Well, we are really feeling the slowdown here in Florida. Phone just isn’t ringing and even have lost two jobs from previous customers as now EVERYONE is doing the smaller jobs we do! The big guys will do them just to keep their guys busy when before they wouldn’t have even called these customers back. Had an estimate to build a porch for some folks and some big company came in and beat us by 5% so the customer went with them. Kind of nasty for them (the homeowner) to do as we had done alot of work for them in the past but money is money I suppose. Part that bothers me is they didn’t even call to tell me or give me the chance to lower the cost. They just jumped on the new figure. Guy called me AFTER he signed the contract with the other company as more or less an “in your face” sort of thing.
We used to not do any job under $1k but now will do anything just for cash flow.
I imagine if it stays like this through the summer we will be another casualty of the economy. We’re burning through money on advertising, exposure, etc but no one seems to be spending anything on construction here.
Might be time to close up shop and go out and look for a job….Maybe its time to leave the industry altogether?
Anyone else feeling it or is it just me?
Replies
Yes. I'm feeling it for the first time since the early 90's. My problem is, I have been mostly working as a sub for a GC and before that was employed by a construction firm for a number of years as a foreman, so I don't have a large backup of my own customers.
It's traditionally a slow time of year and right now it seems that everybody is either sick or just doesn't want to start any projects until the spring.
Most of my career as a carpenter-builder I have been sought after and backlogged and this is the first time it's slowed down to this degree.
It's time to get back to the trenches and do cold calling and work the pipeline up to a healthy state.
Mike...whatever you do don't sit there on your azz and allow yourself to fall behind the curve.
Is advertising doing you any good at all? Or is it a waste of money?
Are you viable enough to even compete with the big fish?
Sitting around waiting for the phone to ring is the perfect path to disaster (you already know about the loyalty factor)
Toughing it out will only work if it's a short time downswing......BUT if this is long term, nothing will save your bacon unless you find a niche of some sort.
Don't wait to look until you have to sell your tools to feed the kids.
jj,
Thanks for the push as I need to hear that sometimes or I WOULD just sit there and wait...
Mike
Construction / remodeling economy has tanked here also, bigtime. We're no. 7 in foreclosures in the nation, and Stockton and Modesto, both in the same San Joaquin Valley as us, are also in the top 10. In my zipcode, the foreclosure rate is one out of every ten houses.
The subprime collapse hit in the middle of a boom, so it hit harder as a result. Big nationwide builders were going at it here, building idiotic tracts of 2-300 homes at a time. Contractors from the big burg (Los Angeles is an hour or more south of us) were all over the central valley. Everything being run on underpaid illegal immigrant labor. Suddenly there's nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Unemployment is skyrocketing, feeding the foreclosure debacle. I run an ad for remodels, and get nothing but phone calls from guys looking for work. Problem is, they're either illegal immigrant workers, or they want $20/hr. I tell them I'm looking for work - that's why I run the ad! I think every employee and every subcontractor I've used in the last year has called to see if I have any work. But I'm doing everything myself, with two part-time unskilled helpers. Not that I haven't tried to find more qualified help.
I had a guy (with some tools and experience) who works for $8/hr. at the local carrot packing-house ask for a job, said he hates where he is now. I said OK, I'll hire you, but check with Momma if its gonna be OK with her if I don't have any more work for you in 4 or 5 weeks and you left a steady job with a big company to work for me. Never heard from him again.
I interviewed three young guys from a local college woodworking class - just laid it out for them - its tough times right now, pay is not great, security is nil, competition unbelievable. But I need help and I'm hiring if you're really serious. None of 'em were that serious.
Local paper called and asked if I wanted to run my usual ad. I said No, I'm just trying to finish the jobs I'm in the middle of right now. Salesgirl was shocked, said you must be the ONLY (remodel) guy in town who has any work in progress right now!
Yellow pages salesguy came around last week - said they have had a HUGE dropoff in advertising from the construction / remodel / realtor / appraisal sector. Local glossy community who's-who magazine I inquired about advertising in like 6 months ago came by my jobsite to give me their spiel on the importance of advertising - so I'm guessing they're hurting for advertisers right now. Not that I'm likely to sign up at $450 per ad every two months!
