Went to see a job this morning, soon as I got there I knew I didn’t want it. Virtually all the ‘indicators’ were showing red. All I wanted to do was say ‘sorry, find somebody else’ and get out of there. Couldn’t do that, of course, I mean, I advertise for this work and when people call the least I can do is go and have a look and give them a price.
Now I know the classic technique in this situation is to price high, then if the HO gives me the job then at least I have some financial compensation. Trouble is, if the HO doesn’t give me the job (my desired result in this case) I don’t want her telling her circle of friends and relatives that she called me but I was way too expensive.
It won’t work me saying I’m booked up solid because she doesn’t want the work done til August, plus if I was booked solid, why didn’t I say so on the phone?
Any ideas as to how to turn her down, politely?
I’m reminded of the Paul Simon song, 50 ways etc
John
Replies
John,
Pricing high is my method. And I have occasionally done the booked solid idea. On one occasion I knew another contractor looking for work and played matchmaker and got the two of them together. Both wound up happy.
I guess really there are few other ways other than to just tell her that due to unforseen schedule problems you will simply have to pass but thanks for the call. Add the name of another competetor that she can call. Me, I just price it high. I would rather be known as expensive vs cheap. DanT
John,
What time did you look at this job anyway? You posted at 6:18 AM and said you went and looked at the work this morning. Man no wonder you want to pass if she had you out there at 4AM! LOL. DanT
John,
What time did you look at this job anyway? You posted at 6:18 AM and said you went and looked at the work this morning.
Well, Dan, I guess it's a point of view thing, I mean, it may seem like I posted at 6.18am, but from the point of view of a person in England, like I am, it was more like 11.18am
John
"It won't work me saying I'm booked up solid because she doesn't want the work done til August, plus if I was booked solid, why didn't I say so on the phone?"
Can you tell her that you had a potential job for that time slot hanging contingent on a decision within 3 days............ which you really didn't think would come thru............ but when you got back home from looking at her job......there was a message on the machine that they'd decided to proceed with it afterall? Thank her for the call and the opportunity to do the job. Then wish her well and say "bye,bye".
Or some derivitive of the above.
The truth
My life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm with you. Made up stories/excuses can always catch up with you. A non-committal, "Thanks for the call, but I'm going to have to pass on this," can get you out without offending anyone.
Gotta agreee...the truth is the easiest thing to remember. If she asks, tell her the job was more complicated than you thought...or there were some items that you did not feel confident that you caould hande...couldn't do a good enough job for a woman (or customer) of her stature...etc
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Like with telemarketers, I'd avoid all reasons for declining, and just stay with a vague "I'll need to pass on it, but thanks, here's the names of 3 guys who might be interested." If you give reasons, there's always a comeback and then it's hard to get out of the conversation...
Cloud,
So are there more carps than painters?
There's plenty to go around.....a simple polite call back (don't burn your bridges) and say the truth.
I've been trying to find a plumber and an electrician......a sparky came here last week and I had a printed list to make it easy for them of what I wanted.
I told him I'm going to get three bids (honest).
He told me he'd be back to me in a day or two......well its been about a week or more.
Pisses me off to be dissed like that.
The job isnt all that difficult.all the framed walls are totally open and access to the panel is straight ahead work.
I think the age of this house scares a real lot of people.
HAd another sparky call me to say he didn't forget about coming to bid......never heard from him again (two weeks ago).
Maybe I have bad breath or something( even over the phone??).
I'm more than willing to pay what the jobs worth and it seems to me theres a reallllll lotta jerks out there.
So much for trying to do a 1680 house.seems to scare people to death along with the Historic Society putting clogs in my wheels.
No problem......I'm sure I'll get it done to more than perfection.
99% finished the living room this week which looks incredable and I never say that about my work (low self asteam....lol).
I think I work best when I'm angry and under pressure.
Anywho,,,the truth has always worked for me as do smiles and lookin' in ones eyes.
Be real
andyMy life is my passion!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Man Cloud, That's RED referring telemarketers to your friends..............
How do you sleep nights?
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Eek. I only meant the first part with telemarketers, not the referral part. I won't give reasons to people that aren't family/friends, be/c people are trained in ways to overcome each objection, and there's no way out of that conversation once it starts.
Now andy, the truth?
How do you polish up, This job sucks, maybe you suck, and I do not want to do it?
4
Simple as that.just gotta clean up the language is all."My life is my practice"
It would help to know what the job was and what you didn't like about it. I agree that being non-specific when declining work is a good idea.... 'the job isn't a good fit for my company, so we're going to pass on it, but thanks for the call'
It would help to know what the job was
Supply and fit new doors, drawer fronts and countertops, plus make a couple of cabinets, simple stuff, I do it all the time
and what you didn't like about it
Where to start? well firstly it's in the centre of an old market town (in England) and the parking is DIFFICULT. Secondly the kitchen was quite dirty, type of place where you want to wash your hands after touching anything. Thirdly, only a small number of doors and drawer fronts needed, but lots of countertop (I only do counters in order to get the quite lucrative door-replacement work). Fourthly it was obvious her husband didn't approve. Fifthly the job is not until August. Etc Etc Etc
I don't think I can say that the job isn't a good fit because it's exactly what I do, and what I advertise. If I put forward specific objections then they can be argued with- for instance I say I'm away in August- she will just say OK do it in September etc
I think I'm just going with the high estimate, plus she has to pay any parking fines, that should do it
Thanks for the advice everybody, keep it coming
John
Ok, I'm going to take the customers side, sort-of.
