AAAAGGGHHHH!!!!!!
This is driving my nuts! Things are slow enough in this state without everybody with a six pack and a hammer out bidding me.
I went to look at a bathroom job last week. The lady actually wanted her whole basement done but the “bowling guys” said it would cost about $20k. I told her my bathrooms go for about $10k. She still wanted me to bid and when I presented the estimate (in person one hour drive from home) she seemed happy and it sounded like we may start this week.
I called her tonight and, not so much. She has decided to go with the “bowling guys”.
I hope these “bowling guys” have a clue what their doing, cause the bathroom rough-in that the builder put in is all wrong. This means of cousre that the concrete has to be pulled and the main stack tapped into.
I’m guessing what happened is that the “bowling guys” needed a sucker to underbid and I was available.
Replies
You might have got lucky by not getting this job! Think of it that way.
I was thinking how lucky I was while going through todays bills.
Seriously, I know what you mean, some people are just better to leave with their cheap labor.
Do contractors need to be liscensed in your state?
A call to the BI might thin out some of that competition.
Yes we do. I thought about playing the BI card (especially since they told me they didnt want permits), but what good would it do? I'd rather take the high road.
I usually prefer taking the high road, too. But I'd rather have a level playing field when I'm bidding against someone. Those guys who don't bother with liscenses or insurance really burn me. They drag down the reps of the rest of us.
I'm not sure I'd call the BI either, but it is tempting.
Honestly dont know if their insured or not. The way she spoke of them though (the guys at the bowling alley) it didnt sound like these guys were licensed.
Edited 5/7/2008 9:03 pm ET by MSA1
I'd let 'em get a week in and then drop a dime...teach 'em both a lesson.
If nobody's the wiser, the HO might get the lesson from a hack job(probably not, and just complain about ripoff contractors in general), but the bowlers use your money to buy the next round.
I'm thinkin they'd just as soon dime you out-they got the job by telling the HO all the stuff they didn't need that you were going to spend their money on), and what about the next family that moves in and finds out the toilet's got 2 leaking wax rings cuz they buried the flange under 3 layers of tile, there's no insulation in the outside wall, the bath fan just vents into the attic...etc.etc.etc.
I'm for levelling the playing field.
call her and let her know you are available for mid-job bailouts.
carpenter in transition
MSA
Ok, I give, what is the "bowling guys" ?
Doug
who is the bowling guys?
the folks down at the bowling alley talking, smoking and bowling
sometimes all at once
the tavern guys were going to underbid the bowling guys
OK, just never heard the term. Figured it wasnt a positive thing.
Doug
Wasnt a slam on bowlers or anything, that is just how they were described to me when I went to the ladies house.
I didnt know if it was some local thing or not.
Guy I work with has women problems all the time, our boss says to him "you need to start hanging around the hospital (for women) instead of the bowling alley's", figured it was something like that!
Doug
Yup, you got it.
Sorry, I thought about that after I posted.
When I met this HO her first words to me were that the guys at the bowling alley said the scope of her project should cost about $20.
I didnt know I was competing with these guys. I dont know if they're contractors or just people the HO bowls with.
I hope they know something though, cause the drain rough-in done by the builder is wrong and whoever does this job has to cut the concrete and retap the main stack.
The customer is going to regret that decission. If by chance you get to look at their proposal with the client, just give a slight but obvious chuckle and say 'Okay, whatever", and walk away. Client will stop you and ask what you know that he/she doesn't. Then just spell it out... "They don't know what the heck they're doing and they're going to slap it together as quick as they can just to get paid and get out of there, and he/she is going to be left with a butcher job"
There is a reason real professionals cost more.
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I wanted to ask by how much I was beaten, but figured it really didnt matter.
As I said in another post, I hope they know what they're getting into, the drain rough is wrong so now the concrete needs to be cut so the stack can be retapped.
Like I said before, i'm just pi$$ed cause i'm guessing my estimate was just something to beat by whatever margin.
I really cant be sure if these are licensed guys that happen to bowl with the HO or if its the guy that cleans the toilets after that big tourney.
Its always the guys from the local Gin mill around here, The more beers they have the better tradesmen they become.
