After reading some of the articles on this new rule I think my efforts are going to be very restricted after April 22, 2010.
http://www.remodeling.hw.net/legislation/what-epas-lead-rule-means-to-remodelers.aspx
Other articles:
http://www.remodeling.hw.net/search.aspx?query=lead
What do those who do remodels intend to do? For us one-two person operations it will be interesting I believe.
Bob
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Replies
I plan to get certified and follow the rules. I doubt the certification process will be that problematic.
I try to be lead safe anyway, I do mostly remodels, almost entirely on houses built well before 1978. I pretty much assume the paint is lead. Frankly, having it codified will just reinforce my ability to contol the site.
What are your concerns? Certification fees? Mitigation headaches?
k
I see you are in the SF bay area. I think that the market is pretty much different here in minimally regulated hillbilly country. While I agree that lead is a real problem I am not sure most will comply thereby making it harder for those that do to compete.
Folks like me that do it on small scale might find it kind of onerous to keep up and be certified. My own situation is I just started drawing Social Security and do not intend to net over about 14k/yr. Hardly worth it for that level of work.
My business liability insurance agent's oldest daughter had a problem with lead ingestion, fortunately they found the problem and she recovered.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I guess I assume that because it can directly affect the homeowner's (and their familiy's) health, it's one of the rules they may be ok paying for, especially as it gets more publicized.
I contrast it with illegal workers, I don't hire illegals, and that definitely makes me less competitive b/c no one here cares about that, but following the rules for lead seems like a marketing opportunity. maybe I'm kidding myself.
k
any neighbor can enforce the law with a phone call...
and that neighbor will tell all the other neighbors and you will have a tsunami in short orderbelieve me... the enforcement agencies are set up ... the telephone hot lines all existthe epa regulations are on the bookspay attention to thisMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
bump
WSJ had an article this week that new EPA rules require used clothes,toys, etc for kids be checked for lead.
Goodwill and others may simply not resell ANYTHInG for kids, as the lead testing costs are way higher than the worth of the item. TBD
I think I'm gonna see about getting the ducks in a row, and being the one that is needed to maybe keep a co. in compliance. Turn it into a position that no one else wants to deal with or can't.
All about finding a need a filling it, get the training underway, get some miles under my boots, and whore myself out to the highest bidder.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
One concern I have not taken the time to inquire about with my agent, is how the insurance companies (our liability policies) are going to alter their coverage to place themselves in a comfortable position.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm sure the rates will rise. I saw where the first contractor got nailed and it wasn't cheap.
Hey, or else we have to work for fallow wimmin with no kids. I can handle that.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
calvin... my policies all have "lead exclusion " clauses and have for several yearswhich is another reason i take the lead laws pretty seriouslyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Educating the folks is pretty serious part of it all.Worst case I know of personally - a family here with three small kids. Both parents have Master's degrees and normally real smart and pro-active about stuff.I designed an addition for them on the old place they bought moving here.Then they started in to do all the work themselves. I stopped by one day to find thin layer of fine dust on EVERYTHING.
And a week earlier they had learned that youngest daughter had lead poisoning.
I told them there were simple things they could do to avoid that problem, but to get the kid out of that environment, and referred them to finding more info. I did NOT want to be directly involved tho, lest any liability fall back to me. I never had any hands on with that job. They were very smart, but didn't apply it soon enough.
daughter seems to have recovered now, but you never know...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Here in Okiehoma there is a detatachment from reality. My brother-in-law builds new and sometimes renovates. His last renovation had asbestos. He said he just hired a bunch of guys to bag it up and haul it off, no biggy. Sheesh what a moron.
This conversation came out at the T'day dinner. He also said he doesn't concern himself with lead issues. Says that was resolved years ago? Says he doesn't undrstand why they're bringing all this up now.
My concerns is while I don't do large remodels anymore, how must I apply this ruling? When I come out to install a cabinet or remove doors and trim for an updated change I'm thinking I have to tarp and visquine off each room. I may have to invest in a HEPA vac. for even this small bit.
