I have been told there is a truss designer hanging around this forum…Hope I can pick his brain….
We have a 5-year old garage at our lake house in western Maryland. We recently purchased the property and the top of the garage is un-finished. They have used attic trusses that span the entire width of the garage which is about 21-22 feet. No center support. The bottom member of the pre-fabbed trusses is 2 x 8’s and the rest of the members are 2×4’s. The joists are set on 24 inch centers. Essentially, we end up with a room above the two car garage that is about 11-12 feet wide and as long as the garage which is about 20 feet.
I have spoken to a truss manufacturer a while back when we were thinking of putting a pool table up there. He said I would have to “heavy-up” if we did that or put some type of center support which I do not want to do because we are always backing the boat and personal watercraft in and out. I am not doing that!!! All I want to do is to drywall the area and use it for kids “romper-room”. Carpeted with a few chairs, tv and all the kids junk they can stuff up there. Possibly a few sets of bunk beds….How can I determine if I can support the weight with what I have….
Replies
You probably need to listen to the truss supplier. The existing trusses probably weren't designed to handle floor loads and would need to be "heavied up" to do it without sagging.
I've lost count of the garage ceiling joists I've seen that were sagging under the weight of boxes of "stuff" sitting on sheets of plywood. The homeowners see all that empty space and decide that it's a great place to store their old college text books, magazine collections, grandma's old china, and that set of free weights they don't use anymore. Then, they pizz, moan, and complain about how the builder did a shoddy job. - lol
SWMBO is the queen of the packrats and when we moved here 27 yrs ago, I told her that the only "stuff" she could store in the garage attic had to be stuff that SHE could carry up the ladder. Quite a bit of stuff has accumulated up there over the years, but I doubt if it's more than 1 psf. - lol
I have those attic trusses in my garage. They worked out pretty well, and I have a nice attic for storing stuff, but I wouldn't put a pool table up there. The floor is 3/4" tongue and groove plywood, glued and screwed, but there's still a little bit of bounce if you jump up and down (and with a bunch of teens there'll probably be some jumping around up there.) Boss Hog can probably reply to this more professionally, but I think they're meant more for dead storage space rather than for live loads.
You want to post to BOSS HOG. He is the truss expert around these parts.
Have a good day
CLiffy
Hey Boss there be a question fer ya!
A picture would help so Boss can see the truss design.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
the property is located about 100 miles from here...I'll have to get that in a few weeks when I am up there...I hear ya!! a picture is worth a 1000 words!!
<the property is located about 100 miles from here...a picture is worth a 1000 words!!>
Ahh - but is it worth a hundred miles?
Forrest
It would be worth it if we had to start the work immediately. However, we have some time...-brian
Guess I'm the "designated Designer", huh ???Actually I'm not the only truss guy who checks in here. But the other 2 don't ever say much. (If you guys are reading this, I wish you would speak up more)If I understand your description right, it sounds like you have what I would consider to be a "typical" attic truss. Around here they're designed for a 40# live load, just like any other floor system. But what they do in your area may be different.So will they support a pool table? That mostly depends on the pool table. If the room is only about 12' wide, you aren't likely to put a full-sized 1,000# table up there. Any idea how much your pool table weighs?As someone already said, pictures of the trusses would help a great deal. From that I may at least be able to give you some idea what kind of loading they were designed for.But *IF* the trusses were designed for a full 40# load, and *IF* the pool table isn't a full sized one I doubt you'd have any problems.
Anyone who says he can see through women is missing a lot.
Bosshog, I am giving up on the pull table. It is a big one and it is super heavy and high quality. I think I will give up on that. It is going to take me a little while to get some truss photos. I might be able to have a guy go over and take a few photos in the next day or two or I will get them the next time I am up there...I'bb be back in touch...thanks...-brian
I check in here virtually every day. So if you reply to this I'll almost certainly see it. You can link to pics at Photobucket and use them in your posts. Photobucket is down for maintenance at the moment, so I can't log in to get an example of how to do it. But with each picture they give you text to link to a picture no a message board.You can also attach pics directly to your posts. When you hit "reply" you get a message box to type text in. If you look down below, there's a button called "Attach files".
Customer: Waiter, this coffee tastes like mud
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thanks...I'll be getting back on this once I have some photos..
Bosshog, let' see if these photos make it. Again, I have a 24 foot span and the trusses are sitting 24 inches on center. -brian
What you likely have is an "attic" or "storage" truss arrangement, and the allowable live load the trusses were designed for is 30 psf or less.
Let's find out about the pool table. Real slate top? Any specs on its total weight?
To get real specific we will need a sketch of a truss, showing all dimensions, including the size of the plates.
My first look at this project suggested to just get rid of the pool table because of the weight. The table is 4x8 and it is slate. I am thinking it weighs about 500 lbs or so. If my framing is such that this weight in any way would make the structure unstable, again, I could abort the idea of putting the pool table there and just turn it into "romper room" with some bean bags, few beds, TV, table for games and a general place for 1-4 people to "bed down" as overflow sleeping space...
