Can anyone give me some info on hardie board is it as good as advertised and about how much a sq. to install on a old house restoration
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Replies
Just finished the exterior on a 167 year old farmhouse with Hardie smooth 5" siding, intended to mimic the look of the old clapboard. Found that it didn't lay well, which seems to be a common complaint (according to the yard) around here. Hardie recommended face nailing where needed, but that seems like a recipe for disaster, so we caulked (a lot) instead.
Hijacking...
One thing I wonder about the Hardie:
Since it is not beveled, if you have to 'cheat' a few courses to get it aligned to a window, will it be very noticable? Seems like that would be a problem, since it relies on the board below to set the bevel angle.
Any opinions?
You have to rip a piece of timber to build it up to the correct angle, or just pack it up at your nailing point.
Richard from Oz
On my house, we "ripped" a piece of the fc siding to use as a "starter" to get the correct bevel.
We have used Hardi before with good results.
However, I used Certainteed Weatherboards with a 6" exposure on my house. Looks very nice and in my opinion, the cedar impresesions look very accurate.
Just my two cents.
I just shim to match the thickness as needed.Life and suffering are inseparable.
It looks really nice, but needs to be carefully installed. Face nailing isn't a problem, just make sure you seal the hole properly. (Make sure You're nailing on studs.) I charge $2.00 a sq.ft (one guy wanted me to calculate the windows out of the square footage!) here in BC.
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People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.
Jacob
You did tell him that you actually ADD extra labor time for windows and doors. Didn't you?
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars.
Actually, I was 18 at the time (I'm much older and experienced now... 20) and actually let him talk me down $300 dollars from my original price... We did an awesome job too. I've learned to stick up for myself now.-------------------------------
People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.Jacob
I'll take $300 off if you let me cover the windows with siding.
Client, "You'd only spent x hours and you charged me $y, nobody makes that kind of money in such a short time."
You, "I charge so much because I'm good. Why would you want to pay $y for a guy who messes around for 2x hours to do the same job?"
Does your $2.00/ft cover the papering of the house too? How much do you charge for trim around windows and corners?
That is the whole deal. Unless the house is really complicated, eg, round windows, etc...-------------------------------
People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.Jacob
Want to come to Utah to side my house? (or make some money....) The rate around here is 3-5$ psf.
we had our house retro'd with hardie. Imo, smooth (vs. grain) is the only way to go. Look for someone either experienced with it or who is willing to learn how to hardie. It will pay huge dividends. A wavy substrate might be bad candidate, for reasons mentioned in other posts. Good luck.
We have also looked into James Hardie siding and was wondering how real the hardie shingles looked, and how difficult it would be to install for a DIY who has never done any siding before?
Fiber cement siding is one of the best products I've come across in my carpentry career. I love it.
Can you fudge coarses? Yes.
Can a first timer install it? Yes. If you could install wood siding, you could just as well install fiber cement. Just study up on techniques and get the proper cutting/nailing tools for it. There's more than plenty of information available here at Breaktime and other sites on the web. You can hardly pick up a building magazine without seeing an article about installing fiber cement.
As I'm sure most people know, "Hardi" is a brand name. There are a few other companies that make it also. The biggest difference I've found between manufacturers is in the shingle type siding. Hardi (I'm pretty sure it's them) shingles come in 48" pieces. Other brands come as individual shingles. I'm sure there are other differences, too, but that's the biggest I've come across.
The shingles look 'real' (I imagine real is cedar, right?) from a distance, and they are not ugly close up.-------------------------------
People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.Jacob
The shingles look as real as anything not real can look. They do look a little to perfect so that a fair number of people can tell they are not. But they look a whole lot better than vinyl.
It can be a DIY job, though a big one. If all the other jobs you've done came out well the first time then you probably have the ability to do this. It's not easier than, say, trim carpentry, roofing, tiling, painting.
Here's some photos of my old house with Hardie shingles.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=35025.3
Thanks for your take on the Hardie shingles. The pictures you posted gave me a much better idea of what the product looks like in reality. The James Hardie website have foggy looking pictures that make it difficult to make an informed decision. We are also building a craftsman style house in Alberta Canada, and think that the Hardie Shingle may be the product of choice here as long as we can do a decent job installing. Some siding products have a grooved profile making for easier application of the second couse. Do you know if this is the case with the hardie shingles? It might be wishful thinking on my part. Any tips on making the job easier? Thanks again.