The local Chevy/GMC worktruck dealer was stocked to the gills with white shiny new utility bed/lumber rack workhorse beauties - advertising "no.1 in sales nationwide" - now you drive by their lot, they don't even have any trucks on display - just some used cars.
Fresh in the news today - Hollywood real estate market in crisis.
I could go on.
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Edited 2/18/2008 10:09 am by Huck
Foreclosures usually means that there's some general repair work to do before the house can be put on the market. That's true also of divorce homes, and inheirited homes.
My first few remodeling jobs came from a real estate agent, someone who was pretty well connected in the community. If I was looking for work in bad economic times, I'd visit the owners of local RE agencies and pitch my services.
Just be prepared to take it all on, then hire others to do certain specialties. That's what RE people want to hear; that you can do it all, start very soon and complete the job in two weeks.
When the money is coming from the HO or bank, I asked the RE agent to get it for me, hold it in escrow, then pay according to a simple formula previously agreed to by the HO/bank.
Why have the real estate agent hold it for you? And how does the RE get it (in advance of the work??) out of the bank's hands? I'm totally confused. The RE gets a percentage from you?
Common practice in WA (at least on the west side) is for inspection before closing repairs to be paid on the closing by the escrow company.
Doesn't seem to happen in TX.
If you can afford to wait on closing and take the risk that the deal will fall through, you can do decently on the required repairs punchlist work.
As said above, realtors want it done right now. "If I wanted it done yesterday, I would have called you yesterday!"
Why have the real estate agent hold it for you? And how does the RE get it (in advance of the work??) out of the bank's hands? I'm totally confused. The RE gets a percentage from you?
One of the positive things about working with RE agents is that they're motivated to sell the property and get their big bucks from that sale. So when they have a seller who's needs some assistance to get the place in shape to sell, they''re happy to sell my services and even make arrangements for payment, no charge to either of us.
With a professional salesperson on my side, someone the seller trusts (up to a point), I can get a fair price for my work without having to bid against other contractors.
Again, the RE salesperson is only interested in moving the property. So I facilitate that objective and we become friends easily.
RE agents are often asked to refer tradespeople/contractors by HOs so they can be valuable people to know, even if their ethics may be questionable.
The escrow account allows two parties who don't know one another, me and the seller, to do business comfortably. We have a simple agreement which states that, at certain points in the work process, I'll receive X $$. The RE agent acts as inspector, again out of self interest, and reports the work completed to the seller.
The RE agent likes the escrow arrangement because he/she doesn't have to account for anything but visual inspections.
Bankers are usually a bit more formal about these arrangements but that's never been a problem for me. I've only done a couple of jobs with banks as sellers. It's been quite a while but I don't recall any problems, just a little longer wait for the final payment.
Interesting. Good to know for future reference. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Glad to share that potential source here. All it takes is a confident smile and a friendly attitude to get started. The work is simple enough for the most part, just time and energy consuming.
We are slow here also. We had a sluggish October and November but December was good. January and February have been slow also. March is close to being booked. Really odd how it all is going.
I have laid off a few guys, cut my expenses, and upped advertising a bit. Not much is going on. Most of my competitors are not working at all or damn little. We at least have 3 guys busy and occasionally I think we should bring #4 back. I guess if it were easy everyone would do it. DanT
I just got back home from Florida. ( Ocala) In mom's Neighborhood there was a for sale or for rent sign on tow or three of the houses in ever single block. I talked to her banker who told me there had been some appraisers who had gone out of business recently. I saw the article in the paper that said Fl has something like 40% fewer home sales in the fourth quarter of '07 than same quarter of '06. Banker said that most builders she knew had laid everybody off and were trying to dump the homes they had now.
But then I heard that in the Villages, they are still building new for folks retiring and moving south.
I am getting caught up but I had been planning this for myself to get out of contracting and move to design and consulting. One kid who worked for me years ago - I fired him - is now trying to hire the guys I've kept busy for ten years or so. He has a big job, but they are leery because he is disorganized and used to be questionable about insurance and taxes. If that is the trend, then the advice is buyer beware.
but back to the buyer - That mortgage banker said that there is beginning to be some nibbling of interest from bargain hunter buyers. No big turnaround yet - but it will come. They will swoop in and buy things up to rent or resell.