To all who think that MSA1 should call the building department on the "bowling guys", how do you know that they are not licensed?
It seems like recently around here, everyone who is cheaper is an unlicensed hack, and anyone more expensive is a rip-off artist.
Why is that?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
To all who think that MSA1 should call the building department on the "bowling guys", how do you know that they are not licensed?
Major work+no permits=A pretty good start.
If there's a permit posted, forget it...win some, lose some.
I've had people tell me before that they don't want to get a permit. Just because the HO says they're not getting them doesn't mean the contractor doesn't have a license.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
True enough. The HO's statement has no correlation to the bowling guys' licensing.
But, what self-respecting professional would do it without a permit?(This is no quickie job that maybe only "technically" requires a permit...that one might tend to forego :)
Is it likely that they are unlicensed(not that that guarantees prefessionalism to begin with)? Maybe, maybe not. Don't care.
I'll simply stick by my opinion that: If there's a permit, forget it-win some lose some. If there's not, flame on!
If they're on the up-n-up, the call won't make a difference anyway.
What bowling lanes are the guys from? What city?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The HO lives in Chesterfield. I have no idea were they bowl.
Does it make a difference?
Only to the guys bowling with them.J
Chesterfield: the land of laid off auto workers getting 95% of their take home pay while they sit in job banks. YOu lost that job to the UAW scabs LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I know. Thats one of the problems with Michigan. Anyone with a truck and a hammer is all of a sudden a carpenter.
Worse yet....those guys already are getting their groceries paid for. They'll take 2 week job and be satisfied with netting $100, just so they can get out of the house! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I know. There ought to be a law......oh wait, there is.
My utter joy will come when (if their not licensed) they realize they have to cut the floor to reconfig the drains. I wouldnt want to be guessing about things like that in a clients house.
Edited 5/10/2008 2:26 pm ET by MSA1
It looks like you might get some relief from your subsidized competition. Heres an article from the Detroit News (detnews.com). It looks like they will have to move out of state or get a job! "Choice hits Chrysler's laid-off workers
Sterling Hts. employees among first under UAW pact told to take out-of-state offers or risk losing jobs.
Eric Morath / The Detroit NewsHundreds of laid-off Chrysler LLC workers in Sterling Heights are facing the reality of the landmark UAW contract they agreed to last fall as they find themselves choosing between out-of-state posts and the possibility of permanently losing their jobs.This week and last week, they received letters giving them just a few days to accept or decline a job at plants in Wisconsin or Illinois.The workers at Chrysler's Sterling Heights Assembly Plant are among the first of several thousand across the country who likely will tackle the same difficult decision as Detroit's Big Three automakers attempt to empty their jobs banks and return laid-off workers to productive positions.AdvertisementA stipulation in the agreements the Big Three reached with the United Auto Workers last fall allows the automakers to offer idled workers positions anywhere in the United States, rather than just within their region, as was true in the past.If workers reject a certain number of offers -- four at Chrysler and General Motors Corp., two at Ford Motor Co. -- they can lose their jobs.As the automakers trim their work forces through early retirements and buyouts in a bid to match production with declining demand for their vehicles, they are finding that some plants have hundreds of workers in the jobs bank, which means they are paid not to work, while other factories have open positions.By asking workers to move or lose their jobs, automakers can clear the banks, an expensive employment protection program they set up in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to make factories more productive. Workers in the jobs bank receive full pay. Reassigning workers makes good financial sense for the Big Three, which are fighting to return to profitability amid a shrinking domestic market."A jobs bank employee is the most expensive employee that you can have," said Fred Hubacker, a former Chrysler executive who is executive director of turnaround firm Conway, MacKenzie & Dunleavy in Birmingham.In addition, once laid-off workers are placed elsewhere, the companies can fill remaining openings with new workers paid lower, second-tier wages. Those hires would receive about half the wages of current employees."They need to get people out of the jobs bank as quickly as they can ... (and) then have a huge emphasis of hiring tier-two workers," he said.