I guess I have to notify about lead even with the smallest of demo. This can come off a bit scammy and easily dismissed by my compition.
One client who wants to hire me is majorly restoring a 1913 home. Her hired help is stripping all woodwork with heat and sanders, no tarps,or anything else. I mentioned the hazard and she says they'll sweep and vacum up as they go.
Many site the building before 1975 as a cut off piont. Maybe paint with lead was not produced after that but as I learned while doing bridge work, the supply of paint containing lead was stil out there and being used both residential and commercial.-Paul
When I worked for a local Nursery in '72 after high school, DDT and lead arsenic was banned. We still were using these chemicals because the ban was for continued manufacture and purchase. You were allowed to use up you stock but would not be able to buy more. We had only a small amount of either and it went quickly.
I remember all the paint an uncle had that was lead based years after the ban. He was an old painter that was cherishing his so called, "greatest paint ever."
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Not going to worry about it.
It will be like many other rules and laws, not enough enforcement agencies to make a difference.
Russell
That is short-sighted thinking. They don't need to have that much enforcement people - all they need do is throw the heavy book at those few they do catch, then the fear of good goes out into the rest
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm thinking they'll do a huge role out, scare the hell out of the general public enough, and let them just call 'em in.
Around here you gotta do a pretty proactive search to find out anything about it. Not a whole lot of answers once you start asking about logistics.
Huh. There it is.
>
April 22, 2008: Rule enacted.
December 22, 2008: Distribution of Renovate Right pamphlet to homeowners and facilities.
April 22, 2009: Certified Renovator training begins.
October 22, 2009: Contractors may apply to be Certified Firms.
April 22, 2010: Full implementation of the RRP.
>
They are going to roll this out 4 months before before the training begins. YMMV.
Think I'll sit back and wait to see how the line starts to form.
Yeah, for those of us who WANT to be pro-active, there isn't even training yet available.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm sure all you need to know will be passed on in your first or second non-compliance hearing.
Wanna bet that enforcement rules and subsequent penalties are posted before compliance info?
RI is probably way ahead of other states because of the huge lawsuit the attorney general won agaist the major paint companiesbillions of dollarsrolled out the epa regs ahead of time all the major orgainzations and the captive insurance company... Beacon Mutual..
had training... different levels of lead trainingthe the RI Supreme Court overturned teh decision and all the moeny went awayso now it's back to the regulations and the homeowners, landlords, and contractors....so we're a couple years ahead .... but... worry not.... lead abatement is serious stuff and it will be a major part of your life in all remodeling of houses before 1975Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
<lead abatement is serious stuff and it will be a major part of your life in all remodeling of houses before 1975>You're not much of a prophet Mike, you are 33 years late with this warning. ;)besides I believe the magic year was 1978. Of course my dad and every other painter in town were stockpiling oil primer to last well beyond 78.
Barry E-Remodeler
ooh... you're right.... 1978
well... there are two things everyone absolutely has to do
1} download & print the EPA booklet " Protect Your family from Lead in Your Home "
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/leadprot.htm
and
2) print out the "Confirmation of Receipt of Lead Phamplet"
if you are a landlord, or a remodeler and you are involved with pre-1978 homes
you have to give the tennant or your customer this phamplet
and you have to get a written confirmation that they received the phamplet
the phamplet tells them everything THEY have to do... and everything YOU have to do
if you can't prove that they got the phamplet, you are already screwedMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike and the rest....
Well, I gotta tell you, if Mike Smith hadn't posted the link and all, I wouldn't have had a clue about any of this (thanks Mike). The State of Florida and local EPA has not posted anything nor mentioned any of the requirements. Typical for our area. The state has over 100,000 (yes one hundred thousand) licensed contractors yet doesn't do very well to keep them informed of anything.