One fact of life fro remodelors is that most of all the remo work that ever gets done happens in the first two years after a purchase. There is a cornice/avalanche of purchases that will happen when things get righted again. That means opportunity for the guys who get positioned right at this time and who can survive the belt tightening.
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Piffin,
Yeah, its bizarre as like you said most folks are dead and then one or two places lke The Villages or some places closer to me are building like wildfire. One company just started a 250 home subdivision near my house selling starting at the high $200s. I don't get it.
I hate to say it but some of the locals here are actually hoping for a busy hurricane season this summer as it means work doing repairs and rebuilds! Yikes!
Mike
Hoping for a hurricane?
You could do what the Wildland Firefighters do and start your own
(allegedly)
Lot easier to start a fire then it is to start a hurricane!
I say work for someone else doing whatever right now. It doesn't even have to be construction. Keep answering the phone for your business though, but sit back and wait for that well paying big job and turn everything else down. When you get the call that makes it worth it, quit your job and go back to running your business.
You know I'm right:)-T
Same as it ever was here in Western Washington.
I think it's because of the diverse economy we have here - large military bases, seaports, logging, Boeing, Microsoft type industry, continued westward migration pushing Californians north - but for whatever reason, I haven't noticed much change in the work situation since coming here in the late 70's.
In fact, I was surprised to hear in the 90's there had been a recession in the 80's. I sure never noticed. Close to 30 years now, and I can't remember missing a day of work I didn't want to miss. I don't think I'm unusual in that respect, either.
Lot's of work in these parts. And I don't see it slowing down much in my lifetime. Lot's of open land. Gentle climate. Wages are high and the cost of living is low.
"Go west, young man."I'll eat your peaches, mam. I LOVE peaches!
Not too long ago, just after my "Where In Washington" thread, I called the Seattle union halls to make sure work was still as good as it seemed over there. They had just experienced massive lay-offs and recommended I wait until spring before traveling there. I think that was around the end of December.
I then posted on the Walls & Ceilings forum as to where the union interior systems (drywall, metal stud framing, and suspended ceilings) work was, and of the few responses I got, they were pretty much all about some union carpenter that had moved there for work and was hanging on for dear life.
Now I'm not all that particular about union vs. non-union stuff, so when you say "wages are high and the cost of living is low," just how high are these wages you're talking about? Around here, a non-union remodeling company would pay a journeyman level carpenter about $15/hr on a 1099. An average apartment goes for $450 a month. Can you beat that?-T
Here, the 1099 guys are 20-24 and an apartment is 600
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It sounds like maybe I should go east. I always wanted to work on all of those old world homes in New England anyway. On the other hand, I'll probably have to develop an accent and start talking like the guys on This Old House. I better stop pronouncing my R's and such now if I want to stand a chance.-T
You can probably do just as well right where you are at by working up to it. I know you think I am just a cranky old man, but I have seen a lot of young guys keep moving back and forth across the country, or skipping from job to job, when if they stayed where they are and earn the way up the ladder, they end up in a better position than by chasing the green grass on the other side of the fence.Now to put that in context with a disclaimer - I got some of my best raises by quitting my6 job. they offered more to come back
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Around here, non-union construction companies are not something "you work your way up in." Most all of them are very small companies with an owner, maybe a foreman, and a couple of grunts.
Remodeling Foreman Pay: $18/hr 1099; No Benefits
Production Foreman Pay: $15/hr 1099; No Benefits
The businesses mostly function out of the back of a pickup truck, and the ones that don't pay the same. That's no future. I know of plenty of guys that have spent their lives trying to "work their way up" and then come to the union in their 50's just so that they can have some money for when they retire. I'll work for myself before I ever take that kind of a deal.<!----><!----><!---->
No offense to your business, I'm sure you pay your guys well and open up plenty of prospects for them. Personally, the only reason I'd ever work non-union again though would be for some quick cash. I worked non-union before I joined the union and I know how both games are played. You might've had some very good experiences with the non-union companies you've worked for, but I personally feel you should are one of the fortunate ones, because I firmly believe that your experiences were the exception.<!----><!---->
Anyway, spring is looking like it'll be pretty good for the union around here. If I have to travel for union work I will - that's why they call us "journeymen - but I don't think I'll have to though. However, one by one I'm seeing the small non-union companies drop off the face the face of the earth around here. On the other hand, a few more years of building capital and preparing for business, and I might not be working for anyone else again.
