Replies

1. 
   FrankB89 | Jan 07, 2003 04:32am | #1

   I've used System 3 for boatbuilding, but they're pretty much the same (West and System 3).  Not sure what you're doing...the only thing with epoxy is it degrades pretty fast from UV so you have to coat it. 

   On boats, you do that with a UV spar varnish or a protective paint.

   Jules Quaver for President   2004

1. 
   JohnSprung | Jan 07, 2003 10:41pm | #2

   Thanks --  I'll look at System 3.  The West stuff is pricey, so it's good to have another choice available.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   EricGunnerson | Jan 08, 2003 08:36am | #5

   If you want to use Epoxy, go to the system III website and download their Epoxy book. There's a ton of useful information there on what epoxy to use for a specific situation.

   You can also get a starter kit that has some nice materials for the price ($11 when I bought it).

   Both System III and West systems have a good reputation in the high power rocketry community.

1. 
   bobl | Jan 08, 2003 03:53pm | #8

   http://www.systemthree.com/index.htmlbobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's cheat sheet

2. 
   DavidThomas | Jan 08, 2003 08:38am | #6

   I also have built boats (4 so far) with System 3 (out of Seattle). It is the same chemistry as West System. They have a pretty good book about how to use it and how not to. As stated, you must cover (e.g. paint it) to protect from UV. But within 24 hours is pretty conservative. I had some cut-off pieces in the shade for 3-4 years then a whole summer in the (admittedly northern) sun, before they clouded up from the UV.

   Makes a very water tight and strong coating. And wood flour to extend it if you are filling larger volume (also helpful for added stiffness). System 3 has fast, medium, and slow reactants so that you have a reasonable pot life at 50, 70, and 85F degrees, I think. I don't know if West offer those options. Nothing lets you work below freezing nor can you work at 100F - the stuff can protentially ignite (really!) if a pint or more is mixed and not immediately spread on the work or put into a shallow pan.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 08, 2003 09:23am | #7

   Yes, West System also offers a variety of cure rates and a bunch of different admixtures.

2. 
   alias | Jan 09, 2003 12:35am | #11

   dave they do sell slow and fast hardner it sounds to me system 3 and west as stated before in the thread are the same with diffrent names. heres the run down on products and accesories

   hardners-

   205- fast, 206-low ,209- extra slow,207 -special coating(clear fabric application, clear coating - clear moisture barrier)

   hardner cure speed

   205 -cool-slow, room (70-75) medium, warm - fast (minimum working temp is 40 degrees

   206- at room temp it cure is considered slow it steadly speeds up with the temp going up(minimum working temp is 60 degrees)

   207- at room temp cure is slow warmer than that is very slow and hot it rated at fast( minimum working temp 60 degrees)

   209 room temp is very slow and is rated medium when it is hot

   (minimum working temp 70 degrees)

   fillers-

   403- microfibers

   404-high density

   405-filleting blend

   406-collodial silica , these are all good for structual gap filling, bonding gap fillets for structual braces, hardware bonding, laminating

   407 -low density

   410-microlight, these are good for surfacing and fairing

   additives

   420- aluminum powder- abrasion resistance

   422-barrier coat additive- moisture resistance

   423-graphite powder- low friction

   425- copper compound- moisture resistance and backup antifouling

   501-white pigment

   503- gray pigment both for a painting base

   they pretty much covers it anmd i'm sure more than you wanted to know.....cheers.......bear

   as far as conservative painting , i just follow directions but i'm pretty sure you can get away with alot longer......

   Edited 1/8/2003 4:42:18 PM ET by the bear

   Edited 1/8/2003 5:05:27 PM ET by the bear

2. 
   alias | Jan 08, 2003 01:24am | #3

   john- i use west systems exclusively and love the versatility, as a paint or what they call a fairing compound i've usedon badly checked threshold's and window sills and any large flat planes that are badly checked they have fairing compounds that can be added to skim coat the surface and really turn it surprisingly void free . uv are an issue and paint within' 24 hours after the full cure if at all possible. it can be used without the fairing compounds, which would resemble the consistency of corn syrup. the one problem i see using it as a paint is when mixed and applied the reaction is such that with 70 degree lets say or more the stuff hardens up quite quickly and i know of no retarder. except lower temperature's when temps drop below 50 degrees it's significant at 70 pot life is around 20 minutes at 50 an hour and maybe more depending on the humidty. as you probably realize there can be alot of variable 's but really the stuff easy to use with a short learning curve . it versatile , as an adhesive there no better when used in conjuction with abatron system's you've got all your bases covered. wear gloves and resperator mask when sanding (all common sense). what do you want to paint?? you can get a booklet with the stuff that covers everything you need to know about it, everything charts, graphs, optimum temps. around my neck of the woods i get it at a place called "west marine" they got all the accesories ... hope i helped ... cheers... bear

   Edited 1/7/2003 5:27:32 PM ET by the bear

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/7/2003 5:31:52 PM ET by the bear

1. 
   andybuildz | Jan 08, 2003 06:15am | #4

   Bear

        Sounds like you're their sales rep. If you're not you should be.

   Be represented

                  Namaste

                         Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   alias | Jan 09, 2003 12:53am | #13

   SALES -------- i'd rather be in the geek show on coney island boardwalk. theres not enough substance to it. no creative outlet, everyone is a potential "mark". i just have strong likes and dislikes, when i like something i'll an overconsumer(ask my wife), but when it goes the other way. i can be freakin' nightmare, about showing my disdain. that rarely happens.

   on a more important note did you get your new"boy" yet, how about some pictures big daddy???? i'll be waitin' how about it heh?? : )...........bear

3. 
   BowBear | Jan 08, 2003 08:05pm | #9

   I've used West, System III and a B.C. product called Cold Cure. All have worked well and as everyone else has said need to be coated for UV protection. After three coats, wood was sealed. The Gougeons even used wood epoxy fuel tanks in some of their boats!

   My added thoughts. WEST, when I was using it (about 10 years ago) was quite sensitive to humidity. In high humidity it did not cure as quickly or to its full strength. The Cold Cure product was advertised to work in the rain! It did cure better in high humidity.

   The point being that each of the products has different characteristics and you should match the product with your local conditions.

   An ex-boat builder treading water!
1. 
   JohnSprung | Jan 08, 2003 10:24pm | #10

   Thanks to all, I'll be doing this inside during the winter so there shouldn't be any timing problem between the epoxy and UV block coats.  This is for the new windows, which will go in after the last rains in the spring.

   -- J.S.

2. 
   alias | Jan 09, 2003 12:41am | #12

   bob -with west your right with the humidity but certain additives can help with that, ill mix it up to the consistency of anywhere fron mayo- to peanut butter, making sure everything is dry around it (hair dryer) and if you can cover it all that helps with the problem.

   i'll have to look into that cold cure sounds pretty good stuff..... cheers..... bear