1. Allow money in the budget for parking, and let it show as a line item in the proposal.
2. Allow money for a maid or cleaning service to go in first.
3. Counters vs doors...well, that's the luck of the draw.
4. Tell her you need a substantial down payment before you'll order any materials or schedule the work, and tell her you need both her and the husbands signature on the contract.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I agree with lots of things. First dont lie. it will come back or bite you with karma
I agree with ed, list all the items that are problems and "bid" her for it
and bid it high.
let them know that the time frame might be tough, that if that is the date she might want to get other bids from competiorts
get a big depeosit and get it now to "lock in" august date, non-refundable due to their cancellation 1 week after signing contract.
give them the oppurtunity to back out now
you still mgith end up "stuck" and in that case go for the , job of "tweeking the truths" learned that in politics !!!!
sorry another bid just came in nd it is first come first served, were booked now for the summer. We can do it now ( if you need the work, but stick with your big numbers) or here is a list of guys I know who might be able to fit it in to fit your schedule.
of course there is the old, we have a funeral that month for my dog who was crossing the street to bring me a Guiness.
Parking can be dealt with, it just costs money. I've done a lot of work in San Francisco and there are few worse places to park. You'll have to name your price for that part, and explain it to her.
I had one job where a toilet leaked at the seal. I went to check it out and the bathroom was quite dirty. I told her we would come and fix it right away but that I needed the room thoroughly cleaned because I was going to send two men in and they were going to be down on hands and knees crawling around with their faces near the toilet. Owner was entirely OK with that, she knew it wasn't clean too. So, tell the owner you're going to charge for a cleaning person to come in first, and show that as a line item.
Regarding the husband, you need a contract with both of their signatures on it. Send 'em that with the costs for the above included and see if it comes back signed by both.
Copycat!Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Chill, homey. Your post was not on my screen when I posted. I pushed reply and then took a phone call before typing.
BTW, why tell a client that you're incapable of a job or could not satisfy a person of her stature. What a load of BS. Would you really use a line like that?
Would you really use a line like that? Yep, sure would. "Mrs Jones, I've never done that type of counter top before, and I don't feel comfortable learning how on you kitchen. You're cabinets are classic, they don't make them that way any more, and I'd sure hate to make a mistake and get you upset". Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
If the counters and cabinets are unusual and irreplaceable you could use that excuse, but if they're typical stuff that everyone has, then Mrs. Jones is going to know you're trying to squirm out of it. I think it's better to name a price you'd be happy to do it for, and if she actually hires you, be happy.
Well, John .
Use my best one then .
Im pysically attracted to you and Im happily married . I would like to do the job , but my mind would be on you , so IM gonna have to pass on the job .
She will be thrilled.
Tim Mooney
Tim, you're a genius. "Ma'am, this is a great job and I've love to do it, but you're making me HOT and I gotta get outta here before something happens." Then just hit the door in a hurry. We have a winner!
Tim,
I've gotta tell you, I read that post before heading to work this morning. I thought about it a few times during the day, and it's still got me chuckling. Funny.
for instance I say I'm away in August- she will just say OK do it in September etc
Hey john! are you going to the Rhodefest? I always enjoy shooting the breeze with an Englishman
it's in the centre of an old market town (in England)
Picadilly square you say? Take the tube.................:-)"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
The truth is always the best..
NEVER say something like, you had a major accident or fire or someone died or cancer...cuz it it is KARMA..if ya say something like that, my experiences were that IT WILL HAPPEN...spooky but true..no kidding.
Whas she just too ugly? ya might have to sugar coat that truth a bit.<G>
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I went out on a call to see this lady that had a beautiful second story deck that she built but now after a year would like a railing put on it.
Now normally I wouldn't even go out on a call like this.........
I am a design/build company not a pick up the pieces company........
This lady had two dogs,two parrots,the front door was falling off the hinges,the carpet was ripped up, I'd say about 5 years ago from the traffic pattern in her subfloor, I didn't want to touch anything in the house in fear of getting a disease, and at last we went out on the beautiful deck...........Not
Stairs built wrong, no diagonal bracing, I was in fear of my life so I went down the steps carefully to the ground.............After showing me the moldy pile of lumber that she had purchased for her railing, and looking at the ledger with no bolts, I told her to call The guy that is cheaper than any other decking company to finish her deck.
In the mean time stay off of it before someone gets hurt......................
I did this in a polite way buy saying beforehand, that I don't usually work in that area but would check it out and refer it to some of my other constituents (worst enemies)................. if it was something they would be interested in.