-T
Edited 2/20/2008 12:51 am ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
I really am never sure why you ask questions here. You ask, someone gives you good advice and an honest answer and somehow you manage to come back with a "know it all, seen it all, been through it all" answer that simply insults the person trying to help you. That being the case I can't imagine you needing anyone else's input. DanT
"I really am never sure why you ask questions here. You ask"
That's just it, I didn't ask that question.
Besides, him and I have been over this before and we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I realize he's just trying to help, but I feel I simply responded in kind.-T
I have a question for you . How many Million dollar residences do you see Union carps building in your area? Here I can think of a couple in my area. Building that expensive a home isn't about your skills a carp when you are the lead or super or GC.. It is about dealing with the owners and design team . It is all about personal interrelationships. Skilled hands are pretty easy to come by , skill in relationships is harder to find.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Should I take that as a hint that you think I need to improve my skills in human relations? I suppose I can be too blunt sometimes.
I prefaced it with:
"No offense to your business, I'm sure you pay your guys well and open up plenty of prospects for them."
So it's not like I was talking about his business. I'm was simply talking about businesses were I live. I went back and edited the statement about guys around here in their 50's "crawling" to the union. Perhaps that was harsh. Guys around here in their 50's don't "crawl" to the union, but they do come to the union for the very reason I stated. Besides that, I don't see how anybody would be offended by that post unless they either paid or worked for $15-$18 on a 1099 with no benefits.
BTW, I found his advice to "work my way up" in the non-union sector a little condecending. I've already worked my way up years ago. I could easily walk into a non-union company without starting at the bottom. I've done it before.
-T
Edited 2/20/2008 1:04 am ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
not at all. I was simply pointing out the reality of the high end custom home world is all.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"I've already worked my way up years ago. "Someone who has worked his way up to the top does not work for somebody else. It appears that you have totally misunderstood what I was saying. I must have misunderstood you too. I thought you wanted to make the big money, not remain in anothers employ forever.
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Someone who has worked his way up to the top does not work for somebody else. It appears that you have totally misunderstood what I was saying. I must have misunderstood you too. I thought you wanted to make the big money, not remain in anothers employ forever.
I must have misunderstood what you are saying. My apologies.-T
OK, Let's take it again from the top.However a guy gets into construction, he works with and around other people. They notice what he is like, what his work habits are, how he gets along with others, if he is a creative problem solver or a problem maker, if his process is efficient, etc, etc, etc.
Regardless whether these folk are in his own company - peers and formen he is working with and under, or if these folk are other subs on jobs, architects, homeowners, whatever - they talk about you and have an opinion.
They recommend you fro certain things.
If you make positive impressions, those recommendations pile up and referrals keep coming along.Maybe a little personal story or two to make the point...My first job in a union shop was at a place where it was open shop. You had to option to join or not. The way o got hired was that I had been shingling for a bit over two years and while working on a new residential roof one day, I kept noticing a certain truck driving by and for a period of time stopped. Couple days later, I got a phone call from the main supervisor at that roofing and sheetmetal shop. He offered me good money to be his shingle foreman. He was the guy watching me that day - and it was because somebody else had told him that I was more than average capable. So he went on a head-hunting expedition and found me. I found out later that I was earning considerably more working non-union for them than the union guys with comparable experience.Forward twenty some years later - I was here, working for an uncle-in-law's outfit on a remodel as a carpenter. Within a couple years, the owner of that house had me as his prime contractor doing quarter-million to half million dollar jobs every winter. We gopt to chatting once and he told me that he had been very leery of the outfit I was working for because it was a cost plus deal amd they did have some slow workers depending on the crew and the job at hand.
