Oceanfront home- front door 65′ from beach. Very little roof overhang and no other protection from elements; in bad storms, it’s like a firehose is pointed at the door. I’ve managed to get it almost watertight with carefull fitting, a very tight threshold and weatherstripping, but still get a little water on the floor when it rains- any tips? California climate means a storm door would be very unusual and odd- looking.
Thanks
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You need one of the doors I saw on the sea-side of homes in Norway -- it actually had two latches on each side, kinda like a submarine hatch.
Aside from that, a steel door with a magnetic weatherstrip will seal a lot tighter than most other combos.
So, what do you want, unusual, or water on the floor. I think that is your choice. You should be able to choose storm doors that are attractive and stylish.
I've got some experience on the Texas Gulf Coast at Port Aransas, and the problem with the steel doors with magnetic weatherstripping is that corrosion sets in shortly after installation.
Check out your neighbors and see what they are doing. Otherwise, you might try calling weatherstripping people like Macklanburg-Duncan, or Pemko, or National Guard Products and see what's out there.
"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
"So, what do you want, unusual, or water on the floor. I think that is your choice. You should be able to choose storm doors that are attractive and stylish."Good point- the floors are stone, so a little water isn't too big a deal, may actually choose wet floor over a second door. Also used 'plastic' jamb and casings, wall is brick facade over concrete block."I've got some experience on the Texas Gulf Coast at Port Aransas, and the problem with the steel doors with magnetic weatherstripping is that corrosion sets in shortly after installation.
Check out your neighbors and see what they are doing. Otherwise, you might try calling weatherstripping people like Macklanburg-Duncan, or Pemko, or National Guard Products and see what's out there."Exactly. I used some "stainless steel" screws on the exterior weatherstripping, rust within a week. Replaced 'em with better quality stainless screws, OK so far. Neighbors keep towels by the door.Maybe if I pressurized the inside of the house with a big fan so nothing could penetrate small openings? : )side note- I was recently told of a McMansion owner who's having his master bedroom built as a hyperbaric chamber (lower oxygen content) to beter prepare him for his ski weekends.Bill
Edited 9/12/2006 3:27 pm ET by PGproject
PG,You wrote: "side note- I was recently told of a McMansion owner who's having his master bedroom built as a hyperbaric chamber (lower oxygen content) to beter prepare him for his ski weekends."That would be "hypobaric" if the air pressure is lower than the rest of the house. Hyperbaric chambers are used to treat decompression sickness in divers, among other things, and are operating above normal atmospheric pressure.Whatever it is, I wonder how big the room is? Even a few psi lower would collapse normal house framing. Sounds expensive, but like a fun project.Bill
Yeah... what's confusing to me is that apparently it has nothing to do with pressure (although certainly pressure is lower at altitude), it has to do only with the oxygen content in the room's air. Atheletes somnetimes use this technique to prepare for high-altitude events, i'm told...Bill
PG,If he is using a system that adjusts the oxygen levels as a % of the total air, without changing the overall pressure, that would be a lot easier to build. Just need a good air barrier and super-detailed door from the hall. Plus the high-tech atmospheric adjustment gear, of course.So is the guy doing "oxgen loading" before his ski days, or is he doing pre-acclimation with lower O2 levels? It is all quite fascinating, really.Bill
not sure- I got this from my plumber friend who told me the guy bailed on the idea due to expense- there was to be a completely separate HVAC system for the bedroom. My friend understood it to be a lower oxygen content setup, but then he talked about bicycle racers doing this before races- that sounds more like they'd wanna 'load up' on O2 B4 a race...
I keep thinking about htis. It seems counter-intuitive. He is providing his body with a higher percentage of O2 at a higher barometric pressure for long periods( all night) to prepare it to be able to handle a lower percentage of O2 at a lower barometric pressure if this is a hyperbaric chamber. and yes, it would be very expensive.
