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Discussion Forum

What do you guys think about wood fou…

| Posted in General Discussion on December 31, 2001 10:50am

*
how many of you guys have built homes with wood foundations?? did you like them and would you do it agian??
Im just worried that it might rot after 30 years after all the CCA leaches out.

thanks

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  1. splintergroupie_ | Dec 28, 2001 10:26pm | #1

    *
    Jon, check out < Obsolete Link > this thread.

    I wouldn't depend on the chemical solution, either. So...build 'em so they don't get wet!

    Although, from this website:

    i For example, during the 1997 floods in Fargo, North Dakota, PWF basements withstood inundation without structural damage, unlike some concrete block foundations. Plywood sheathing is well-known for its shear strength under wind and seismic loading.

    1. xJohn_Sprung | Dec 28, 2001 10:40pm | #2

      *The most important thing is how far north you are. Traditional wood houses in Norway and Sweden last hundreds of years because it gets cold enough that termites and dry rot can't survive there.-- J.S.

      1. Jason | Dec 28, 2001 11:43pm | #3

        *Ooh...touchy subject. Lots of them going in around here, and they've been using the system for years without problems. Where we set cabins in the UP, a lot of the foundations are wood, particularly the remote ones, whether full, crawl, or pier. I guess I'm not TOO nervous, I took classes in installing them, can get them real cheap (compared to poured). We'll see...we have to volunteer on a Habitat house in another month or so, installing a wood basement. We specifically signed up to see it done in action, so I guess I'll have a better opinion than. Finally, people that I've met that have them love 'em, and new builds seem to command the same prices with them.

        1. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 29, 2001 12:27am | #4

          *thanks, im in SE Michigan, near jason.Im also conserned what the exposed treated plywood will look like after a few years. Doesent it get a gray look from the sun?if its cheaper than poured or block then why doesent most builders use them. I do like the idea that the basement can be finished off easier, like with Superior Walls, but there cheaper.would a wood basement affect the value of your house?? like do some people think it will rot, so they think less of the house.

          1. Charles_Morrison | Dec 29, 2001 03:44am | #5

            *I have designed and built a number of homes and commercial buildings in Colorado using all weather wood foundations.This is a good question. Long exposure to water is not a good thing. Colorado where I was building is very dry even in snow. When it did rain it would rain all at once and be over. I now live in the Northwest and it is a totally different story.This system works best if your using a panel, cell, or unit type of construction which allows for building / fab in a dry building and then taking all of the foundation, floors, walls and roof units out at the same time. You dig one hole which includes all the utilities, make sure you have great drainage plus the use of a gravel bed.I always designed and built with a crawl space even if it was a full basement. You will get a much higher "R" factor from your walls and floors. Use the crawl space as a heat dump, the heat will rise back through the home and be reused, allowing for warmer floors, without having to keep higher temps.I have dry in 3500 sq plus in one day.It is best to use a true paint on / spray water proofing that is also good for UV. It also allows you to follow your finish grades around the structure with the siding materials you use. MAKE SURE TO CHECK THE BUILDING CODES FOR YOUR AREA.Another great thing is that you back fill only once which includes all utility runs. I would be nearly finished out and painted before I would back fill, then do all at once, back fill /compact ion / finished grading. Then when the weather is good you can have all your flat work done at the same time.

          2. splintergroupie_ | Dec 29, 2001 04:44am | #6

            *i I always designed and built with a crawl space even if it was a full basement.Charles, i don't understand this; can you explain? Are you saying you put a crawl space/plenum under the basement floor? i It is best to use a true paint on / spray water proofing that is also good for UV.Do you remember the brand you used? I thought the paint-on ones were only damp-proofers, and the spray-on type had to be done by licensed personnel, not good for DIY. And how did you protect it from punctures when backfilling? Thanks in advance.