So when he was calling from NY and asking his wife how things were going and what was getting done, he said that she told him that it was so-so, but there is this one guy here who is always on the go, doing everything and seems to really know what should be done and how to do it, etc. That was me, and he was impressed that my activity stood out to her - she knowing almost nothing about the work.Another one of those little things that makes people notice is how you do little things says something about how you will do larger things. This same guy was having me do saturday work on small projects ( with full knowledge and blessing of my employer who was still the main contractor) on Saturdays. So one day, he asks me if I need to be paid cash or if a check was OK.
I'm like wowed by the question...seems somebody else had demanded cash only because they were hiding income from Uncle Sam. I told him it made no diff to me how he paid as long as he paid promptly because I keep full books and pay all my taxes.
He was impressed that I would do that when I had an opportunity to skate. It said something to him about my integrity. A couple years later, I was managing some property accounts for him and could call at any time and say lets move another fifty thousand into this account this month to do such and such. I had earned his trust by showing him I was trustworthy!All that took years of relationship building. I did millions of dollars of work for him and then others who saw my work and got good recommendations from him about me.I never set out in life to try to do the big jobs or go after big money. I just like to do the best I can at whatever I am doing.
I also try to listen to clients and what they want, so I can give it to them.There are hundreds of thousands of people who are looking for skilled building professionals whop will listen to them and perform to satisfy a need. If you can fill that, you will do well. People will seek you out.That is what I mean by working you way up.Someone who moves from place to place leaves much of his clientele and reputation behind him with each move. It can take a good three or four years to rebuild to the same level of income and reputation when you move. I have moved about four major times in my life, so I know. Never did move to chase money or jobs though
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Well said Paul !!!.
my experience is pretty close to piffens.... except while he waqs up on the roofs, i was in the army
but .. similarly... i built a reputation on integrity , trustworthyness, and word-of-mouth
and i haven't left town since '73.. which is really important in building and maintaining a baseMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ah, I see. That's very informative and gives me a lot to think about. You definitely have a point about having to build a reputation all over again.
I can see how if I moved even temporarily, I would be much more just a number. I definitely would not have the same pull that I do where everybody knows me. That can be rather risky, especially when the economy is as unstable as it is now. If I had moved to Seattle just before those massive layoffs hit, I might've been toast.
Thanks.-T
There you go! I think you heard me now.
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Piffen,
really, REALLY well said.
you know what else is interesting/-- when i think of the people we "know" through breaktime-that seem to be content with what they are doing--- the people that we NEVER hear complaining about money?--
all of them tell essentially the same story--the details are different-- the essence is the same.
also--with regaurds to the moving from place to place?- couldn't agree more!
I know--staying in the same place has been a HUGE advantage to me-unbelievably huge- i built my whole business method with that as one of the cornerstones.Not every prospective customer appreciates it------ but a great many people are community minded and prefer to work with people who are men and women of the community--and if you listen to them--they tell you that straight out.
Very good post Piffen,
stephen
I didn't really think I wrote anything all that spectacular - just telling the kid the way life works as an observation is all.But thanks guys
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well Piffen,
it was a pretty concise , real world illustration of most of the best business advice given here on breaktime over the last 10 years or so.
I think that's pretty spectacular.
stephen
OK, based on that recommendation, I'll have to go read it again and see if I can learn something from it!;)
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Wow.
That is a great post.
Very true.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Well said , another reaon for staying in the same place is after awhile you know who all the deadbeats and non payers are, If one networks with the other trades they say who ripped them off. This has saved my bacon many times, I would dread moving somewhere and not knowing whos who
"after awhile you know who all the deadbeats and non payers are"Good point!
The biggest job getting started up around here now is under management by a guy with a rep as the biggest liar in town who has caused a couple of contractors to lose big dollars.And the guy he has hired to be the 'contractor' is one who I fired years ago and who since has had trouble with the IRSIt will be an interesting scenario. They deserve each other. A marriage made in Hades.
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I bet they had a big write up in the paper too
Great post Piffin.I too always declined to discount for cash. I also tell them that cash is fine but I prefer a check because I was going to enter it into my books anyways. I don't like the idea of someone having something over on me. I don't look over my shoulder now and don't want to start anytime soon. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"I didn't ask that question."don't be such an azz. You ask dozens of questions indicating you want to get ahead financially in life.