So I guess the best bet until any kind of certifcation can be achieved is just don't work on any pre 1978 homes. Which here is easy to do as if you start fooling with them, you have to meet all the windhurricane mitigation rules as well. A $10k renovation can become a $20k project just by following the rules.
And that extra $10k doesn't go in my pocket...it just pays the engineers and building department.
Edited 12/16/2008 2:59 pm ET by Oak River Mike
That's exactly the type of thing I was feeling in my earlier post. Only lawyers can go backwards and get away with it. At one point lead was OK just like brakes with asbestos. This kind of justice infuriates me. Like GE having to disturb the PCB'S in the Hudson River mud north of Manhattan, that's not gonna work as they will just disturb what mother nature has taken care of and for God's sake they had a permit from New York State.
RI sucessfully sued the major paint companies.... in discovery, it was determined that they knew about all of the problems
but did nothing
besides paint....we also have huge amounts of lead in the enviornment from leaded gasoline...which was deposited from the air into our reservoirs and farms
there is an awful lot of background lead... it's real.. it tends to concentrate in old , low income housing
but as a contractor, you just have to watch your back
U.S. EPA is issuing new lead paint abatement rules for contractors who renovate or repair housing, child-care facilities or schools built before 1978. Under the new rules, workers must follow lead-safe work practice standards to reduce potential exposure to dangerous levels of lead during renovation and repair activities. The “Lead: Renovation, Repair and Painting Program†rule, which will take effect in April 2010, prohibits work practices creating lead hazards. Requirements under the rule include implementing lead-safe work practices and certification and training for paid contractors and maintenance professionals working in pre-1978 housing, child-care facilities and schools. The rule covers all rental housing and non-rental homes where children under six and pregnant mothers reside. The new requirements apply to renovation, repair or painting activities where more than six square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed in a room or where 20 square feet of lead-based paint is disturbed on the exterior. The affected contractors include builders, painters, plumbers and electricians. Trained contractors must post warning signs, restrict occupants from work areas, contain work areas to prevent dust and debris from spreading, conduct a thorough cleanup, and verify that cleanup was effective. For more information on the potential dangers associated with exposure to lead follow this link: http://www.epa.gov/lead/ Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
After my rant, I read alot of the additional posts, I'm sure you and others are right, and I'm just angry and wrong. Does make we wonder what we are doing today that will come back to bite us in the #### some years from now.......trust me there is something.
Didn't that case get reversed on appeal? A friend of mine represented one of the defendants, but he won at the trial level.
well... a minor problem....
YES !
.... the RI SUPREMES reversed the case
and all of the money the state was going to use for mitigation went out the window
easy come... easy goMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
there is an awful lot of background lead... it's real.. it tends to concentrate in old , low income housing
And how. About 20-25% of the entire city of Omaha is a Superfund site for lead - back in the day, Asarco had a big lead refinery down by the river. EPA has been replacing the soil in thousands of folks' yards for some time now. It's a huge project.
Jason
At one point lead was OK just like brakes with asbestos. This kind of justice infuriates me.
I agree. It infuriates me too, especially since it was known that it wasn't ok long before it was banned (when did European countries ban lead paint?).
The lesson from that is to ask serious questions about things that are deemed "ok" now, not to question the hindsight about the dangerous things they said were ok but now we know aren't.
We shouldn't have been breathing lead dust all these years, and we should do whatever we can to make sure no one else does now.
k
Edited 1/16/2009 1:48 am ET by KFC
I'm sure you are right. As a (basically) one man show it makes things alot tougher. I'm at the point in life where I REALLY don't like change.
It's all good. We're all resistant to change. I myself am pretty cavalier about my own health and safety too often.
k
A little bird told me that the (EPA) group that wrote the rule dropped the ball on notifying those impacted until way late in the game. As of a few months ago, they were scrambling to get the word to trade groups that the law was coming. I know cause I used to work there...
I wonder who is going to enforce or govern any of it. Ever state or local agency in Florida is running a skeleton crew due to the budget and economy. Who is going to police it?