          3. Randy_Reid | Dec 29, 2001 07:38am | #7

            *I'm surprised we've made it to 6 posts without someone ranting about the evils of living with chemicals. I built one 9 years ago and I was pleased with it, overall. Plusses include integrated drainage system required and often scrimped on in standard construction; fewer worries about cracks from minor settling; dramatically less weight means less potential for settling problems.Drawbacks include higher materials cost; working with heavy, wet, warped wood all day; special nails; truckloads full of gravel; slab before you backfill; people telling you you're nuts, etc.If I used it again I would only use it with 2'+ roof overhangs and super finished grading to ensure that the ground next to the wood, while moist, would likely not get soaked - just for my peace of mind.-Randy

          4. Charles_Morrison | Dec 29, 2001 06:17pm | #8

            *YES, I would design / build a crawl space under the basement floor. I do not like concrete floors. I will only install them if the client requires it, otherwise it is a crawl spaceIf we take just the PRO for a crawl space:It acts as a heat trap. It can be used as a charged air space (plenum), that way your not using duct work to move air, you are using all of the crawl space. This allows supplies to be placed most anywhere within the design(work with your HVAC/R sub-contractor on the design). If the design and property conditions allow, place your HVAC/R and water heater in the crawl space also. This way any wasted heat from the units is also used to heat the home.It allows for wiring or future movement years after the fact,If there is a future problem, it would allow access without totally remodeling a floor system.Be sure to add R13 to R19 (check your local codes) to the underside of the floor decking. Remember insulation does not stop heat, it just slows it down, the higher the "R" factor the slower it will pass through. So just like pouring water in a glass it seeks level. In your case it is just the other way. As the heat rises it seeks level but will continue to move through the floor framing and flooring materials above it. This in turn make the floor warmer over the total surface, then it continues to rise to the next point of resistance "R" factor. This system works best when you reclaim the heat at the highest point of the home and take it back to the crawl space to start it all over. This same system will also cool your home in the summer time, you would just exit the heat at the highest point and not duct it back to the crawl space. IMPORTANT no matter what type of system is used, you must have moving the air in the crawl space. This can be by simple vents to the exterior, or machancial, or convective, it will make a difference if you do place your HVAC/R in the crawl space, because code will require make up air anyway.It is best to have a much higher "R" factor at the walls, heat just like water will seek the point of least resistanceThere is a big difference between a water proofing and water resistant or damp proofing. The product I used a lot was by a company named something like CONNLIN, but it required a certified installer. My roofing sub-contractor was certified. I used the product on foundation wall, pool liners, roof system, and other places. Check with your local home improvement store and ask for a paint on and/or roll on water proofing that has UV protection in it.

          5. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 29, 2001 08:42pm | #9

            *thanks,To waterproof, couldent you just wrap the foundation in visqueen?? like maybee 8mill. Then cover the visqueen with dirt?I would think you could put siding down farther on a house with wood foundation, so less of the treated lumber would be exposed.

          6. splintergroupie_ | Dec 29, 2001 11:06pm | #10

            *Charles, thanks for the info--this is a detail i have never encountered when a full basement was already in the plans. Jon, the visqueen isn't tough enough for backfilling and it'll degrade in the soil and oxygen. Also, you want to keep the siding a good distance above grade to prevent rot, unless it's a cement or brick product. (There are code requirements, as well.) I'm not even sure about my HardiePanel, but it seems OK so far...

          7. Charles_Morrison | Dec 30, 2001 05:12pm | #11

            *Jon I totally agree with Renata AdlerBy using a paint on or roll on it allows you to run it up past your box sill, and on up as far as you want on the frame wall, it is going to be covered by the siding at this point and is acting as a counter flashing. YOU DO NOT WANT ANY WATER TO GET BETWEEN YOUR WATERPROOFING AND THE PT PLYWOOD OF THE FOUNDATION WALL.Think of it something like a swimming pool, your trying to keep the water out not in for this case.Two other things I for got to tell you, a wood foundation system is an engineered system. You will need a state licensed structural engineer or architect to run the calculations for you. Also to do the calculations you will need a soils report that provides the bearing value of your soil, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. If your installing a leach field then you will need part of this report anyway. Field borings will be required to determine the true bearing value, to do this they use what looks like a well digging rig, from the soil report it will tell you how well your soil can drain or receive water and how long it will hang around and what the true bearing value of your soil is. BUILD ON THE ROCK NOT SAND From this the engineer will determine if you will need a footer for your stem walls or not, and if so how wide it will need to be to bear the load of the structure above it.I have had cases where the soil bearing value was so bad that I had to over excavate the hole and have to bring in a soil mix that could be compacted in short lifts to make a rock to build on. The house is then built on a big rock and the rock is floating on poor bearing value soil. This way the big rock acts like a giant footer to the structure.As far as siding material, I said, that you will need to check your local code requirements for the clearance from grade to the siding. Out here the UBC calls for 6".In your design, anything that will deal with water in some form, DO NOT GET CHEAP ABOUT IT, do not cut corners, DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, or you will be doing it right the second time. At a much higher cost.