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Out of our "gang" of guys i worked with in the carpenters union only one guy outta 20 ever made his retirement. They said they changed it now and under the new rules i would have been vested. A lotta bad years
It sounds to me like your experience of non-union work is as limited and inaccurate as my experience of union work is
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what's an r ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That's the middle letter in the word "wash" or the last letter in the word "idea."
my wife speaks Tauntonese..... (Taunton , Mass )
my family is transplant michigan.....
when i brought her home to meet them the conversation worked around to relatives
including Uncle Ott....
so Helen chimes in with " I have an Uncle Ott too !"....but i had to let her down easy
"ahem....... no you have an Uncle Art"....
anyways.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My aunt's name is Bonnie. She lived in Chester, NH for seven or eight years. She'd been there for a few years before her good friend and neighbor discovered that her name was not Barney.
Edited 2/19/2008 11:11 pm by ptp
now dats funnyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You are right. In my early years, I always started the spring season with a loser. Somtimes the loser would string me out for a month or more and in the meantime, I'd have to pass on several great jobs. I learned not to pull the trigger on those loser spring jobs and never regretted it. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
my dad taught me that and it was one of the best things i learned, While i was out busting my chops on a loser the phone was ringing for a winner, Tough to sit tight and wait though. I have heard people say they cant wait till things slow up then they are gonna get a contractor CHEAP.
agree on that too.
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Where is all this talk about 1099 coming from. If you know they aqre doing it for sure , call the IRS, they love those calls. If someone is a foreman, he must be an employee. I once had a contractor try to pull that stuff, the state and the feds loved it. This crapt hurts genune contractors and all employees who try to follow the rules. Some other thread, he talked about apt. for 450 mtn etc., it must be cheaper to live where he liv es.
OK, what do you do when the best help in the area refuses to work W-4 and maintains a business profile?
Maine recognizes an artisan status which is basically a one man operation where the essential rules of the IRS are met for independents
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Hey, my wife just bought a serger from an old lady in Ocala. What's yer mommas name ?
Naive but refreshing !
Mom didn't sell yet.What is a serger?
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As I understand it, a serger is a sewing machine on steroids. It can sew any stitch,on any pattern, plus cook a mean omelette......
The ladies last name was Hattle.Naive but refreshing !
I know this sounds sick...
but...
just talked to a friend who is busy.... doing?
inspecting... take'n pics...cleaning out...boarding up and maintain'n houses the bank has foreclosed on...
he even has a monthly fee to watch after every house... $50mo per to drive past every 2 days... he takes digital pics at every drive by... not huge money but he said he has 16 on his "caretaker" program not a bad $800mo...
he has gotten a few minor jobs... door & lock replacement... but he's already talk'n spring time... sees himself keeping the grass cut...
He got this gig from his bank... something is better than nothing...
sounded like an idea i'd pass on...
p
Last yeat was a record year for me and this year is shaping up to easily surpass it.
I see you've indicated that you are doing the small jobs that the big guys wouldn't.
Quite honestly, in order to survive like a big company you have to start acting more like one. Being a step above a handyman, for instance, puts you in a far tougher spot than being a step below a builder... if you understand the point I am trying to make.
You obviously have an adverstising budget so you are obviously operating in a mannner consistent with being a bit more advanced that the typical one-man show caprenter, home improvement guy.
Another thing that is worth its weight in gold is networking.... simply stated, it is not what you know but who you know. Get in with the right people and you will have enough work without spending a dime to advertise.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Pete
correction:
it's not who you know... it's who knows you
Jeffrey Gitomer
BINGO!! I just had a call from an old friend who now lives in Eugene. Wanted to see if it was Ok to pass my name on as site super for a winery. Who I know is how I find the people to work under me.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Yeah, that's cute and all but cute doesn't pay the bills.
Like I said, proper networking is worth tons more than advertising.
<!----><!----><!---->
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Ya know Pete, you mentioned something about who you know- or who knows you.
Matt mentions something similar with regaurds to a country club
My neighbor does something similar as well
BUT-------( note the emphasis)-- ya gotta have a certain level of social skills.
