Seattle has been under a downpour for close to a month now. We had one clear day a week or so ago … then … back to the daily pounding rain. I know the ‘view from abroad’ regarding Seattle is that it ‘always rains’. But that’s just not normally true. But this year it is … rivers flooding .. hillsides sliding .. every night on the news more houses cracking, sliding, sinking.
I’m in the early stages of building an unusual four story project. The first (ground) floor is 30 X 20. Then, to one side of this, there is a four story ‘tower’ that is only 20 by 13 or so. I’ve got the ‘lid’ on one half of the ground floor and have been scrambling to keep the manufactured i-joists dry. I’m going to wait until Spring, when it’s dry for several days running and warmer to put the epdm on the ground floor/one side roof. With daily pounding rain and storm front after storm front coming through it’s been hard to keep tarps on it and keep it dry!
So — I went out to HD to pick up today’s order of 13 14′ tji’s. When the two young guys went to get them I watched and they were out back just sitting outside! They had neglected to call me when they came in yesterday … so this means that they were sitting outside in an all night drenching rain and wind storm which lasted well into this morning. When they brought them around to my van I looked at them and the ends were all swollen osb and the ‘spines’ on top/bottom were soggy.
I turned them down. And the manager seemed to think I had a good point, so I’ll be delayed a good five days or so but will pick up a new order of DRY i-joists next week. I really hated to see an otherwise fine order of building materials go to waste! And *some* of them l00ked OK — but knowing that they had been nearly immersed in water all night long was just too much for me.
Was wondering if folks here with more experience than I would have taken them and gone ahead and used them despite the wet webbing?
Thanks –
Terry
Replies
I wouldn't've.
SamT
Thanks for responding, Sam.
I just hated to see those lovely joists thrown out! They were packed pretty closely together so that surely ALL of the webbing wasn't wrecked ... mostly the ends and the outside pieces. But ... chose to err on the side of caution.
Just wondered if I wasn't being to damn picky.
T
Terry,When you turned them down and they told you it would take another five days for them to get you more why didn't you try a lumber yard? Where I'm from all lumber yards have I-joists in stock. Some of them are special order but they all stock them. Maybe they don't where you are but that's the problem with HD something like I-joists no matter what size they are is always a special order and takes way to long to get in.Joe Carola
I was just thinking about HD. Do they make you pay up front for an order?Joe Carola
When you turned them down and they told you it would take another five days for them to get you more why didn't you try a lumber yard?
I picked them up past the time of the local yards being open for one thing. That is one of the beneys of HD ... late hours. Also, I'm building this structure completely on my own; I know I can find other aspects of it to focus on until another load comes in. The reason it's 5 days is because I can't order again ... or have the order actually go in to the distributor again ... until Monday morning. Takes about two business days to collect the joists. In addition to all of this, HD gives me a better price than any of the local yards will -- I've called around and there's no doubt about it. I've had pretty good luck overall with HD.
For what it's worth, I never order TJIs the length that I need. I always order them a bit longer. Then I cut the ends down. It allows me to waste any damaged flange or web.
Actually, I do this too. But I've been busting my hump trying to keep the tji's that I've already put up from getting wet at all! So when they forked the load over to me and they were drenched and I knew that it had been raining steadily for 14 -15 hours ... I just couldn't say "that's fine". I asked to speak to the store mgr and when he arrived the moment one of his guys said, "they were sitting out all night" he shook his head in disgust and before I hardly said a word he apologized and said "I wouldn't accept them if I were in your shoes".
I was just thinking about HD. Do they make you pay up front for an order?
Yes ... I called this order in and paid over the phone with a card.
Why are you shopping at HD for lumber?
I've got to admit, i shop almost exclusively at HD. Tools, supplies, lesser orders of cement, lumber, electrical, plumbing, tile, roofing, tool rental, even plants. Over several years they've proven to be quite fair, well priced and decent to me. Even though this or that can be a bit of a hassle now and then, so can it be everywhere. If ever I've told a yard that this or that piece of lumber is this amount less at HD they've said "we can't afford to do that". Whenever I've told HD that this or that piece of lumber or solid core insulation or whatever is this amount less at a yard -- which happens only very rarely -- they've said, "we'll beat that by 10% no matter how large or small your order is." When you're working alone on a tight budget this sort of thing makes it's difficult to see why HD isn't a positive element in the overall equation.
I-joists are made with exterior glue, just like plywood. They can handle a certain amount of getting wet without ruining them.
but it really seems/appears to me that there is a distinct difference between plywood being left out in the rain and ANYTHING OSB. The webbing on the LP tji's is pure OSB and ANY OSB puffs up and separates and goes nuts ... looses its cool ... upon absorption of water. Whereas, it seems to me that I've seen plywood go through quite a series of serious drenchings without (visibly) 'loosing it'. Also, the LP website clearly states that tji's are for "dry application" and "to be kept dry".
