FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

What do you use to mark dark, wet wood?

TomMoen | Posted in Construction Techniques on December 23, 2005 11:26am

I’ve got a lot of deck stairs to build out of pressure treated hem-fir. (Hem-fir?) Those of you on the west coast know what I’m talking about. When wet, I simply can’t see my pencil marks well enough to cut accurate jacks. How do you overcome this? I’ve searched for white or yellow leaded carpenter pencils with no luck. I have tried a red lead carpenter pencil with unsatisfactory results. What say you?

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. User avater
    dieselpig | Dec 23, 2005 11:37pm | #1

    Tom,

    I have just the thing for you.  But sadly, I'm on the East Coast so I'm not qualified to answer the post.  Oh well.

    Just kidding.  Believe it or not, our treated lumber is wet too.  I can relate.  Sometimes the silver Sharpies will work.  Other times the best thing to do is use a knife or an awl to mark your cut lines.  If you find something foolproof, be sure and share.  I'm sure it's a common problem for all of us.

  2. Jen | Dec 24, 2005 12:47am | #2

    how about chalk? or for a finer line than chalk, a white colored pencil?

    1. TomMoen | Dec 24, 2005 04:24am | #10

      I have not tried the white colored pencil, but I want to. I think It'll be brittle, but perhaps I can be gentle enough. I wish someone made carpenter pencils with white lead. I need a fine line, not a lumber crayon. Hey, maybe I can sharpen a yellow lumber crayon to a chisel tip. That's the ticket. It'll probably crumble, but I'll try it. Hey Dieselpig, don't you eastern boys use pressure treated SYP? That's light colored I thought. I'll look at the silver sharpies.

      1. User avater
        dieselpig | Dec 24, 2005 04:29am | #11

        Yes, we use SYP PT, but it almost always comes soaking wet and black like the hem-fir.  (Very dark green actually) I have the same problem marking stringers.  Sometimes the silver Sharpies will take, sometimes they don't. 

        I've tried getting a decent line out of lumber crayons (aren't they called a kreel or a keel or something?  I forget)  but like you said, if you can get it sharp enough it's probably gonna break pretty quick.

        Don't give up on using a marking knife, a scratch awl, or even a small nailset.  9 times out of 10 that's what I end up using rather than fighting an uphill battle with a topical marking.  It makes for a pretty good cut line most of the time.

        1. User avater
          Sphere | Dec 24, 2005 04:47am | #13

          Yer nutzo..use a goose quill and imported india ink..geeze..framers!

          Have a cool yule..love ya  

          1. User avater
            dieselpig | Dec 24, 2005 04:55am | #14

            Right backatcha brother. 

  3. Jamie_Buxton | Dec 24, 2005 01:35am | #3

    Lumber crayons.   They write on dry wood or wet wood, and can be bought in light colors.   For example

    http://www.dixonticonderoga.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.product&prdIndex=176&CFID=1372149&CFTOKEN=67110834

    1. User avater
      dieselpig | Dec 24, 2005 01:39am | #4

      Kinda of inaccurate for a stair stringer, don't ya think?  Whatcha cutting yer stringers with a Stihl? 

      1. DougU | Dec 24, 2005 03:04am | #6

        Whatcha cutting yer stringers with a Stihl? 

        We mock what we do not understand!

        Doug

        1. User avater
          dieselpig | Dec 24, 2005 03:24am | #8

          Wouldn't be the first time..... enlighten me sensai. 

          1. DougU | Dec 24, 2005 05:47am | #15

            I have no idea, that's a line from Spy's like Us.

            Dan Akroyd and Chevy Chase are about to operate on someone and they haven't a clue what the're doing, some one questions there technique and that's what Dan says to them!

            Doug

          2. User avater
            dieselpig | Dec 24, 2005 05:51am | #16

            That one went right over my head Doug.   My bad.  Rough week and all.

  4. User avater
    zak | Dec 24, 2005 01:40am | #5

    yellow lumber crayons. most good hardware or fastener stores seem to have them. they're always breaking though.
    Actually my preference would be a scribe or an awl to scratch a nice line, if it was important to be exact (like stairbuilding would be).
    zak

  5. PeteVa | Dec 24, 2005 03:23am | #7

    Here in the country deck screws make good scribes, fit right up against a framing square. One less thing to forget to pack up when you're done.

  6. davidmeiland | Dec 24, 2005 03:28am | #9

    Dry the surface of the wood with a rag and then a heat gun. Then use a carpenter's pencil to do your layout. Doing layout right on a soaking piece of black PT is not gonna work very well.

  7. User avater
    Sphere | Dec 24, 2005 04:33am | #12

    Put away anything else that makes a line less than .002 , use the utilty knife god gave you, multi-task or die.

     

  8. 4Lorn1 | Dec 24, 2005 06:28am | #17

    You might try these:
    http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32540&cat=1,42936

    I'm thinking the red one might work. They say they write on damp wood. They, according to a friend, are not kidding when they say they are indelible so you might need to make sure you only mark the drops.

    White china markers, grease pencil, or silver sharpie might work but I suspect if the wood is more than slightly damp they aren't going to make a mark consistently.

    1. TomMoen | Dec 24, 2005 07:40am | #19

      Well lookee there, a red one. I have a black one, but not red. Good find.

      1. JBanyan | Dec 27, 2005 08:09am | #35

        welders/steel cutters use a soapstone for marking on dark steels etc

         it makes a white line and you can buy it at any welder supply store

  9. User avater
    jazzdogg | Dec 24, 2005 06:40am | #18

    Spent a pleasant weekend working with a crew of Japanese timber framers (talk about precise and meticulous!) and they used two tools to assure accurate joinery: A snapped a silk ink line (like a chalk line) that left a line that was easy to see and follow, and a bamboo ink pen that left a line like a Sharpie fine point - accurate enough for tight mortise & tenon joints, scarf joints, etc.