Personally-- I can't pull it off like my neighbor does( in person I am socially backward)
but my neighbor and I are pretty good friends- i have never been anywhere with him- that SOMEBODY didn't come up nd shake his hand-usually he knows EVERYBODY-- even if he can't re-call their name.
my son works with him in the summer------It's a landscaping company that he took over from his father and developed. according to my son-- they have basically 3 sources of customers----
one)is a local beer distributor( you would recognize the name if i mentioned it to you)---- the neighbor services all the households for the extended family that owns the distributorship( all of them--even after the ex-wives divorce their way out of the family!)---my neighbors brother is a salesman for the distributorship
two) is a local chain of italian restraunts-and the family--again you would recognize the name I think if I mentioned it.
three) the most important-----------all the other customers are connected with St. Vincent-St. Mary high school------- my neighbor went there, I went there- my wife went there, my sons went there, my neighbors 5 kids go there. As tradesmen,my neighbor and I are exceptions to the product that the school turns out- those kids are bred to be doctors,lawyers etc.-------It's a lot like Matts 'Countryclub clientelle------------- there is immense alumni loyalty--just incalcuable-- they really support each other---and my neighbor is a genius at tapping into that market---and servicing it well
I admidt-- I have never been able to do it---but he has the gift for it.
stephen
stephen... who u shiddin ?
i've met you at Cal's
saw you interact with lot's of perfect strangers
saw you throw out the first pitch at a Mudhen's game in front of 10,000 people
so... i don't think there is anything deficient in your social skills
anyways....
i find work everywhere..
golf , singing in the community chorus, Lion's Club, etc
generally, people would like to know something about the person they are going to entrust with a good deal of moneyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Calvins wife was a class act.
so was jim blodgett
if the 2 of them hadn't babysat me--- i would have puked on my shoes.
don't know if you ever saw those pictures i posted last fall in the photo gallery of my son and i "rock climbing" in west VA.?-- if i had to rank the scariest moments in my sheltered life- that trip to calvins and the mudhens game ranks in the top 4-maybe the top 3( the top 2 happened on that rock climbing trip)
i am moving in dangerous company now--- i have been running mornings with some "seniors"-- don't laught-- they are all experienced distance runners--at least 2 of them do marathons/triathalons and they are totally kicking my fat but. I think i spot the youngest one 20 years--- but they spot me about 70-80 pounds, LOL------ anyhow-- thy have bullied me up to a 5k----and I am now working on a 10k for the summer-----and there is a 9 mile race in PA I think maybe I might try on thanksgiving-- my son will run it with me---and we will run it at the same time one of the other semi regulars here on breaktime runs it also( of course his time will be less than half mine
anyhow---- if the 9 mile race is a go--who knows- maybe marathon?----- I am only about half kidding on that--but as far as scariest moments-- a marathon might top the rock climbing---it won't top Calvins on the scare-o-meter though.
Stephen
Things are bad here as well, and the talent pool thats left is just as bad.
All I can do is give you some suggestions that have worked for me in tough times. I have only been on my own for about 10 years, but never starved. I started with nothing and consider myself fairly lucky.
You are in the residential field, just as I am. But I went to commercial union contractors and put myself in their talent pool, if they had a job that they wanted to sub I would do it. I have a few of them that call me at times for projects that they just want to make mark up and profit off of. Be ready to take on extra help due to the scale of some projects.
Another place that I dropped cards off to was insurance companies, they are always looking for contractors for claims, its not that hard to do.
And lastly was realtors, I dropped cards off to them as well, this actually worked much better than I planned. Some homes needed alot of work to pass inspections in order to be sold and they called me.
I joined a local country club a few years back, this has been my cash cow, I run into my towns elite there, 5% of the people have 90% of the money and they all play golf there. It cost a pretty penny but worth three times what I paid. I go to their gatherings and outings and my name gets thrown around everytime they need something done. Lawyers, Doctors, Attorneys, Realtors, Business owners, the big fish you want.
THese have worked for me, I started 10 years ago with a truck and no reputation. I have become much more than that with these suggestions that I have justed posted. It's worth a shot, get some good cards made up and go sell yourself man. It worked for me. Don't sit there and watch others prosper.