The Hardie shingles are uniform 5/16" (8mm) thickness with one "good" side. When I bought them in 2000 they came bundled loose. Now they also make a panelized version that has several shingles on one sheet which speeds up installation.
For the first course you install a strip about equal to the thickness of the material to kick out the bottom so it matches the rest of the courses. You can use strips cut from shingles (but cutting the material is a lot of work), or rip pressure treated stock to 5/16" thick.
I don't have any tips since mine were installed by a contractor, but lots has been written here and would be available in the forum archives. The Hardie site has good technical installation instructions.
I can emphasize the importance of priming and painting per the manufacturer's instructions, that is with 100% acrylic materials and never with oil based. Oil based primers and paints will not hold up well due to their incompatibility with cementitious alkalis.
My husband and I did much of our house in Hardie shingleside. We used the 48" straight edge panels. They were fairly easy to install. We made a simple wood gauge that made it easy to hold the panel in position for nailing and to space rows. We also used a story pole and snapped some lines to be sure we were level. We stained ours prior to installation and that proved to be the most time consuming part.
The shingles look good and most people think they are wood until they touch or really look at them.
As others mentioned, the dust is bad so buying shears is a good idea.
I posted some pictures of ours to this thread:http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?msg=48862.1
Thanks so much for your experience with the hardie shingles. Would you mind describing the type of wood gauge that you made for holding the panels in place. I have seen some kind of metal clips that you can buy for holding siding, but if we could make something up that would be great.
Joe,
I'll get a picture of it for you tomorrow.
kestrel
Here are the pictures. The gauge is just a small piece of plywood, notched for the amount of exposure wanted. The notch slips under the previous row of shingles and supports the shingle being nailed. We found it considerably easier then trying to align the shingle to a line. Unlike the bracket that is sold for installing lap siding, this has to be held in place, so you do need a second person.
One thing to watch for in the Hardie shingle panels is that there may be variation in panel height between pallets.
Kestrel,
Thank you for the pictures of your wood gauge (easy enough). Using this gauge did you just make sure that you chalkmarked the first course or did you still do every course?
Thanks, Jody
We didn't have a problem keeping the courses level. We did snap lines for the first courses, which is a filler strip, one layer of lap siding and then the first course of singleside. Also in areas such as over our entry, a line helped get the first course level. For the rest, including crossing sliding glass doors and windows, just the gauge was enough. Of course we kept checking with a tape measure and level, just to be sure they were going on level. It really was fairly easy to install.
kestrel
Kestrel,
Sorry to pull up an old thread, but we are about to do our house with the shingles, and I'm thinking it would be good to have some individual shingles on hand to fill in small gaps instead of cutting 4' panels. Your thoughts?
Advocate
Hi Advocate,
No problem about the old thread.
We were able to use quite a few small individual pieces as you mentioned, but we used the parts cut out for windows and drops from the ends of courses. Toward the end we used up some of the drops by cutting out the individual shingles and matching the pattern set up in the panels. There was surprisingly very little waste.
I wouldn't suggest buying additional individual shingles for several reasons. First you will be creating some of you own in waste pieces. I haven't seen the individual shingles, so I don't know if they are identical to the panelized shingles. Also the panels have to be purchased in 2 square pallet loads, so I'd think the individual shingles also require a fairly large purchase. Of course if you have a source for a few individual shingles, you might find them useful.
kestrel
THanks.
How about corners? Can you get away with no corner boards?
Hopefully kestrel will give a more experienced answer, but when my contractor sided my house with the individual Hardie shingles there was no corner board on the outside corners, they were alternating overlapped like cedar would be, and the inside corners used corner boards 1½ inches square ripped from Trex.
The porch with plants photo in this posting shows an outside corner. http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=35025.3
We used corner boards, thinking that if there ever is an accidental bump by something, the board will be stronger than fiber cement shingles. We used Louisiana-Pacific SmartStart.
kestrel
I suggest corner boards as well.
Although strong on a flat wall, the fiber cement siding can be brittle on the exposed corners/edges if you use it in place of corner boards.
Are the Hardie Shingles random width, or all equal width?
They are in panels, and I believe they are all the same length, maybe 12', like the clap siding they sell. Each panel looks like a 12' run of shingles.
But maybe I am wrong and they are in singles. But if they are, they probably have three or four widths, so you can mix them in runs to get a "random" layup look.
Hardie makes these in molds, so they certainly aren't "random," but all same sized.
Try going to the James Hardie website and doing some downloads. They should have specifications, installation instructions, and more.