Looks like your attic trusses are fairly typical. They aren't really overdesigned at all, but aren't grossly UNDER-designed either. The quality of the trusses looks better 'n average.I don't think a pool table would be any big deal, as long as it wasn't full sized or terribly heavy.But if you want a REAL specific answer, you'd have to get the truss company who made them to analyze them, or hire an engineer to review the design.Definitely if you have any doubts at all do that now before the room is finished..This is one of the reasons I absolutely NEVER design any 2nd floor systems for 30 PSF. You never know what someone will want to do with a room a few years down the road.
Bosshoss, so....if we abort the idea of the pool table, are you thinking a couple kids body slamming each other should not be a problem???
I don't see any problems at all with regular useage - People and furniture. (No water beds)The pool table may or may not work - Kinda hard to tell for certain. If the attic trusses are designed for 40 PSF, and the pool table is 4X8 - Take 4' X 8' X 40 PSF and that would theoretically allow for a 1,280# pool table. Trouble is, the majority of the weight may be on one truss on each end of the pool table. (Where the legs are) That might make those 2 trusses deflect more than the adjacent trusses. So there are no easy answers. .If nothing else, it would be hard to use and walk a full sized pool table due to it's size relative to the width of the room.
Waldorf: That seemed like something very different.
Statler: Did you like it?
Waldorf: No.
Statler: Than it wasn't different. (from The Muppet Show)
thanks for the input.....I am just going to stay away from the pool table...-brian
You're absolutely right about what a pain it is to play without enough room around the pool table. My BIL has not quite enough room at one end of his.
Given that these trusses are 24" oc, and adequate for the roof load, would it make sense to put in new 2x8 floor joists centered between them, 12" oc?
-- J.S.
"Given that these trusses are 24" oc, and adequate for the roof load, would it make sense to put in new 2x8 floor joists centered between them, 12" oc?"
I don't see any way it would help. The 2X8 joists couldn't span all the way from one wall to the other one (24')
So the only thing you could do would be to hang them from the existing trusses. And that wouldn't accomplish anything at all.
Waldorf: Well, you gotta give them credit.
Statler: Why's that?
Waldorf: Well, they're gonna keep on doing it till they get it right. (from The Muppet Show)
" The 2X8 joists couldn't span all the way from one wall to the other one (24')"Why not? Oh yeah, trees grow shorter where you are! LOLI'd be more concerned that the new ones would be reacting differently to different loads and the cconnection with the plywood could bear the tension. Also that the new ones would be hardto get glued to the exxisting ply.Matter of fact, one issue is whether the existhing deck is 3/4" or not and if it was glued and aniled or if it was just tacked down since it was not necessarily intened for living space at the time.
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Ah. I looked at the pictures. I was thinking that the 11 or 12 ft. floor width was the span.
-- J.S.
i'm thinking of another issue than the direct load, which ccould be OK It is one of your favorite issues - vibration. This floor may have some shake rattle and roll inappropriate for the activioty that accompanies a pool table - playing pool. Unless every one agrees to stand still while the shooter is doing his thing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good point - Hadn't thought of that.Attic trusses do sometimes have vibration in them. Never thought about that affecting a pool table.You may actually be smarter than you look.(-:
Nurse Piggy: It's too late, Dr. Bob. We've lost him.
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Y U!!!!want me to ...
never mind, you got enuf troubles....;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Fasteddie, can you give me a quick lesson on posting photos...I do it all the time on photobucket when I post on http://www.woodnet.net but it is not obvious to me how it is done here. Do I just copy the hypertext link into the body of an email???
First thing to do in posting pics is shrink the file size to under 200k. About 150 works well. Much bigger than that and the dial-uppers have trouble opening them.
At the bottom of the screen is a button "attach files". Click that and follow the instructions. When you click the "upload" button, be very patient ... it can be a slow procerss.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
It sounds like you have attic trusses in the area of the room. I use these all the time that we need to create a conditioned space for a furnace located in the attic. Not knowing the design load your trusses were designed for, you can play it safe and consider installing TJI joists in the floor area of your room. TJI 11 7/8" Pro350 @ 12" o.c. (can span 25'-6"), or TJI 11 7/8" Pro550 @ 24" o.c. (can span 20'-3"). However, you have to look at the space you have at the exterior wall, the bearing point, if you have the room for the 11 7/8" depth. If not, you could use a Simpson joist hanger off the top plate, but that'll decrease your headroom in the garage under the TJIs. Your safest bet is to check with a structural engineer.
If you're referring to DC Lake, you need to keep static snow loads in mind. Not sure what pitch you have, but the potential exists (especially in that area) for some tremendous snow loads. Especially with the wet heavy snow that MD winters tend to deliver. Just a thought.
we are talking about DCl. Great point.....thanks for the thought!!