    These tools are available from http://www.hidatool.com

    http://www.japanwoodworker.com

    http://www.japanesetools.com

     

     

    -Jazzdogg-

    "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

    1. TomMoen | Dec 24, 2005 07:48am | #20

      Do you mean the ink pens with the felt chisel tip? I can just see the ribbing I'd get for using it; marking a couple lines....dipping in the ink bottle! Oh yeah. In reality, I think its too slow and fragile. I need to be able to throw it in my bags.Any kind of snapped line will not work. You lay stairs out using a framing square. I'd get some REALLY funny looks if I tried to snap a line using the square, and I'm sure I'd be commited to the nuthouse if someone caught me trying to snap the outline of the pattern jack onto the next 2x12.

  10. notascrename | Dec 24, 2005 09:10am | #21

    seems to me on BT that too often guys  spend hours trying to answer the wrong question. seems to me wet frozen lumber is a nationwide problem this time of year,duh, its winter. I get my press. trtd. lumber from a yard that keeps it all under cover. unbundled,dried and re stacked. yeah I pay more for it, wear the same set of gloves all day too.[ actually I havn't driven a nail on a job in years]. if everybody told the lumberyard the straight-up truth, things might improve, Ive noticed that one person can make a difference. I might be spoiled,I can go the lumberyard and tell them just exactly how the hoo it's going to be and thats how it is. [ sometimes we wrangle about it a little].I dont build tract house, don't build condos, don't build Mc Mansions. couldn't make a living framing dog houses, but my bill at the lumberyard runs 30 to 80k every month. I'm still the same moron stumbling along behind the wheelbarrow full of concrete that I was 40 years ago,go figure---

  11. User avater
    MarkH | Dec 24, 2005 03:29pm | #22

    Try a stabilo white pencil from an office supply or art store. The grease pencils may work, but are probably too soft.

  12. junkhound | Dec 24, 2005 04:24pm | #23

    Deck screw and utility knife have been mentioned, how about a plain old NAIL?

    Used nails on all kinds of lumber since a kid., always have one, never get dull, cheap, as accurate as a carp pencil.  If you are building furniture quality accuracy cuts for yur decks, then go with the utility knife fer sure.  

    1. TomMoen | Dec 24, 2005 09:34pm | #24

      Thanks for all the suggestions.A knife or nail or screw will not work. Can't see it.I'll report back next week to let ya'll know what worked.

      1. junkhound | Dec 25, 2005 11:55am | #28

        screw will not work. Can't see it.

        Try bifocals, or reading glasses??

        1. User avater
          JeffBuck | Dec 26, 2005 11:00am | #29

          I'm thinking just push harder?

           

          push hard enough ... it'll cut thru ...

          Jeff    Buck Construction

           Artistry In Carpentry

               Pittsburgh Pa

  13. SBerruezo | Dec 25, 2005 06:55am | #25

    I've noticed that some pencils write better than others.  One of our local lumberyards has a couple kinds of pencils, one won't even sharpen; they just fragment.  I would try getting a few pencils from different suppliers, that might do it.  Maybe some colored pencils.

     

    Young, poor, and eager to learn

    1. Snort | Dec 25, 2005 07:42am | #26

      Call me old fashioned and blind, but try sticking a piece of masking tape where you wanna cut, make a mark on the tape, stand upside down on one leg, squint yer eyez, hold yer breath, and dang, hope for the best<G> Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open

  14. PhillGiles | Dec 25, 2005 08:26am | #27

    Bright yellow fibre tip pen from an artists' supply store. I bought the Faber-Castell last time because it was cheap; I'll probably buy the one from the company that makes the architectural drawing pens (Ortho... something) next time.

    .
    Phill Giles
    The Unionville Woodwright
    Unionville, Ontario
  15. mike4244 | Dec 26, 2005 06:02pm | #30

    Buy the pencils for children, the big round ones. The lead is softer and marks better than a #2 lead on wet lumber.These pencils are about the same length ,but the diameter is about 3/8".

    mike

    1. User avater
      Sphere | Dec 26, 2005 07:37pm | #31

      BUY Them?  I shake the little tykes waitin for the school bus every Tuesday...I hold em by the ankles, and get milk money at the same time.  Check the back packs too, some are getting smart and have a secret stash. 

      1. User avater
        dieselpig | Dec 26, 2005 07:46pm | #32

        I think I saw that on "Tips and Techniques" in last month FHB.  LOL.

    2. TomMoen | Dec 27, 2005 12:12am | #33

      Just to be clear: I can write on wet wood fine. I have special pencils for that (each yard has different leads that each have their individual strengths). Its the "dark" part that I'm having trouble with.Anyway, its time to get crackin. In few hours I'll find out what works best. Thanks fellas.

  16. User avater
    Soultrain | Dec 27, 2005 06:13am | #34

    I always use my pocket knife for marking.  It gives a better line than a pencil anyway.  The pencil line gets fatter each time you use it.

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Mortar for Old Masonry

Old masonry may look tough, but the wrong mortar can destroy it—here's how to choose the right mix for lasting repairs.

Featured Video

How to Install Cable Rail Around Wood-Post Corners

Use these tips to keep cables tight and straight for a professional-looking deck-railing job.

Related Stories

  • Guest Suite With a Garden House
  • Podcast Episode 688: Obstructed Ridge Vent, Buying Fixer-Uppers, and Flashing Ledgers
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Finding the Right Fixer-Upper
  • Keeping It Cottage-Sized

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2024
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data