This may be the new WPA.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Who is going to police it?
Plaintiiff's lawyers.
Every car, truck and tractor in America should run on natural gas- it's the future.
Fritzed, fried googling hypochondriac yuppies like the couple I worked for.
After I hand washed, scraped and painted their house while using drops and after vacuming the soil when I removed those drops they came back after I finished painting and removed 6" of soil all around their home 3' out.
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Instead of being offended by that, why didn't you offer to do it for them, for a profit?
k
Wasn't offended by any means just amazed at the lengths they felt they had to go.
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Fritzed, fried googling hypochondriac yuppies
not even a little offended?
k
There are soooo many cases of overkill, and more money than brains. Although the $$$ is drying up somewhat. Abatement is REAL sticker shock. By the way how many homes have you been in where the kids are chewing on the window sills and door caseings? Give me a break, if that's the case @#$% em.
peli...if you think it's all about kids chewing on windowsills, you need some lead trainingit's a big eye openerMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Could be, but I'm a real cynical kinda guy. Not cheap or even thrifty, but I don't pee my or my clients money away. I even saw Norm on one of the TOH shows cringe at the lengths taken and the cost involved in lead abatement of paint. Somebody takes a two day course, puts some monkeys in Tyvek suits and turns them loose. ,Finish up and laughs on the way to the bank. Just how I feel. If I KNEW it was good from removal to disposal at a fair price maybe I'd feel better. When people see the proposed bill for bagging their home for a complete sand/grind off of the exterior surface watch out.
You do need to read up more. It's not the old cliche' as you say, chewing on sills. Lead is a real issue but not the need for worry I presented with my yuppies or yugim's as I like to call them.
YUGIM= young urban googling idiot morons
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/regulation.htm
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Edited 1/15/2009 9:25 am by jagwah
YUGIM= young urban googling idiot morons
Idiot and Moron are oxymoronic terms. ;)
I worked for a family who had their soil tested around the house (the husband happened to work for a soil quality board, mostly dealing with methyl bromide in the salinas valley. It was loaded with lead, even though everyone recently working on their house had followed safe practices.
I've also worked next door to a house that the city had paid to have a slab poured over the front and side as part of lead mitigation for a nearby school. they capped oh, i don't know, 900sf of soil?
k
ps- there was a really good article on lead safety in FHB a few years ago. it was written by a contractor, not a paranoid yuppie. he had his crew tested, his family tested, etc. It was eye opening. i'll try to pull it up.
I was trying to get a vowel in there for pronunciation.
You know for all the paint I've scraped in old homes when I was young helping my Dad over 40 years ago and since it's no wonder I have any brain at all. I did find an old x-ray of it I had taken years ago.
View Image
Just A Guy With A Hammer
You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
that is frickin hilarious.
k
city had paid to have a slab poured over the front and side as part of lead mitigation
hmmm.. is the gov. going to pave over Webb city and Joplin, Mo. How about Galena, IL?
Spent 6 months in Joplin (hope nobody here is from there?) at EP in the early 90's. DW said overall the folks there were the densest she had ever encountered. So, there must be something to the long term lead exposure syndrome.
Ol' Mr. Webb, he was 'plowin' his homestead and hittin' alla dese here heavy soft rocks. Guess what, he was gonna be rich, them wuz all solud led.
Most the batteries for our subs in WW2 came from EP in Joplin, nearly all the rail line rails have 1942 dates on them. First time I went there, there was a nice field across from the plant, how nice. Turns out that field was where all the scrap red lead got dumped, was a superfund site - nice field now, but they don't let kids play on it yet don't tink.
See my note to Mike.
we're all certified... and our painters are certified..
i have copies of the EPA lead book and the homeowner sign-off forms
and we've already been thru one site inspectio when one of the painters screwed up and a neighbor reported it
so... we intend to comply
What tickles me is the EPA statement that compliance should add $35 per job. Lets see how many jobs does one have to do to amortize shrouded removal tools and HEPA vac.