          8. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 30, 2001 07:53pm | #12

            *thank for all your help,would the roll-on waterproofing be somthing like UGL?? or is there a special kind for wood foundations??

          9. splintergroupie_ | Dec 30, 2001 08:24pm | #13

            *Jon, please, please check out the site for the plastic dimple fabric:http://www.deltams.com/deltams/index.htmlIt is easy, clean, relatively inexpensive, lightweight, DIY-friendly, doesn't stink, and best of all, it works!

          10. Mike_Willms | Dec 30, 2001 09:28pm | #14

            *Jon,I've built probably a dozen or so PWF's. In fact, my own house has one. I'd try to stick to one that's only 4' in the ground, backfill pressures are less and construction is simpler. Use a sheet barrier, as well as the roll on if you like. But definately use a sheet. Splinter's link looks good. Code in my area says I need to use a double layer of 6mil poly or better. Make SURE it isn't torn during backfill. Fill all nail holes in the ply with butyloid, caulk all plywood joints as well. Wrap the basement continuously with the wrap, overlap at the end by 3 or 4 feet, running 2 vertical beads of butyl at the junction. A concrete footing is far easier to work with, only use a wood one if you have someone experienced helping you. Hire an engineer. Parging (stucco) can be applied to the 6-8" below the siding. Be SMART about backfill. Wood basements are warmer and drier than concrete or block. Warmer because you're walls will either be 2x6(r20) or 2x8 (r35). Drier because wood doesn't sweat like concrete. If you live in a wet area, backfill with rock to keep excessive water away from the walls. The wood isn't supposed to get wet. Good backfill and the wrap ensure this, the caulked nail holes and ply joints are a last resort but should never see water. The wrap and dry conditions prevent the CCA from leaching, and a VB on the inside keeps the woods chemicals from entering the living space. The wall being sealed air tight on both sides does present a problem with moisture being able to leave the wall cavity. This is another reason I like to build PWF's that are only 4' in the ground. The bottom 4' may be sealed on the outside, but the upper 4' are covered in building paper, allowing some moisture to pass outward (in theory).After reading all this, you still have to decide if a PWF is right for your area. Exteremely wet conditions are much more difficult and require more attention to detail. In the end, I have a fully functional basement that does not feel like a basement. Larger windows (32" tall), warm in the winter, cool in the summer, and dry.

          11. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 30, 2001 10:18pm | #15

            *thanks mikeIt sounds like i should get someone who specializes in wood basemsnts to do it. At first i thought it was just like building the walls in your house, except there PT, guess im wrong. Seems more complicated than building above grade walls.our building site would not be very wet. the soil arould here is sandy

          12. FredB | Dec 31, 2001 03:01am | #16

            *Oh one other thing you need to check in addition to making sure your soils and gradiation will allow a wood foundation. Check with your local real estate people. In some areas of the country there is quite a bias against wood foundations. Has nothing to do with engineering, has to do with reputation. If you live in one of those areas you'll take a big hit when you sell the house. And, sooner or later you will, like all of us, sell the house.

          13. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 31, 2001 04:18am | #17

            *Fred,I thought of that and will try to find out that info. I think people that think less of them, do not know anything about them. They dont understand the engineering so they think it will "rot away"also how much less or more is it compaired to a poured wall??thanks

          14. FredB | Dec 31, 2001 10:48pm | #18

            *I think wood foundations got a bad rep because many have been installed in wet ground, or haven't used the right materials and have literally fallen apart when the nails rusted, or haven't been protected from excess water properly and have rotted away. Many folks just don't know much about them so rather than take a chance about something they don't know about they just avoid the things all together.As for poured vs cmu I haven't ever heard of any effect one way or the other on sale ability or price.

  2. jon_ledebuhr | Dec 31, 2001 10:50pm | #19

    *
    how many of you guys have built homes with wood foundations?? did you like them and would you do it agian??
    Im just worried that it might rot after 30 years after all the CCA leaches out.

    thanks

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