Four days to decideChrysler sent separate letters to Sterling Heights workers, offering them jobs in Belvidere, Ill., or Kenosha, Wis.A letter addressed to jobs bank employees, obtained by The Detroit News, stated: "If an employee on Protected Status declines two such offers, he/she will be placed on layoff. Employees on layoff, who decline two additional offers will be placed on Formal Leave of Absence and will retain recall rights but will receive no pay or benefits."Karie Davis was among the workers who received a letter. She was given four days to make a choice.Davis took a transfer to the Belvidere Assembly Plant because she doesn't want to risk losing her Chrysler job, and the plant, about 65 miles west of Chicago, is closer to her Novi home and fiance than other outposts in the company's manufacturing operations."I don't want to go, but it seems that my chances of having a job there is better than having one here," the eight-year Chrysler veteran said, noting that the Belvidere plant makes more products and runs one more shift than Sterling Assembly.Davis said she hopes her time in Illinois will be short -- if Chrysler offers her another buyout package, as the company did earlier this year, she'll take it.The reassignment offers have so far been limited to Sterling Heights, Chrysler spokesman Ed Saenz said. He said the offers could extend to others elsewhere.Chrysler Vice Chairman and President Tom LaSorda said this month that the automaker is relocating some workers around the country as those accepting buyouts and retirement plans depart.Ford and GM are likely make similar transfer offers to their laid-off employees, but neither has done so yet.Another round of buyout and retirement offers at GM closes May 22. After that it's expected that openings will be created, and some workers could receive reassignment offers, GM spokesman Dan Flores said. "Any employee movement will be handled in accordance with the UAW and GM national contract," he said.
Moving difficultDuring a meeting this week at UAW Local 1700, which represents Sterling Assembly workers, union officials told workers they understood that moving would be very difficult, but encouraged them to consider the offers because it would keep jobs in the hands of higher-paid tier-one workers.The offers could affect employees differently, as not all laid-off workers are in the jobs bank. Workers are typically placed first on layoff, for as many as 48 weeks, and then flow into the jobs bank. On layoff, workers receive 95 percent of their take-home pay.Officials at the meeting said if a worker who is laid off but not in the jobs bank rejects a relocation offer, it would not count as one of the four declines. Chrysler's Saenz would not comment on how a rejection would affect a laid-off worker outside the jobs bank.Several Sterling Assembly workers said they could not uproot their families to take a job in another state. They said it would be difficult to sell their homes in Michigan's housing market but also conceded that finding a job in Metro Detroit would not be easy."For all the people who couldn't take the buyout, this is a way to force them out," said Joe Kavanagh, a plant worker from Monroe.Having less than a week to choose, he said he couldn't make the decision to pull his children out of school and move out of state. Per the contract, Chrysler offers up to $30,000 in relocation costs, if a worker gives up his or her seniority.Kavanagh will wait and hope a position opens at a nearby factory. "If I went somewhere else, I'd be the lowest on the roll and first one out the door," he said. "It's too risky." Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thats a good thing for me. But even if all the Chrysler workers took the out of state jobs that would only (unfortunately) be a drop in the bucket.
Not a bad deal in the contract either. Better to bring in workers from Michigan to fill the jobs in other plants than to pay unemployment plus hire new people.
How did Chrysler slip that one by the unions?
Imagine, something relatively logical in a union contract. Could the rapture be far off? :>)
Edited 5/11/2008 8:33 am ET by MSA1
Any chance you could just learn to bowl?sorry, couldn't help it.J
The "Bowlers Strike Again!" 8>{
hehehehehe
Har dee har..
Hey, I wunner if they wear Bowler hats?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Nah. Those hats are just for lawn bowling, which never caught on here. Is that what they do down in Bowling Green?
I dunno, I've never been there.
When i think green and bowls in the same thought, it ain't that kinda grass on my mind..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
You should wander over to the hops thread then.
seen it..cough, cough..Add some moonshine for bong water and ya might be on to something.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Moonshine is perhaps a mite flammable to be part of a smokin' apparatus, but hey, you might start a really hot trend. 8>{
see? some ideas just don't sound so genius when ya step back and sober up..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Thats great!!!
I knew I was approaching this from the wrong angle.
LOL