Woods favorite carpenter
Matt,
A most impressive post. All really good ideas that don't require huge bucks -- except for the CC membership.
Walter
The CC membership is by far the best one I have done, these are the people who remodel their entire house because one of the other members did.
Last bathroom I did for one member said, "I don't know why we are remodeling this bathroom we haven't used it in 10 years and probably won't for another 10 years."
I looked hard at the industry as a whole, at everyone thats involved, that helped me get my name to those who need a good contractor.
Woods favorite carpenter
Matt,
I know a lot of folks here don't like Realtor and Insurance co. referrals -- but they are almost guaranteed work for me when there is storm damage or a home changing hands.
Everyone has their comfort zone where leads are garnered.
Walter
If hes circling the drain like he says then these are areas that have put me through some dark times.
Another is banks, put your name in their construction department.
Just some suggestions from me, in my short time in the field. Woods favorite carpenter
LOL,
"these are the people who remodel their entire house because one of the other members did. "One year here, as part of a half kitchen update, I installed an ASKO DW that was masked to disappear by using a cab face on the front panel. even I had to look twice to see that it was an appliance and not a cab unit.
Their biggest concern tho was getting a quiet unit because of the proximity of the dining room. The kitchen help would be running the DW when guests were eating desert and still visiting and couldn't hear over the old unit. The ASKO was so quiet that the help kept openning it up for a year to see if it was actually running.So over the next year, I sold and installed a total of six of those, two becoming a whole kitchen renovation
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Did the ASKO stay quiet over time? We have a Bosch, which we got because of the rating for quite, and I swear it has gotten louder as time goes by. But maybe I'm just getting used to its level of noise. It's not like I have a decibel meter to put to it.But a colleague has a Bosch, and she feels the way we do, it has gotten louder over time.
My last big kitchen job got a Bosch and that is my impression too, but not based on any standard of measurement and the customer has not complained. The ASKOs do seem to still be quiet. The downside is that a couple have had the brains fry which is a $600 replacement part
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I heard that ASKO was KitchenAide under another label, at least a while back. An ASKO was what we replaced with the Bosch. But I have no idea what the current state of dishwasher manufacturering is. I do know that I don't particularly like the racks in our Bosch. I don't like the spacing of the tines.
No - ASKO is a European ( Swedish, I think) company. The size is even totally different than American units - slightly less.Bosch is German company but made here in America.They might be marketed by the same companies in some places, but the ASKO is a very different unit from any Kitchenaid I have ever seen.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We have an ASKO in our new house and it's real quiet. We chose it over the Bosch because of the height flexibility.
I don't like that the top rack is on 3/4 extension slides, though. Imagine that? A thousand clams for a dishwasher and the top rack doesn't come all the way out?I'll eat your peaches, mam. I LOVE peaches!
Is the top rack one of those height adjustable ones? If so, does that have something to do with the 3/4 extension?I think we looked at a model with an adjustable top rack and figured it wasn't worth it. I think it might have been the next model up, so a couple hundred more.Still, I wished I had filled this one up before buying it. The spacing and layout of the racks is not so good.
when you come to PeachFest, bring your clubs
<<<<I joined a local country club a few years back, this has been my cash cow, I run into my towns elite there, 5% of the people have 90% of the money and they all play golf there. It cost a pretty penny but worth three times what I paid. I go to their gatherings and outings and my name gets thrown around everytime they need something done. Lawyers, Doctors, Attorneys, Realtors, Business owners, the big fish you want. >>>>Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You're on. I'll bring them. Woods favorite carpenter
I would golf if it were a full contact race. Doesn't matter how many times you hit the ball...first person through 18 holes wins...hit the ball and run, and tackle the other guy as he tries to get to his ball...get to the other guys ball and hit it back to the tee...Now that would be relaxing!
that sounds like a great way to turn golf into a "real" game...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Then, the announcers could stop that silly whispering and the crowd could go wild!
looking better all the time..
where do ya sign up???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Maybe it could be combined with paintball, and the sand traps could be filled with mud too.
'gators and pirhanna in the ponds??? (no going around)
trained golf ball stealing critters...
then ya have to start all over...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Then what will par be ?????
a beer each...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!