I got out my ’03 IRC and tried to read up on this, but my eyes started to glaze. Bottom line is, will this fly?
New upstairs bathroom, has a toilet, shower, and vanity sink. The toilet is in an inconvenient spot to vent… I cannot go into the walls behind or next to it and get out to the roof. The 3″ stack is about 5 feet away from the toilet flange, and I’ll be connecting the shower to the stack in the manner shown. From that wye fitting it’s about 4′ back to where the vent wyes in. So, the toilet seems to me to be 5′ from its vent fitting, and then there’s a 4′ section of wet vent. Everything in the drawing is either 3″ or 2″.
The sink connects to the vent well above the floor… no problem there.
A few years ago I would not have thought this acceptable, under the UPC. The IRC appears to permit this, and more.
Replies
I thought the 2" vent pipe had to take off the top of the horizontal 3" drain before it hits the bend going down. My UPC is ancient, won't bother looking there.
I knew a plumber who told me that wet vents were often better than dry vents because the water kept them from becoming obstructed. Makes sense to me.
Bill
My thought was to drop down below the 3" elbow and bring in the 2" using a wye or combo. That way there's no flat venting... I think.
Yeah, I saw your sketch. The horizontal vent lay has to slope back to the drain, and it will be fine. What you drew will work, but may not be legal. I'm not really sure. Where's Plumbbill when we need him?Bill
LOL
How do I type the music to "here I am to save the day"
<G>When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
Our Hero! The day is saved!
UH OH Dave
Houston we have a problem.
Vent for toilet has to come off the top 1/3 of the pipe.
Wet venting is perfectly fine by the UPC which WA state goes by, but some locals don't allow it all.
Wet venting has to be done in the vertical section of vent.
limited to 1 & 2 unit fixtures
The wet vented section must be one pipe size larger than the minimum allowed for that fixture vent.
I be back with a quick (ugly) drawing for ya
TTFN
When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
OK, let's suppose the 2" in my sketch was not the drain for the shower. Then I have a legit dedicated dry vent for the toilet. It connects to the vertical section of the drain. Since this is in a 2x10 floor system I do not see any way to use a tee or wye in the horizontal 3" and rotate it upward enough to prevent flat venting, AND get it into a wall, AND prevent overdrilling a joist (actually, drilling in the top part of the joist). Therefore I put the vent fitting in the vertical pipe just below the elbow from horizontal.
I do see what you're saying about the wet vent being vertical. Makes sense. My drawing is bogus. I am violating code. I am getting red-tagged. I am a hack. I am out of the union and on the street as a low-life no-license fly-by-night git-er-done wannabe plumber. I need to get a rusty old brown van to go with my new enterprise.
But that's why we got these boards, see? Because guys like you can throw down some info on how it's done right and keep me outta trouble. Good thing this is just the bathroom in my shop, eh? You probably thought I was moonlighting off-license and screwing up someone's waterfront mansion. No chance, boss.
How am I to be able to type when I'm crackin up over that post.
OK I was able to find my kids program that was keepin me from being able to use the scanner.
Here is a quickfire drawing of how it's done by the book.
The problem in your drawing is that extra 90 that turns down into the vent fitting.
It could possibly create a siphon of the toilet when it is priming the bowl after a flush.
I didn't draw it but you could plumb the 2 together without wet venting it.
If you bring both drain lines into the vertical on the same plane then you could use a san cross 3" san cross with 3x2 bushing on shower side & top for vent.
This would be a simple back to back configuration.
"flat venting" is a strange situation that some jurisdiction get crazy over.
By definition the vent is not actually flat just have to slope it 1/4" per foot untill you get 6" above the flood level of the fixture that it serves.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
OK, I understand your drawing. That's a more typical stack situation than I have. The 3" comes up thru the slab and up thru a first floor interior wall. The problem is that there is not a wall stacked above. Sounds like what I need to do is turn the 3" down into the wall and connect to the stack below the vent fitting, i.e. use a 3-2 reducer at the highest possible point in the stack and vent there. The shower drain can come down into the wall also and wye into the stack.
I'll go to the other computer and throw a sketch in here shortly.
OK, mebbe like this.
edit: better to bring in the shower above the toilet? Or doesn't it matter?
Edited 10/24/2006 11:54 pm by davidmeiland
Oh so close.
If you were to pull a vent off the 2" drain for the shower right by where the vent for the toilet goes vertical then connect them together atleast 24" above the floor it would be text book plumbing 101.
Toilet above shower---- shower above toilet, either way no biggie their both protected by a trap.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
I think I can... I think I can... that calls for the san cross fitting, unheard of by mere mortals. Keller was just here yesterday with my shower valve and some incredibly expensive large self-feed bits. I'll call my plumber this AM and see if he keeps those in stock. They sure ain't got 'em at the local places.
OK I didn't look that close at yer second pic.
Still turnin that toilet down before the vent---- can't do that.
With yer second drawing you don't need a san cross---- which I think home desperate calls a double san tee.
What ya need to do is instead of a 90 on the toilet waste from horizontal to vertical , you need to use a 3" san tee put a 3x2 bushing in the top & a 2" street short turn 90 on that then run over to the wall with the 2" @ 1/4" per foot grade then vertical at the wall.
At that wall you need to use a 2" "combo"---- combination "wye" & "45" on the shower drain then 2' above the floor tie the two vents together.
Here's a drawing of it.
When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
All is clear now. I did not know that you couldn't turn down before the vent. Thinking about it, I've had the good fortune to do most of my drains in a crawl space rather than within a floor package, which is a lot harder. In a crawl space you can always use a wye or a combo as a vent fitting, pointing at least 45 degrees up.
A slight twist to your design is what I found today... a 3" 90 with a 2" vent outlet... I believe the trade term is a "low heel 90", which I can use to make the turn down from the toilet. There is just enough room for this height-wise if I go with a street 90 out of the vent outlet, as you suggest. Then the shower comes in below.
If people would stop bugging me to fix their dang houses I'd get this done and inspected next week. Thanks for all the help.
No problem glad to help---- uh wait I think that deserves a beer @ JLC
I think we're all talkin about thursday I'll have to check the thread.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
Yeah, Thursday evening. You know someplace with low enough standards to let us all in?
Let me get my Garth hat on------ I got friends in low............
You really don't want to hear me sing it's not very pretty <G>
Well last time I was in that part of downtown was for my union contract vote---- a bunch of ended up at gamecrazy right across the street.
Decent burger & a bar----- since it's a thursday the crowd should be small---- I'm guessing.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
I also get very confused by this.But it was my understanding that you and fixtures below the toilet would be wet vented. And that code does not allow wet venting for anythig below a toilet.
The wording in the code book is so bad on this it's ridiculous.
Yes the code says "that you can't wet vent a water closet", but that actually means that you can't run the toilet waste into another fixtures vent.
The last IAPMO meeting I went to that was brought up, the president for the NW chapter just kinda rolled his eyes & said "we have bigger fish to fry"When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
"Yes the code says "that you can't wet vent a water closet", but that actually means that you can't run the toilet waste into another fixtures vent."Yes. but isn't that what he has here.What is the purpose of the pipe that runs from the first floor into this space and then out the roof.Doens' tha vent fixtures on the first floor?
I hope not.
I didn't see that his pipe going down was a vent from the first floor.
If so you can't by code run any waste into that.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer