   *TrishaI'd also recommend a filtration system especially if you plan on using an icemaker. You'd be suprised how much "micro" particles you get, especially from a well. A filter not only helps prevent sediment from building up in your hot water tank (reducing the life of it), but also helps reduce the clogging you get at your faucets.Vince

5. 
   m._l. | Nov 08, 1999 11:37pm | #9

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   You only "need" a softener if you "want" a softener. Our water goes off the scale for hardness when they test it at the pool place. However, we don't use a softener, but lots of vinegar, in the dishwasher between loads. I also pour a gallon of vinegar into the toilet to sit overnight every so often. I actually take the dishwasher apart and chip the calcium off. But, I don't want a softener.

   If this is your first well, are you also in a location where you're on a septic system?? Be very nice to your septic. Nothing more than poop and toilet paper down the drain. Not even kleenex. Unless you like the idea of having it pumped at $100 a time. No harsh chemicals. Learn to clean with vinegar and scrub with baking soda.

   Our system is forty years old. Our first year here I was much too rough on ours, even though I knew better. After about three back-ups, we (don't try this at home) moved the washing machine and kitchen drain onto a dry well system, which everyone will tell you is against code. And they're right. But we're in the bush, and no one can see us digging holes, and the soil is sandy, and it's works just fine now. And our well is 250 feet away from the house. Don't ask me why, we didn't drill it.

6. 
   m._l. | Nov 08, 1999 11:37pm | #10

   *
   You only "need" a softener if you "want" a softener. Our water goes off the scale for hardness when they test it at the pool place. However, we don't use a softener, but lots of vinegar, in the dishwasher between loads. I also pour a gallon of vinegar into the toilet to sit overnight every so often. I actually take the dishwasher apart and chip the calcium off. But, I don't want a softener.

   If this is your first well, are you also in a location where you're on a septic system?? Be very nice to your septic. Nothing more than poop and toilet paper down the drain. Not even kleenex. Unless you like the idea of having it pumped at $100 a time. No harsh chemicals. Learn to clean with vinegar and scrub with baking soda.

   Our system is forty years old. Our first year here I was much too rough on ours, even though I knew better. After about three back-ups, we (don't try this at home) moved the washing machine and kitchen drain onto a dry well system, which everyone will tell you is against code. And they're right. But we're in the bush, and no one can see us digging holes, and the soil is sandy, and it's works just fine now. And our well is 250 feet away from the house. Don't ask me why, we didn't drill it.

7. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 01:19am | #11

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   ML, get a softener, and run the drain line to your dry well. The money you save on vinegar will pay for the unit in no time. Thrisha, I've got a softner at two houses that drains directly to the septic system. The systems are over 30 years old, and have never had a problem. I pump all my septic systems out every 2 years. Cheapest insurance for a failed system there is. As I said before, the problem with hard water goes beyond the staining (tough to get that vinegar into the water system), and the lack of sudsing. Your clothes will look like iron in no time at all.

8. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 01:19am | #12

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   ML, get a softener, and run the drain line to your dry well. The money you save on vinegar will pay for the unit in no time. Thrisha, I've got a softner at two houses that drains directly to the septic system. The systems are over 30 years old, and have never had a problem. I pump all my septic systems out every 2 years. Cheapest insurance for a failed system there is. As I said before, the problem with hard water goes beyond the staining (tough to get that vinegar into the water system), and the lack of sudsing. Your clothes will look like iron in no time at all.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 09:50am | #13

   *Trisha,A lot of iron in the water can turn you into a redhead!I dated one once, then she moved to city water and the brown hair returned.Rich Beckman

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 07:14pm | #14

   *Hi Trisha,I live in east central MO and have a well. Our water is particularly good and I don't plan on installing a softener. Around here, water quality is a direct function of how deep you go. Folks down the road had horrible water, including iron which a regular softener won't help. That usually requires a seperate unit (ones I'm familiar with use a toxic substance which has a dye in it to let you know if it is leaking into the supply water). As people have stated already, get the water checked. That should determine the extent of the need. Some down sides to a softener: unit expense (typically several hundred $$), operation expense (electric and salt), inconvenience (though some modern ones are no problem), potential for sodium binding in the leach field (MO clay soils), taste, slippery feel when bathing (like you can't get all the soap off). Of coarse, the up sides of reduced calcium deposits for really hard water may offset all of these. We use a little vinegar now and then to clean. No problems.Good luck, SWright