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on your side note - a hyperbaric chamber is one that provides a higher than normal oxygen percentage - generally as a treatment for various medical conditions. that can theoreticly still help prepare for high altitude activity by adding to the stored oxy in the tissues.
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no storm door... no warranty
doors in coastal communites need storm doors
they don't want them, don't call me when they leak
Are you okay with gliding patio doors or do you require them to be covered as well?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
funny you should mention that...
on one house we installed DOUBLE sliding doors... one on the inside and then built a box and hung another set on the outside
so far we've been pretty lucky with Andersen.. but i always sweat it when people ask for sliders around the waterMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We're having an issue with an Andersen 8/0 perma shield glider that we installed last year.The supplier (not our usual one, they don't sell Andersen) and the local sales rep were not much help. So I wrote a nice polite letter to the president of Andersen explaining our problems. I have to give them credit, I received a call today from a girl at Andersen who seemed eager to help. We'll see how it all works out.We've been quite fortunate to have very few water problems up until the past several weeks. One weeked we had three calls- one was a basement we're doing that had water coming through the windows (not our deal), and then a french door that leaked due to improper instalation, finally a bit of carpet got wet due to some Tyvek not lapped while waiting for back-ordered siding.I think water is the biggest enemy to any builder and I know I'm certainly going to take the details more seriously from here on out.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
last issue we had was assembling the frame..
one of the guys didn't follow Andersen's instructions on bedding the jamb to the sill and it leaked in certain wind conditions..
pulled it out , disassembled it , bedded it and re-installed it.. no more leaks
the tray the door slides into is like a boat.. the lack of bedding meant our boat bottom had a hole in it.. allowing the water to fill the tray and leak in instead of outMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The biggest cause of leaks in Andersen sliders is from bad installations. They MUST assemble the frame/jamb according to instructions with the right caulk in the right places, and they MUST install it square and plumb. After that, it is a good idea to keep it closed in storms. I had one like that to deal with once. The wife finally admitted that her hubby only thought it was closed.
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Mike & Paul,Thanks for your input. I hope we can get this all sorted out. From here on out, I will be much more cognizant of proper design making this problem less likely.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I expect sliders to lleak more than swingers.Good luck with MarvinsAs with roof guitters issue, good design can avoid some of this, but there is still the big fantasy issue to overcome.
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I'll second the storm door.
I've got 3 exterior doors looking down the throat of the occassionally horrific storms that blow up and smack into the Oregon coast. No door, by itself, its going to keep all that water out. I've learned through experience there are several things the builders got to do if the doors facing the storms are going to stay sealed:
1. Storm door that breaks the storm. It won't keep the exterior door dry, just acts as the first line of defense.
2. Door pans, that are pitched down, and lapped into by the #30 felt wrapped into the door frame.
3. Vulcum at all joints...ALL OF THEM!
4. Stainless Z-mold over the door casing.
5. Solid, not finger jointed brick mold.
6. For flanges, as with a vinyl slider, Grace Water/Ice shield to seal the flange.
And even with all of this, with the infrequent storm with 100 mph or greater gusts, count on water blowing up into crevices no one could possiby see, make sure theres at least some ventillation from the inside so that things can dry out. Dry rot happens when moisture has no where to go.
BruceM
Haven't seen anyone mention an adjustable threshold. Not a cure-all, but permits the bottom seal to be kept as tight as reasonably possible.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Andersen Permashield patio door at it's best. I haven't found one yet to leak that wasn't due to improper installation.View Image
Three point locking hardware is a must. Andersen, Marvin, and Pella all have this. Probably others tooo.
Then get a good AL storm/screen on it.
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one word....door pan
get a stainless steel door pan that your door sits on top of and has a 3/4 inch flang at the back of sill plate(interiour)...so if i meen when water get under the door it will be stoped by the DOOR PAN...a must here in oregon ...funny because i just realize the GC on the job im working on never put one in and he has spendy wood floors that will be ruined come first rain (thursday) i will get to watch the new wood floors suck up the rain...
