I am about to have the electrical panel on my home replaced – the current one has rusted awfully and is a sad sight – are there any manufacturers who make a panel that can withstand the ravages of the outdorrs better than others?
We are close to the ocean and that side of the house gets all the weather, which doesn’t help matters …
Thanks for any comments
David E
Replies
Can't the panel be moved to an interior location? I thought that all main panels had to be secured inside, if supplying a home. Are all the circuit connections in conduit?
It would seem best to me that this is the time to move the panel inside and spend the extra money and or time.
I don't know where Dave is, but I lived in San Diego for a short while and my main service panel was outside the garage, behind the shrubbery under the eaves. Took me several days to find it, it was that well hidden. Glad I didn't have to chase a popped circuit breaker at midnight during a rain storm.
Don Don Reinhard - The GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
> Can't the panel be moved to an interior location?
Here in Los Angeles, they're required to be outside. Also, the DWP will give you a short list of makes and models that they accept. Check with both your utility and your building inspector, between the two they'll probably relieve you of the burden of considering many options. ;-)
-- J.S.
John: I think the poster was asking about distribution panels (aka "breaker boxes"). Not meterheads and service entrances which have to be outside on new construction almost everywhere. (But in Barrow, Alaska all utilities run inside a continuous manway called a "utilidor" to keep everything out of the weather.)
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
David --
Meters and distribution panels all in one box are what you find a lot around here. They're used because it costs less than having just a main breaker outside with the meter, and a sub panel elsewhere. Code requires that the meter be out there, economic pressure usually puts the breakers to be there too. But, of course, it never rains in Southern Cal.... ;-)
-- J.S.
I see two issues. First, keeping the breakers safe from corrosion - I'd look to a NEMA 4 (hose-down) enclosure for that. NEMA 6 (submersible) sounds great, but they look like submarine hatches and take as long to open. Second, having an enclosure that will last longer. Stainless steel or non-metallic enclosures (NEMA 4X) are available in any NEMA type. Here's a URL for a supplier of carbon steel, SS, and fiberglass enclosures: http://www.adproductsco.com To enclosure a large distribution panel figure about $400 in fiberglass, $550 in stainless.
McMasters has some fiberglass enclosures.
The downside to this approach is the amount of modification needed since these are simply enclosures, not distribution panels ("breaker boxes"). Does anyone know of a FG or SS dist. panel (ready for breakers to be plugged in)?
Here are the common NEMA types for reference:
NEMA Type 1 "Indoor use to provide a degree of protection against contact with the enclosed equipment; in locations where unusual service conditions do not exist"
NEMA Type 2 Indoor use with protection against limited amounts of
falling water and dirt
NEMA 3 thru 6 for indoor or outdoor use:
NEMA 3 windblown dust, rain and sleet
NEMA 3R windblown rain and sleet
NEMA 4 hose-directed water
NEMA 4X hose-directed water, dust, corrosion, ice
NEMA 6 for temporary submersion
NEMA 6P for prolonged submersion
NEMA 12 indoor for dust, falling dirt and dripping non-corrosive liquids
Don't forget NEMA 7 and NEMA 9 - the Explosion Proof stuff! Very entertaining to deal with, but not likely all that relevant here...
I'd think a nice big NEMA 4x box would be appropriate - could a regular breaker panel be simply put inside the 4x enclosure?
I always preferred FG boxes as they had external attachment holes, so mounting hardware didn't have to have sealing capabilities. But stainless looks better! Just make sure all holes through the box walls have 4x ratings as well - the rating applies to the fully assembled system, not just the box itself.
didI have
misplaced my pants
Diddit: X-P is a pain! Imagine pouring that self-hardening goo into the vapor-barrier fittings for every romex leaving the box - would be like wiring a fricking service station!
Good point about those external pounting tabs on FG boxes.
Seems like, yes, you could mount the whole breaker panel inside another box. I've certainly had breakers behind the second, inner door of an enclosure but that was for industrial toxic-waste-site work. Do residential breakers need to be more accessible (X number of hand motions, maximum??)
Would he really need to stay NEMA 4X all the way? I'm thinking of all those runs of romex. NEMA 4X isn't required in his setting, it would just solve the corrosion problem he observes. So how about NEMA 4 hardware and adaptors where it takes the weather? And maybe some foam sealant where the romex enters the house. The house isn't the source of the salt air, after all.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Depending on the complexity and number of external circuits (switches and the like), we used intrinsically safe circuits pretty frequently. That made the X-P box huge (I recall some that were over a thousand pounds) but the external wiring was much easier, and the crane-control pushbutton station could be held in one hand instead of needing a little crane of its own. A big X-P PB station could be 5 feet long! I worked on these suckers, actually on the mechanical side of things:
View Image
Good point - only the box and the attachments to the box would really need to maintain something like NEMA 4x standards. A couple of good cable glands should handle that need easily.
didI have
misplaced my pants
I know that the type of enclosure you are looking for is available. I have worked on a few of them. Most were aluminum and and one or two stainless steel. I would have more faith and probably need more money for the stainless models. Where they were purchased I don't know.
I have also seen them listed in several manufacturers catalogs. I think it was Square D and GE but it was several years ago so I'm not sure. I tried to find something on the Square D, GE and Cutler Hammer web sites but couldn't find anything that would help you. I'm pretty sure that these companies carry what your looking for but finding the part numbers, descriptions, specs and prices is the trick. I also remember adds for a non-metallic panel but I don't remember any details as to who has such a thing nor do I know anyone who has installed or even worked on this product so I'm not sure I would trust it.
Your best bet may be to go to an electrical supply house and ask or flip through a few catalogs. It has been some time since I have been to a supply house. The company has gophers to chase materials. I will keep looking and post any information.