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 08:43pm | #15

   *Trisha, I live in NW Arkansas, with well water. The well is 110 feet deep, we are on the side of a hill (they call them mountains here ...) 1535' elevation. The well taps a perched water table, there are no aquifers in the region (none that measure up for this Kansas boy). This means short water in dry season, meaning now. We bought this as a fixer upper (still working on it!). If I was building new, I'd drill the well, and have it flow tested before building the house. Flow testing in late October would be best in this region.Filters. Change them a lot, it makes it easier on your pump. I use a paper cartridge (25 microns), then a 5 micron string wound cartridge, and then a charcol cartridge (5 or 1 micron, I can't remember). The charcol helped the water flavor, smell, and seemed to help with iron deposits on toilet. Soap scum in shower is still present. Particles in icewater are avoided by using ice made with bottled water (we make our ice the old fashioned way!) Well water is not used for drinking. Used in cooking only if boiled. I do not use the well water for brewing or making wine, too hard for my tastes. Coffee is also made with bottled water. No water softner used.To combat dry times, we have a double pumping system with a 1500 gal holding tank (I'm quite proud of this DYI project. I'm not a plumber and hold plumbers in high respect, they work hard!) The in-well pump pumps until it is dry, monitored by an electric device, it shuts down, and tries again in 90 minutes. The water is collected in the tank, and pumped a second time, by a second well house pump attached to the captive air tank, when water is called for in the house (faucet turned on.) This double pumping system allowed my wife to quite going to the laundry mat, and start doing laundry at home, after I installed a Maytag Neptune washer (saves water.) When it's real dry, like now, I still haul a little water (275 gal) once a week. This double pumping method is also used by a friend of mine who has sulfer water, he _sprays_ his into the holding tank and it helps disapate the sulfer smell. He also chlorinates (has an inline chlorinator).If you've read this far, you may be getting the impression that living with a well is a lot of work. It can be. There are also other considerations. Electric out? No water. Pump broke? No water. Changing filters is messy work, but what isn't? Pump breaks while visiting mother is washing hair? Too bad! Pump in well regularly needs replacing every 5 years and one month (warrantied 5 years.) Don't know if this new double pump system will extend that.Septic tanks. Make your leach field large. Overbuild. Get a huge septic. PUMP OUT THE TANK regularly. Once you get solids clogging your leach field ... you're ready to install a new leach field. Regularly for me is every 3 years. Maybe more now with the clothes washer. OK, you said be lengthy.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 09:32am | #16

   *Trisha,Welcome to the wonderful world of wells! Your best source of information on wells may be through your local county agricultural agent. Here in TN, the agent has a rather informative booklet on deep well systems that is free. He may also be able to direct you to knowledgeable persons in your community. If you had your well drilled, your driller should be able to answer many of your questions. Your neighbors who are also on wells may be the most knowledgeable because they have had to learn it before.Your local health department may be able to test your water free of charge or for a small fee. A local university may be able to provide a comprehensive water analysis at a minimal cost. Remember this, no two wells are alike. I have seen wells just a few hundred feet apart that vary widely in flow per minute and water quality. If your water is safe to drink and you are happy with the smell and mineral content, don't buy anything else!

2. 
   Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 12:23pm | #17

   *I can tell this is going to be a "loooong thread".Perhaps the sysop would like to give it it's own column?

3. 
   Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 10:55am | #18

   *Very simple. Have a thorough test done on a sample. After the well is drilled and the pump installed, I like to run the pump for several hours a day for a few days. Then take your sample. Thereafter, have it tested annually.The test results will dictate your next move. I've had zero problem on my own well. I can't fathom the though of putting up with what I've read in some of the above posts. As others have mentioned, before you run the first drop of water through your plumbing, install a whole-house water filter. For best performance, put it after your outside hose bibs takeoffs but before the water goes into your domestic system. No sense in filtering water used to water the vegetable garden. Inexpensive yet effective ones can be had a HD for about $35USD. With a drilled well it's inevitable that particulate will be pumped into your house. The filter will help keep your fixtures from rust staining, etc. These will work for grains of sediment. If the water test shows other water problems you'll certainly need something better. And more expensive.Though it is an additional cost, do consider eventually getting a new low consumption washing machine or divert your current machine's discharge (if you can) to a greywater recovery or distribution outlet. Your septic will thank you.

4. 
   Guest_ | Nov 12, 1999 11:28am | #19

   *Well having had to operate my own water and sewer utility on more than one occasion let me give you some food for thought:-Like has been posted before get your water tested initially and on a regular schedule after the initial test.-I don't like the typical salt based water softener because it raises the sodium level of your drinking water. For many people this has an adverse health effect and also adversely affects your septic tank and leach field. (I am assuming that since your have a well for input you also have a septic system to take care of the output). Filter systems are much better in this regard. You may even want to consider one of the newer systems that use other methods. Whatever you use be sure you can get it serviced by a stable company.-As for cleaning iron stains from the dishwasher, washing machine, etc.; I have found Tang to be the single best product. Just use it in the soap container as often as needed to keep the machine clean, or use instead of regular toilet cleaner. Cheap and easy to use. If people only knew what they were drinking!-The two best sources for what works with your water is to talk to the Coop Extension Office and your neighbors. Water supplies can vary significantly in not very much of an area.-If you have really horrid water you may find that a split system where the untreated water is used for toilets, dishwashing, etc and the treated water is used for drinking, bathing, etc.-Find out if you can get commercial water to your area. In some areas of the country a group of homeowners can band together to form a water utility that will supply all of them. This is not a trivial project but the long term benefit often makes it worth the effort.

9. 
   Trisha_B | Jan 04, 2000 11:31pm | #20

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   our new home will be on a well. Do I need to buy a water softner? What about charcoal filters? Please be lengthy I know nothing on this. Live in Missouri if that matters.