Two churches wanted me to get the grey paint off their parsonage concrete porches. That looks like a prime opportunity to poision a bunch of kids. Then again if they crawl around in the grass eating paint chips it may be what Darwin had in mind.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
all i know is " you don't spit into the wind, you don't tug on superman's cape and you don't mess around with osha and the epa"
i heard a couple years ago that lead was going to make asbestos look like a minor irritation... i think that is going to be proven correct
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sounds like time to do decks and finish out basements where nothing has been done before, or build furniture in my basement shop.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I still think you can look at it as a marketing opportunity, and a chance to justify tools and techniques that will keep you and yours (you hug your kids when you get home, wash your clothes in the same washer?) healthy.
from a competition standpoint, there is no local enforcement number i (or a neighbor) can call if a competitor is running a crew of illegals, but if someone is sanding without a shroud and vac, an inspector will come out.
the one and only time i ever dropped a dime on another crew was when some guys were using open flames and sanders to strip all the layers of paint off a house about a hundred feet from an elementary school. they shut them down.
k
It would be nice for your (my) company to say we were certified as that would be a nice plus for marketing as you said. I just wish there was more exposure about it. As it stands now, no one in my area has ever heard of it.
sounds like time for an ad, no?
"LEAD POISONING ALERT! WAS YOUR HOUSE BUILT BEFORE 1978? In order to avoid lead poisoning, the EPA now requires LEAD REMOVAL CERTIFICATION in order to perform any work which may disturb lead paint on properties built before 1978.
Oak River Mike and Co. are fully trained and compliant in lead paint detection and abatement. We use the latest tools and procedures to protect you.
We care about your family's health. Call us for an estimate @555-1212"
run that repeatedly, and you'll get the word out while getting your name out.
k
Damn, thats a cut and paste ad! Thanks.
Just have to get trained now...
Seriously, you could drum up some good business, at the same time generating awareness. I probably shouldn't have included abatement in there, i think that's a professional designation beyond remodeler certification.
I'd call your local EPA branch to find out how to get certified. you may not be able to be officially certified until april, but you can undergo the voluntary training which i'm guessing covers a lot of the same ground. http://www.epa.gov/lead has some info.
also, for sure download the homeowner's info pamphlet and give those out.
k
that's what happened to me... one of the painters started sanding the clapboards ..
instead of the misting and scraping and catchment that was set up as our method
a neighbor dropped a dime....
and the inspectors were on the site in an hour.......
it took about three weeks of high stress for things to quiet down.... my out-of-town homeowner must have fielded about 20 phone calls.....
we were lucky that we were all trained ( except for the one that changed the work method ).....that the inspector could observe that all the other painters had been following the correct procedures.....and we knew right away what had gone wrong, and how much doo-doo we were in, and that the sanding had only gone on for about a half hourMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
And, I'm not really recommending narcing on your competitors, but just noting that the officials will respond, as you described (one hour!).
Which may put some heat on the non-licensed licensed guys, to the rest of our benefit.
k
And, from FHB No. 200, p. 20:
"The New England Regional Office of the Environmental Protection Agency announced recently that it had fined a residential renovation and construction contractor almost $64,000 for violating a lead-paint disclosure law pertinent to renovations of residential properties...
M.F. Reynolds, which the agency says has been cooperative with EPA inspectors, will pay $63,832 in penalties...