This way if it turns out to be a good fill in job you have left it open ended, and if not, well you have done her a favor by looking at it..........
It is also good protocol to tell your customer that you are interviewing them........
I can see you for our "interview" at 10:00AM
There is no sense in moving forward in a relationship if you're not compatible from the start....
Like many have said here................Be honest............
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Gotta go with the truth. I've earned a lot of respect from customers by telling them that a job wasn't suited to my business. Then they come up with a job or referral that works out well.
And, I respect any contractor that I call to quote on a home job who tells me that the job isn't for him. I appreciate his honesty and the fact that he doesn't waste my time and his.
On another note, maybe take a look at it closer to the start date. Your situation may change, the customer's situation may also change.
Don't bother to make up lies and/or excuses. There is no up side to that.
Integrity is like virginity...you only lose it once.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
Id say its not a job I feel comfortable doing right now and try to be vague about it. The truth isnt always what people want to hear. You really think you are gonna get a lot of referrals if you tell someone their home is so dirty you dont want to work there. Ive looked at jobs with so many cats in the house it probably was a real health hazard to work there. Im not gonna tell them that their house stinks so bad that I cant stand to work in it. I dont think a little lie will hurt anyone in those situations. Maybe its not right but its not gonna help if you hurt their feelings either.
Integrity is like virginity...you only lose it once.
I like that!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Don't bother to make up lies and/or excuses. There is no up side to that.
Pete, you surely can't be serious? Do you manage to go through life telling everybody you deal with the 'truth' about them? What's the upside to me telling the HO that her kitchen is too dirty for me to feel comfortable working in?
John
I do lie from time to time, for instance:
When the wife asks if I like her new haircut.
When the wife asks, "Do these jeans make me look fat?"
etc.
I'm not saying that you should insult your prospective customer, but making up BS excuses can't lead to anything positive. You can always say it is almost impossible to give an accurate quote, which is pretty truthful. How much is your time worth working in filth compared to working in a clean place? Hard to put a number on it.
A simple, "No thanks, I don't want to take this job." is truthful enough. If they press you for details, well, try to get out without insulting anyone. Sort of like breaking up with a girfriend. Just do it, and get the heck out of there quick.Pete Duffy, Handyman
>you surely can't be serious
Not lying is not the same as telling every possible truth. "I'm not interested" or "I cannot take this job" is the truth. Not adding "you're a pig" doesn't suddenly mean you're lying. It does mean you've added manners to honesty.
I think we are drifting away from how to handle undesirable potential clients, into philosophy. That's good. I like philosophy.
Philosophically speaking, I would have to say that if I have a particular reason for not wanting to work for somebody, then saying that I am just 'not interested' in doing the job is not telling the truth. Whether it is an actual lie could be argued, but truth it ain't.
Back to the original problem- if I tell a customer that I am not interested in doing her work, what is her response going to be? She's going to want to know why, of course, which brings me back to the original problem
Just be/c someone asks why, doesn't mean I have to answer in gory detail. I think it's easy to say no, I'm not interested, and avoid the details. Thanks for calling, but it's just not a project I wish to take on at this point. I can repeat that as many times as they can ask Why?
I live in a small place, Jim, and I pretty well know most of the people. One lady kept asking me to come give a price to build he an addition, and I kept politely declining without any lies, but being somewhat vague.
She is know to be a royal pain in the butt and has stiffed one or two guys, but beyoind that, I just don't like to be around her.
But you can't avoid being blunt forever with some people. You see each other occasionally at social functions, the store, the post office, the ferry line...
so one day she backed me up against the wall in the store asking exactly why I wouldn't price her addition for her, and then proceeding to accuse me in public of cherry picking only the rich jobs and rudely ignoring poor little old widow ladies like herself.
I said no maam, that's not it.
"Well then What is your reason"
"Well, since you ask, I don't think I could get along with you long enough to finish the job for you"
I heard later that folks never heard such a loud silence come out of that woman immediately after that, but she never asked me again.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I like that answer!Pete Duffy, Handyman
Circumstances can warrant such a response at times, of course. Diplomacy only goes so far. Well done.
diplomacy defined is telling the other party a lie in such a way that even tho he knows it is a lie, he works with it.
i'm not very diplomatic.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Had an ex-boss who would sometimes use this line. Get in look over the job. Get the clues that raised red flags. He would give a thoughtful 'I see...'.
'This job is much too big for the time I have available to schedule it in'.
'I thought that perhaps it was a smaller and simpler job that would keep my crews busy in the time between bigger jobs I am committed to.'
I'm very sorry but while I would like to take this on and think I could do a good job I just don't have the time or crews available. I am committed, for larger jobs, for quite some time into the future. Perhaps I could suggest another contractor.' (Possibly a competitor or worse enemy.)
He always seemed to come off attentive, genuinely concerned and interested in doing a top quality job. He also came across as honest in openly stating that the fit between the job and his schedule was unfortunately, in this case, incompatible.
I think that with a bit of imagination and personalization something along these lines might work in some situations. Practice with the wife as she tries to trip you up until you get a feel for it.