Individual shingles come in 6, 8, and 12 inch widths. You buy an assortment and randomize them when they are installed. You work cutoffs in to help in randomize the look further. When working from the bottom up, until you've reached a window or door from which you'll have cut offs it helps to take a few of the larger pieces and rip them to odd widths so you can mix them in.
They also come in 48 inch long straight edged panels (that look like individual shingles), staggered edge panels, and half round panels. http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/prodhome/hardishingle.php
When the contractor did my house it was his first time using Hardie shingles. I gave him the literature with the proportion of each size and he began in the least visible location on the back of the garage. He worked out a system with so-many of this width to so-many of that width and installed them. When I looked at the wall at the end of the day I didn't like it because he followed a pattern and it showed. I asked him to mix them up on the rest of the house, which he did, and it looked much better. The first wall had no openings so the pattern was especially obvious, but on the rest of the house the openings naturally required cuts and adjustments which made it easier for him to intentionally avoid following a pattern. It does somewhat depend on the skill and willingness of the installer to do an attractive job. (Like all work does, I suppose.)
great stuff
jameshardie.com web site is great
face nail is not good in my opinion- only thing it does is raise the hurricane rating by 25 mph like from 125 to 150 or some other bizarre number
face nailing makes it wavy if subsurface is not flat - so do not face nail it really pulls it down.
its a very good product. ive replaced a lot of wood hardi products.
as for how to order and other specifics James Hardi has website. dont know the addy of hand but its easy to find and very informative.
i use the shears for maost applications.
tyke
Just another day in paradise
doesn't the shears leave you with a slightly beveled edge when you butt the pieces together. We order it prepainted so when we are finished it's done. For cutting I use the small makita trim saw w/carbide blade, leaves a nice edge doesn't wander, ripping I use the 7 1/4 hardi blade. small blade lasts for 2 lifts. <!----><!---->
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Recommend me the nail for the blind nail application. I got 1-1/4 galv roofers (per Hardie instructions) for a coil gun, but can take them back if necessary.
And for the face nails at the top course, recommend that nail. Please state whether hand drive or gun drive.
We use the siding nail and not the roofer, siding nail is ring shanked. final course on the top we face nail w/finish gun and touch with same color caulk. <!----><!---->
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you can get the nails either stainless (big bucks ) or galv. we have faced nailed the last w/stainless , the head is smaller than the galv. but the finish nail look a h#ll of a lot better. <!----><!---->
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I use the galv. roofing for the blinside but I like 1 3/4" nails these are hard to find so you may have to order them at a fastener store if you need face nails you can hand nail trim or sidind nais then caulk over.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
We've got 15 and 16 gage finish guns available. What size is best for facenailing those top course boards? 15 or 16?
Do the heads embed a little, so all we need to do is dab the recesses with a tiny bit of colormatched caulk?
we use the 16 and sometimes even the 18 gauge to hold the last course. It does imbed alittle so you can put a dab of caulk on it. <!----><!---->
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No offense intended, but using finish nails to face nail F/C is a very questionable practice with no long-term benefit/holding power and, IMO, a waste of time, unless your objective is to get a job in your rear-view mirror.
From my own experience, the best way to attach F/C is with a dedicated siding gun with an adjustable flush-nail capability. The few times you have to face nail with a true siding nail becomes invisible after painting, and if you're using the prestained product, you can touch up the nail heads with a matching paint or stain.
I pass this on having hand nailed, used a framing nailer, and a roofing nailer (not good at all for face nailing), and finally springing for a siding nailer. (I have a Makita, but the Hitachi is good, too).
The siding nailers shoot a ringshanked nail with a small head, similar to a shingle nail.
the cut is farely square.as far as when you butt he siding, the only siding i cut( besides around windows/doors etc.) is the ends that butt the corner boards as the siding is 12' long and work out on studs in the field. i use the shears because of the dust and/or the vacuum attachments to the saws. you dont to be breathing the dust it is very harmful to your lungs. i had a set of pc shears for 2 years before the whole head assembly cracked i ordered another set about a week a go.
i really like the vented hardi soffit too but it is not good where i live because there are to many holes and we are very prone to hurricanes and with hurricane winds it blows the rain right up in the soffit and behind the siding. that also goes for blind nailing. i cant blind nail hardi siding here because it will cause it to flap and break off in hurricane force winds. i usually use a 2" ringshank plastic collated nail made for hardi siding. id rather use a wire collated nail but cant seem to find any in 2". i generally tend to stay away from prepainted because of having to face nail but im sure you can get the paint from the factory at a price.tyke
Just another day in paradise