Replies

1. 
   dovetail97128 | Jul 07, 2007 03:34am | #1

   It will have four legs instead of two?

   "Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca

1. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:37am | #2

   Funny guy...I'll see you in the tavern later...

2. 
   MisterT | Jul 07, 2007 03:39am | #3

   shoulda went with 221

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   Fixing a hole in the ocean
   Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah
1. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:42am | #4

   They're coming out of the woodwork tonite.
   You remember the Seinfeld episode with Kramer buying the black market shower heads from the Serbians? That was my experience this morning.

3. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 07, 2007 04:00am | #5

   Sorry, but it will burn up when you connect the 220 motor to the 240 supply.

   BTW, where did you find a 220 volt pump? Must be DC left over from Edision's days.

   Seriously your question like asking if my vechicle will perform better when if I replace the 10 hp engine with a 100 hp one.

   Well if that "vehicle" was a go kart the 100 mp engine would probably bend the frame and it would not go anyplace (at least not in a controlled manor).

   And if that vehicle was a car the 10 hp would not have moved over a snails pace.

   Yes, changing from a 1/2 to 1 hp pump will make a difference. It will cost more.

   It can also make a difference pumping performance. But do you need that increase. And there are other specs than just horsepower that need to be specified to determine if the pump is will perform or not.

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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
1. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 04:04am | #6

   Thanks for your input Bill, always scintillating.The swap won't cost me a penny as the well driller will do it no charge.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 07, 2007 04:09am | #7

   No charge for the swapout.Or not charge for a more expensive pump that it was orginally..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

1. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 04:12am | #8

   No charge for the swap out or the more expensive pump. He figures the 110 is adequate but will give me the other if I want it. Just wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts on if it will make a noticeable difference.

1. 
   shelternerd | Jul 07, 2007 04:19am | #9

   You don't say what your depth or yield is. A 300 foot well with 5 GPM and 25' will do just fine with the 1/2 horse pump set at 200' a 600 foot well with 1/2 GPM at 50' will benefit from the bigger pump because as the hole draws down the pump needs to lift more water above the static level. The bigger pump will probably not work as hard at any rate and will likely last longer as a result. One thing I notice about water pump guys is they tend to be obsessive compulsive types. They like cleanliness and order. The ones I know are so obsessed about their reputation that they will bend over backwards to satisfy a client. But they do get paid well for it. ------------------

   "You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."

2. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 04:22am | #11

   So true. The well is only about 60' deep, but I'm on the eastern end of LI with the Atlantic all around me, so the water table is quite high. Not sure what my GPM is yet. I was more concerned about the efficiency of a 240V (not 220V as I was corrected).

3. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 07, 2007 05:35am | #13

   If you have adequate wiring then the 120 is just as efficent as a 240 for the SAME HORSEPOWER AND DESIGN.But you are talking about two completely different pumps and motors.Now it depends where on the pump curves you will be operating. Which in turn depends on the developed pressure, flow rates, and pump curves.The 1/2 hp pump might be more efficent.http://www.flowcontrolnetwork.com/issuearticle.asp?ArticleID=152
   http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/BG-rightpump.asp
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

4. 
   JimB | Jul 07, 2007 02:31pm | #19

   Thanks for the links.

    

    

5. 
   BossHog | Jul 07, 2007 02:46pm | #21

   Is this a shallow well or a deep one?The bigger pump will pump more GPM. That could be good if you NEED more GPM. But if you don't have a big storage tank, I wonder if the bigger pump will cycle more, and possibly shorten the life of the motor. Can't think of anything else that would make much of a difference.
   Bathe twice a day to be really clean, once a day to be passable clean, and once a week to avoid being a public menace.

6. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:26pm | #25

   Well is only 60' deep, the water table is quite high out here. As you mention, I don't want to have redundant capacity if it is going to adversely affect the pump.

7. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:30pm | #27

   The wiring is new and sized correctly. I believe the 110 is a 1/2HP and the 240 is a 1HP. Unfortunately, I can't determine which is more efficient, I guess my tendency is to get more than I need rather than find I'm undersized later. Thanks for the links.

8. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 07, 2007 05:55pm | #30

   I don't know what the relative cost is and I doubt that the well drill will "throw it in", but if you want to have high volumne for irrigation, but also minimal cycling you might want to look at one of the new variable speed pumps systems.The other option is to use a bigger pump for the irrigation, but also have a much larger than normal storage tank..
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   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

9. 
   rasconc | Jul 07, 2007 07:12am | #17

   My well is about 180' and at last replacement went for 3/4 hp 240.  The 3500 watt generator my dad bought years ago did seem to be very marginal.  I just bought a 5500watt.  It would seem that if only 60' your driller may be right.  Sounds like your voltage drop would not be a problem unless there is a long run from house to well, an issue I do not recall anyone else mentioning.

   Bob

10. 
    Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:24pm | #24

    House to well is only about 20 feet. Is your new generator adequate for running the pump?

11. 
    rasconc | Jul 07, 2007 06:26pm | #31

    Actually the old one was borderline.  I have not ever tried either one. Both  should be able to run 240.  We do not get too many outages that are of any duration thank goodness.  I have not figured how I am going to set it up.  Initially will set it up to be able to run pump and oilfired furnace and freezer and couple of refrigerators every once in a while. 

    The house is sort of a duplex, added on 1724 sqft to a 1350ft '50s box.  Each has a panel and combined 400 amp svc.  New side has heat pump so we would retreat to the original part in extended outage.  Also have a couple of wood burning options there.

    As others guess they are portable generators. 

12. 
    BilljustBill | Jul 07, 2007 05:31am | #12

    SN,

    But they do get paid well for it.

    That's a good one!!

    Bill

13. 
    dovetail97128 | Jul 07, 2007 04:21am | #10

    If all costs are the same (which is what I am understanding ) then I would opt for the 220. I think you will get longer service life out of it."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca

4. 
   BilljustBill | Jul 07, 2007 06:09am | #14

   TGNY,

   The extra horsepower will get you more gallons per minute  IF  your well can handle the extra water being pulled out.  If your new well isn't strong enough, you'll get a stream of water for awhile then it will start to pulse both air and water.  When that starts, pinch back the hose(s) water flow until you get your steady stream of water.

   Living with several depths of water wells, I've learned some things. 

        You most likely saw the driller let the pump run for several hours to clean out the new well.  It's going to take more than that, and in the meantime, the light sand will come into the home's pipes and appliances.  Drain your Water heater the first few weeks and then once a month for 2 or three months. If you don't, it will build up in the bottom of the Water heater causing a gas heater to use more fuel to get the water hot.  If it isn't drained away like I described, you'll find that the drain faucet will slowly drain or completely clog.

        Check the water tank of your bathroom commodes.  You'll find very fine "silt" on the bottom of the tanks.  Hold the flush valve open and swish out the sediment.

      Clean the cold water inlet to your clothes washer.  The silt and sand will clog the fine screen at the end of the cold water.

        When you water your grass and shrubs, use enough open hoses to keep the pump running constantly.  It's the cycling On and Off that's a killer on the electric bill, as well as on the pump and bearings.  The motor of the pump is on the bottom of the pump.  As the 55 degree water is pulled out of the well, it flows over the motor keeping it well cooled as it continously runs.  I try to water and keep an eye on the pressure tank's gauge so I'm running between 35 and 40 pounds of pressure.

      If you have outside faucets coming out of the house, that means that when you are watering outside, the house pressure is low.  Showers are weak and the washing machine will take much longer to fill.  I ran a seperate outside line along the side of the house, branching off the pressure tank.  In the freezing winter  temps, I have a cutoff next to the tank so I can drain those lines.

      Lastly, I run my well pressure at 40 PSI to turn on and 60 PSI for cutting off.  It makes the flow of the water in the house more even and unchanging, compared to the 30psi On, and 50psi OFF.  Cleanup of all that "Foam" that came out of the well driller's drilling.  Wash as much of it as far away and thin as possible.  It will stay on top of the ground and when it rains, the soapy clayish slick stuff sticks to your shoes and tracks all over the yard, patio and house.  It's also very slippery, so shoes with no grips or with leather soles will get your attention as one of your feet slides forward or sideways!!!

   Nothing much better than a drink of cool fresh well water,

   Bill

   
   

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   Edited 7/6/2007 11:19 pm ET by BilljustBill

1. 
   Heck | Jul 07, 2007 06:19am | #15

   All day I faced the barren wasteWithout the taste of waterCool waterOld Dan and I with throats burned dryAnd souls that cry for waterCool, clear waterKeep a-movin', Dan, don't you listen to him, DanHe's a devil not a manand he spreads the burning sandWith waterDan can you see that big green treeWhere the water's runnin' freeAnd it's waiting there for me and youThe nights are cool and I'm a foolEach star's a pool of waterCool waterBut with the dawn I'll wake and yawnAnd carry onTo waterCool, clear waterKeep a-movin', Dan, don't you listen to him, DanHe's a devil not a manAnd he spreads the burning sandWith waterDan can you see that big green treeWhere the water's runnin' freeAnd it's waiting there for me and youThe shadows sway and seem to sayTonight we pray for waterCool waterAnd way up there He'll hear our prayerAnd show us whereThere's waterCool, clear waterKeep a-movin', Dan, don't you listen to him, DanHe's the devil not a manand he spreads the burning sandWith waterDan can you see that big green treeWhere the water's runnin' freeAnd it's waiting there for me and youDan's feet are soreHe's yearning forJust one thing more than waterLike me, I guess he'd like to restWhere there's no questFor waterCool, clear water  

1. 
   BilljustBill | Jul 07, 2007 06:23am | #16

   Thanks, Heck....

      After reading your post, I had to get up and go for a tall cold glass of water... ;>)

     Bill

2. 
   MisterT | Jul 07, 2007 03:01pm | #22

   Gimme some water
   cus I shot a man on the Mexican bordercool cool water....
   .
   Fixing a hole in the ocean
   Trying to make a dove-tail joint-yeah

2. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:22pm | #23

   Thanks for the info.I actually did as you describe, I ran the well for a couple of hours while draining the hot water heater. We had a lot of rust in our water due to the old pipes and the tank needed a good flush. I have 3 exterior hose bibs, and the primary one is the first branch off the tank. The house in question is a summer / weekend house so it only gets seasonal use. The old 2" well and vacuum pump was original to the house and I think dates back 35 years. It sat in the basement, so you could hear it come on every time someone flushed, quite annoying in the middle of the night. The new 4" well is PVC about 60' deep and of course the pump is external with a new bladder tank in the basement. I installed a GE whole house filter, but the rust got so bad they clogged up rather quickly and reduced the water pressure to almost nothing. The new pressure and flow seems quite adequate, though I wanted the extra capacity for irrigation if I ever go that route and was concerned about service life and electrical consumption with the 240V pump. But as someone else noted the 110V can be run off a generator in power outtages, another thing I plan to install in the future.

1. 
   BossHog | Jul 07, 2007 03:27pm | #26

   "...the 110V can be run off a generator in power outtages..."

   I don't see any reason that a 220V pump couldn't run off a generator. It would just take different wiring.
   Never be naked around fishing lures

1. 
   Lansdown | Jul 07, 2007 03:32pm | #28

   I wonder if he means a portable generator. I plan to install a stationary standby generator with an an automatic transfer switch, such as a Generac (or Guardian).

1. 
   BossHog | Jul 07, 2007 03:34pm | #29

   A one HP pump pulls somewhere around 7 or 8 amps. (I think) So a permenant standby generator should have no trouble with that.
   Beggars should be abolished. It annoys one to give to them, and it annoys one not to give to them. [Nietzsche]

2. 
   Scott | Jul 08, 2007 03:57am | #34

   FWIW, there are many basic generators that have a 240V recep. I've got a 5000W Coleman that runs my 1hp well pump. It barely runs it though. If I were to do it again I'd get a slightly bigger generator.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

5. 
   gordsco | Jul 07, 2007 12:37pm | #18

   During power outages I use my portable generator to keep the fridge, furnace, and well pump operating.  I would be in trouble if my well pump was not 110. 

    

   Gord

                           

    

    

6. 
   JimB | Jul 07, 2007 02:34pm | #20

   Might or might not make a difference in your flow.  If the smaller pump is capable of pumping enough flow to satisfy the demand, then the additional horsepower will just be unused capacity. 

   Impeller size and number of impellers also impact pump capacity.

7. 
   MarkH | Jul 07, 2007 09:59pm | #32

   I would use a 230 volt one myself.

1. 
   Heck | Jul 07, 2007 11:03pm | #33

   This is too deep a subject for me.