For more information, visit http://www.epa.gov/lead"
k
So Mike, where do you get the training? Local or via the EPA site?
we belong to RIBA, ( a local club of NAHB )... and they have a safety group for W/Cthat safety group & RIBA are always sponsoring safety training... so all my guys are Lead remodeler trained & OSHA 10 trainedi would imgine that if you joined eiter your local NARI or NAHB they would have training..
or your state DoH or OSHA will probably have a program
belonging to the safety group also gets us substantial discounts in or W/C premiumsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Very interesting (and disturbing) info, Mike. I have to look into what the rules are here in Canada, specifically, province by province. All this sh*t is coming home to roost and it's getting more expensive by the minute. How come we're so much smarter now? I remember working for a construction company in the late 70s installing sewer and water mains for large projects - subdivisions and the like. We cut and beveled hundreds of pieces of transite pipe (asbestos) with gas cut-off saws. I remember standing in clouds of that white dust. Somehow I don't think that's allowed any longer. Thank goodness. Cough, cough. Just a tickle, the doc said. Yeah, right.So how do you estimate renos when lead is present? Your price must be way higher than Joe's Renos (who doesn't have a clue about this), right? Thanks for posting to this topic, Mike. I really appreciate reading about it. Cheers,
KenYou live and learn. At any rate, you live.
>>At any rate, you live.<<For a little while anyway...cough, cough.I was taking some vermiculite insulation out of a wall a few years back, getting covered in the stuff. The very next day the news hit that about 99% of all the vermiculite used for insulation in this country was full of asbestos.I have a permanent little cough, though I can't attribute it to just that incident.Steve
I have a permanent little cough, though I can't attribute it to just that incident.==============Sorry to hear that, mmoogie. If it ever went to court and the lawyer asked if you'd ever been exposed to second-hand smoke or breathed city air, for example, then he'd argue that their is no definitive way to correlate your cough specifically to the vermiculite. Case over. But you know in your heart (and lungs)that the greater likelihood was your exposure to vermiculite (and wood dust, and drywall dust, and....)Cheers,
Ken==========================================
You live and learn. At any rate, you live.
as to estimating.... it helps if the painter sub ( who will be doing most of the work ) has been thru training and knows what they are going to be getting into... and all the requirementsnotify all households within 50 feetmethod of work ( misting, scrape, catch all )so long as everyone takes it seriously, then you can estimate it correctlyif someone gets a better price, and it doesn't sound like they have a good abatement plan.... i'd just warn the Owner and let them decideMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I lost an aunt and uncle to mesothelioma, she was a teacher, said guys with suits and masks were working on pipes, etc in school; but nothing to protect kids and teachers. Their kids should have jumped in on the class action. The lived in Pittsburgh area.
As I wind down and try to finish the house I helped dad build 50 yrs ago and enjoy my four granddaughters i will probably not pursue the lead bit. But I may look into it. It might be a hook to be the consultant and help my competitors for a fee. I am afraid the insurance for a venture like that would be prohibitive.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
good call- you could be the certified guy on site, ideally doing minimal labor.
best of luck whichever way you go.
k
p.s.- sorry about the relatives. some of this stuff hits home for a lot of folks.
Thanks. I think there is way too much leeway on lots of environmental stuff. Then again some of it seems a little overkill sometimes. For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I am afraid the insurance for a venture like that would be prohibitive.
maybe 2 years ago I asked my insurance agent about "lead abatement" to be covered by my general liability policy. His off the cuff answer was that it would be about 5 times the rate I was paying now.
So another night I am at the local Homebuilders Association meeting and I am talking to a remodeler who says he is doing some lead abatement work, 'cause he took the one or two day course. I asked him about his insurance covering him for it and I got the deer in the headlights look. He kind-of said he has his regular liability coverage, but didn't think he needed anything more. When I told him about my conversastion with my agent, the remodeler got real quiet and nervous.
Bowz
that was my reaction when the lead inspector showed up......
i immediately realized there was a whole separate sheet in my insurance binder about exclusionsand prominent in the list is "lead exposure "which leads me to believe that as the dust settles ( no pun intended )...
insuarance companies are going to be required to rewrite their exclusion clause..
or how is anyone going to get legit contractors to work on their pre-78 homes ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
One reason I recall the conversation with the remodeler at the HBA, was because a few months before that i had been at a state remodelers council meeting, where the top enforcement guy from the state had been there to make a presentation.