The first thing to do is find out where, exactly, the water is coming in. It is not unusual to see it come thru the panels. You mentioned plastic jambs, so that rules out most of your sealing options. Besides the compressible foam perimeter weatherstrip, spring bronze can be nailed in the rabbet to help seal things, it is great at stopping all sorts of things, and can be slightly adjusted to seal even tighter. It will not nail into plastic, though.
Pemko, and others, offer a bronze threshold cap that mounts on a wood sill (you do have a wood sill, don't you?) and a j-hook that mounts to the bottom of the door. Mount the cap in good quality caulk to prevent water from blowing under the cap. You can even be beef up the seal by adding a thin bead of silicone in the crook of the j-hook to make a tighter seal.
You will also want to seal the latch hardware with caulk to prevent water from blowing into the latch and rusting (did you spec stainless?). A three point latch can be retro fitted to wood doors and wood jambs to seal even tighter. Or you can go to the the European style door with rabbetted edges and jambs, and better sealing all around.
You just won't find any of this at the home center. You need to find a professional door maker with experience in all these things, or at least needed to before you installed this door.
Dave S http://www.acornwoodworks.com prototype website
I have a similar problem with "Therma-Tru" steel doors. One set 2/6 french in-swing, one 2/6 inswing. The salesman from the lumberyard came out and said they were properly installed. He offered new vynal weather strip and the little foam pads that are stuck at the bottom of the jambs. It seems when it rains, the weatherstrip absorbs water, then it leaks inside. It also leaks at the bottom of the astragal. The sill is properly adjusted. Anyone have similar problems with Therma-Tru?live, work, build, ...better with wood
steve.. i've installed peachtree, Stanley, brand x, therma-tru, marvin... yadda , yada, yada
doors without storm doors like to leak,
unless the frame is absoultely stable in all seasons,
the door is perfectly adjusted,
all the margins are perfect,
and the sill weatherstrip is in full compression,
the little pads are in place,
and there is no negative pressure in the house..
got all those ? ... me neither..
i use storm doorsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,You’re right about the storm doors. What type would you suggest?I gotta lean how to reduce pics. I'm on a mac.Chuck
live, work, build, ...better with wood
chuck.. hard to see the door on the left.. but the one on the right looks like there is not enough height from the stoop to the sill , so it will tend to get a lot of splash & wind driven wash..
any of the new combination aluminum ones are good, especially the heavy ones with the double closersMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
We held the 1'Hardie 1" below the monolithic slab. Poured perimter "sidewalk" 1/4 below Hardie. Polyeuethane caulk to Hardie. I have hung many door blanks over the years using copper whether strip and interlocking bronz theshold and have not had this problem,
The front door on your adverse thread had no over hang and i think no storm door.
BTW What's up with the neighbors claim?Chucklive, work, build, ...better with wood
no storm door ....... YET
the neighbor(s) lost.... and i think the appeals time is just about up.. so dufus lost ... but not before they caused a vast amount of griefMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Adjustable thresholds are a lovely thing for stopping a direct breeze from entering , but if you have ever taken one apart.... stopping water is not what they do.
Personally I can say I have installed what I consider lots of exterior doors. I have never had one leak. I don't know what it is I'm doing that is causing this but I will continue to think like a drip.
And on that note I received my latest edition of coastal contractor which had an indepth article on waterproofing doors. Anyone have an issue with installing an expensive copper pan under a door with an aluminum threshold?
> Adjustable thresholds are a lovely thing for stopping a direct breeze from entering , but if you have ever taken one apart.... stopping water is not what they do.Right, but if air can't get in, and draining water is handled by gravity correctly, the water won't blow in.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Sledgehammer said:"And on that note I received my latest edition of coastal contractor which had an in depth article on waterproofing doors. Anyone have an issue with installing an expensive copper pan under a door with an aluminum threshold?"Answer: Adverse chemical reaction....you should write a note to the editor....
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