Now I'm thinking that I should have gone through the load and carefully checked out each tji one by one and hand picked any that were still ok .. IF there were any. But you know .. "at the time" .. it just seemed really disappointing and like a lost cause. In the past they have stored them indoors while awaiting pick-up, and the mgr stated that policy was to store tji's indoors.
I don't blame you for not taking them.
Thanks for this. Thanks for all of your responses.
Terry
Why are you shopping at HD for lumber?
The CM
Edited 1/21/2006 8:27 am ET by the cm
For what it's worth, I never order TJIs the length that I need. I always order them a bit longer.
Then I cut the ends down. It allows me to waste any damaged flange or web.
It annoys me to no end that some places store I-joists outside without keeping a cover over them. I don't blame you for not taking them.
But - As others have more or less said - What do you expect out of HD?
I-joists are made with exterior glue, just like plywood. They can handle a certain amount of getting wet without ruining them.
But since you never know how many rains you'll get before you get the job under roof, it's best to protect tham as best as you can.
In your case, you did the right thing. I would have used them because I could not have waited for the new joists. Some of the houses that we frame are out in the weather for months before they are covered up. While we usually have a floor framed and sheathed in a couple of days at the most, it can rain and snow for a long time before the roof is on and the frame has a chance to dry out.
Our lumberyard keeps the tji's dry and we try to do the same on the site, but 2 ft of wet snow followed by rain wreaks havoc on materials stored on site. Fortunately, most framing materials can stand up to a fair amount of weather. In the summer, there is plenty of time for things to dry out. In the winter, we just have to move on. That is a great advantage to building your own place. Good luck.
While we usually have a floor framed and sheathed in a couple of days at the most, it can rain and snow for a long time before the roof is on and the frame has a chance to dry out. Our lumberyard keeps the tji's dry and we try to do the same on the site, but 2 ft of wet snow followed by rain wreaks havoc on materials stored on site.
I just HAVE to ask ... why not simply tuck a tarp in and around the material. I know that, building my own place on my own property, quite naturally I'm going to be as anal as I wanna be and that's that. But to me it seems that throwing a tarp over something and tossing some wood scraps down along the edges of it is SO EASY! I just don't understand why anyone with a load of "should be kept dry"s on a jobsite wouldn't take 90 seconds to cover them!
Hmmmm...
T.
I buy very little lumber at HD. The aggravation of dealing with the place isn't worth the small savings. Plus anything I've ever ordered from them has either come in damaged, incorrect, or weeks after they've promised. Find a GOOD lumber yard with professional guys working at the place, the service and quality are usually well worth the minimal extra price. A good lumber yard & salesman will do all your takeoffs etc. for you too which gives you more time to do what you do best
Maybe if you were recieving tractor trailer loads of lumber at a time instead of "13 I-joists" you'd better understand why it can be nearly impossible to tarp everything every night. View Image
We do cover the material but in the process of covering and uncovering each day the tarp deteriortes slightly and that six inch pool of water finds a way into the material. If you have a big tarp, and that is the only kind that will cover long tji's, it will hold a huge load of wet snow which must be moved by hand before any of the covered material can be used.
Can you keep your material perfectly dry? Of course, but it takes more than 90 seconds unless you are talking about a single night. You have a distinct advantage in that you are doing all this for yourself. You can be as anal about this as you want. If you really want to drive yourself nuts, try keeping the material dry after you have put it in the building. There are people that try to do this with tarps or you can rent a huge tent to cover the house which can also be heated. We have never been able to convince a customer to pay for this.
We do cover the material but in the process of covering and uncovering each day the tarp deteriortes slightly and that six inch pool of water finds a way into the material. If you have a big tarp, and that is the only kind that will cover long tji's, it will hold a huge load of wet snow which must be moved by hand before any of the covered material can be used.
Can you keep your material perfectly dry? Of course, but it takes more than 90 seconds unless you are talking about a single night. You have a distinct advantage in that you are doing all this for yourself. You can be as anal about this as you want. If you really want to drive yourself nuts, try keeping the material dry after you have put it in the building. There are people that try to do this with tarps or you can rent a huge tent to cover the house which can also be heated. We have never been able to convince a customer to pay for this.
Thanks for the solid response. You're right ... I'm dealing with a very localized, personally handled and limited situation --- there's no real comparison between what I'm trying to pull off and what most of you framers are handling.
Your mention of trying to keep the materials dry AFTER you've built them into the building is exactly what I'm doing. And it IS a bitch! I'm trying to keep half of my newbuilding covered (as explained in the op) and it is REALLY a headache. I now think I should have set things up and then waited until Spring to continue. Seattle has received wave after wave of pacific storm fronts coming through this year and it is making keeping an entire job site full of tji's dry nearly impossible.
There's a house down the street from mine that is being build, as you mentioned, UNDER an eNORmous tent. It's wild to see ... the workers can work away ... and you can see them clearly since it's a sort of 'screen' type material .. but they are as dry and comfy as can be!!!
Anyway ... thanks everyone.
Terry . . . . Seattle ((go Hawks!))
schelling,