He got into a strong discussion with a remodeler, (NAHB teacher and award winner). The basic conversation came down to the remodeler saying, "Some of these customers live like pigs, how are we supposed to protect everything from from dust when they haven't cleaned in years?"
To which the state guy responded, " I don't care. My job is to make sure children are not being poisoned by lead. These are what the rules are going to be. If you have other ideas I am open to hearing them. But this is what we will inforce."
It was one of those moments when I figured it was getting to be time to look at other options for making a living. just haven't found what else to do yet.
Bowz
Mike,
I'm all for keeping things on the up and up in this trade, but sometimes you have to wonder how well thought out some legislation is, or whether any industry pro's were included in the process.
Just another way of driving the industry underground, or under the table. Take your pick.
eric.... this is one thing you can't go "underground" with
take a scenario like this:
you do some remodeling for a young couple with 2 kids , 3 & 6....
you don't give them a copy of the EPA book....never mind wether or not you followed the rules for mitigation
the 6 year old gets tested in school for lead... next thing you know you have a letter from the young couple's lawyer
what cha gonna do now ?..... you are only at the beginning of a long journey into hellMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Oh, I agree 100% Mike
I'm just commenting.................how many guys on the edge of legitamacy, maybe wanting to get there, are gonna say the hell with it all and just go farther underground?
We know the industry is full of folks like that. Sometimes the more laws they shove down your thoat..........certainly doesn't make it easy for the guys just barely making it.
And you have to wonder; what took them so long to get here and why is it such a great priority now? Maybe look into who has been lobbying the lawmakers on this one.
I'm not at all against safe construction practices. Not advocating skirting the law at all. Getting certified is on my to do list.
We know the industry is full of folks like that. Sometimes the more laws they shove down your thoat..........certainly doesn't make it easy for the guys just barely making it.
Maybe those guys just barely making it should either learn how to run a business properly or do something else. The negative opinion many people have of contractors (or lawyers for that matter) are largely because of people who get into a field thinking any fool can do it, don't get trained and perpetually screw up, making the rest of us look bad in the process.
While I can not disagree with you, what you suggest is a lot easier done in theory than in actual real life.
That said, be sure that you understand that I was/am NOT condoning the actions of those that are not legitimate.
Eric
While I can not disagree with you, what you suggest is a lot easier done in theory than in actual real life.
True enough. I am often asked (and tempted) to do something that may be beyond my level of expertise. Depending on how things are going, sometimes it is not easy to decline. However, I occasionally handle legal malpractice cases, so I get to see what happens when, for example, real estate lawyers decide to give bankruptcy advice. It isn't pretty. There are plenty of analagous situations in the building business.
That said, be sure that you understand that I was/am NOT condoning the actions of those that are not legitimate.
Of course.
occasionally handle legal malpractice cases
Wow, one of a very few!!
Glad I started this thread, reinforces my Grinch image DW accuses me of.
Lot of good but however disturbing dialog.
BobFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I am still amazed I have heard NOTHING in my area about this! I have been asking people at the local depts. and job sites and suppliers since I saw this thread a while back and no one has heard about it!
I have even printed out the borchure Mike Smith posted a link to and no one has seen that either! And I live in a large metro area!
Go figure.
Mike
The EPA's been busy shredding papers and deleting E-Mail.
They'll be doing their job soon.
k
All the jobs I'm working on now have been in progress since before 12/22/08. The rule says that the pamphlets must be distributed before work begins. Anyone know ho this affects jobs already in progress?Steve
Mike,Where do you get your copies of the new brochure? I've got a downloaded PDF, but it's a 20 page color document and ink ain't cheap. The old lead brochures used be available at the paint store and I've grabbed a few of them from time to time, but I've yet to see any of the new ones out in the wild.Steve
i printed out one good color copy .... took it to Staples and had them reproduce me 20 moreMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That's a good idea. Actually, I'll bet they could print directly from the PDF file.
bump