What fasteners best for ironwood deck?
redoak
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I just bought 1″ x 4″ 14′ Ulin (ironwood family) for my front porch. I’m wondering what sort of fasteners to use on it? Has anyone used any of the hidden deck fasteners, like TigerClaw? Are they easy to work with? Or should I stick with SS square drive screws? What about DeckMate?
Also, some of these boards are pretty bowed. Is there an easy way to get them into place? How much of a bow can I work with before I either return the board or cut it? Seems a shame to have to cut them.
Replies
You aren't going to be able to straighten the ironwood very much.
I have used stainless steel fasteners before for 5/4x6 iron wood decking. make sure you countersink it good for each screw, have plenty of countersink bits because they heat up fast and break once and a while. if you have a lot of area to cover, use a corder drill because you'll be using a lot of battery power to countersink and fasten with square head screws.
Thanks for the advice. Seems a shame to use screws on this wood, but I haven't been able to find anyone yet who knows much about hidden fasteners. I'm trying to locate some small head torque drive ss fasteners. The wood IS hard as hell. I think, now, I'll be able to straighten them into place, but you're right, they're hard as hell to work with. Mine is 3/4"; can't imagine working with 5/4"! I've got a corded drill but will need to buy some Fuller countersink bits.
If you want concealed fasteners I would look into Shadoe Track or one of the other systems that mounts to the joists and attaches upward to the decking. They are expensive and require some work from below, but you would have a beautiful deck.
The fasteners such as Eb-Ty and Tiger Claw that mount between the boards are questionable--some folks report success but others have had problems with the fasteners letting go, or restraining the expansion of the boards during the wet season, causing buckling. I would not risk either.
I screwed and plugged my deck, but it was 5/4, so it was easy to drill deep enough for a 3/8" plug and still leave enough for the screw to have bearing in the hole.
Whatever you do, expect some major wrestling with un-straight boards--stout fasteners are required.
David,Thanks for your input. The Shadoe Track sounds promising, but the deck I'm building is over a concrete porch and it will rest on a double layer of 2" x 4"s.As for the other fasteners you mentioned, I appreciate your feedback; I'm not inclined to go with them either if there's some risk of failure/problems later on.That leaves plugs, which given the 3/4" width, isn't plausible either.I'm thinking that a small head ss star torque screw is the best I'm going to be able to do.The worst of the 14' bowed 3/4" boards (which I plan on laying full length) are 1 3/4" off the ground at center (when you turn the board on it's edge). If worst comes to worst, I can possibly use a pipe clamp to get them into place. Hopefully, two screws every 16" will be enough to keep it all secured.Thanks again for the advice.
Edited 8/24/2006 10:22 am by redoak
On This Old House when they rebuild Tom's brother's house they built the deck out of ipe.They used a marine adhesive (3M - 5700 IIRC). They staked it in place with SS 15 guage finish nails to hold it until the the adhseive sets.But if you have badly bowed wood that probably won't work.
If the deck is that low, then I think you've got another problem. There will be very minimal ventilation underneath, which will leave the bottoms of the boards more damp than the tops and they'll probably cup. Sealing the boards may or may not help much. The best thing you can do is leave very large gaps.
David,I'm glad, now, that I decided to put another layer of sleepers down. 3" inches is better than 1 1/2" inches. Frankly, I didn't think of ventilation! As I posted above, the porch is almost completed protected from the rain. One end occasionally gets wet when we have a good storm. So, I'm hoping, with a 3/16" gap, all of it will get enough air.I had someone suggest that I put a layer of black paper (underlayment) on the top of the sleeper. Do you know anyone who routinely does that? I know that part of it is aesthetics; he said that when you lookdown through the gaps you don't see the framing underneath.Thanks for posting back.
We always put Vycor over deck joists, we buy the 6" material and cut it into 3" strips.
David,Great tip. I've got some left over from sealing the step flashing on my roof. I'll use it! Thanks.
I forgot to mention about hidden fasteners. I have done a few decks, using cambara wood, which is like mahogany. not as hard as iron wood, but we used deckmaster hidden fastening system. it will make the deck last a lot longer because no screw holes to allow water into the boards easily. we still had to drill out a pilot hole using a normal drill bit, and then run used the screws they provide with the system to fasten down the cambara wood.
also, don't forget to seal all the sides, even the edges, prior to installation. and then do a second coat if needed over the top when completed for a nice finished look. we always use just a rag that's dampened with the stain we used, to go over the whole deck when it's done. customers love that finished look with no dirt on it.
How about a Hliti PAT (Powder actuated tool)? ;-)
That's funny; my wife would just love the look of that one.
David gave you some good advice. For the hidden systems, I've use Eb ty and really liked the look and there have been no problems, Ipe is very stable so expansion and contraction isn't a problem. It is however, very very labor intensive so the look really comes at a price. Where you are using 1x4, I would not recommend any of the hidden systems unless you have a lot of time and patience. The idea from this old house of using marine adhesive and SS finish nails to hold it while the adhesive sets is something you could consider. I'm in MA so this old house is right in this area and always shows on the local stations. I know they have used that method with Ipe for 4 or 5 decks, going back 8 or 9 years. Also, he used that method on his brothers house who is also his building company partner. You only use enough SS finish nails to hold the boards down, not very many. I did it this way on 1x6 Ipe about 4 months ago on my sisters place and it came out very well and looks great. The SS finish nails are countersunk and are nearly invisible, about 500 used on a 16x24 deck.
To bend the boards, get yourself a bo wrench. It's a levering tool that attaches to the joist and bend the board back with little effort and it will hold the board in place while you nail it, screw it, whatever. I have a welder connection, so I have a SS homemade one and it works great. http://www.bowrench.com/
If your looking into screws, check out grk fasteners and headcote, both make SS screws that are available in different head sizes and also different colors. The dark brown ones blend very well with Ipe. Headcote also make a bit that countersinks to just the right depth so the screw is flush with the surface.
http://www.ironwoods.com/ResInstall.asp
This deck has the SS finish nails and marine adhesive.
I have an ipe deck, 5/4 x 6 decking screwed down. Right now it's summer, the gaps are bigger (around 3/16", the way I installed the decking). In the winter, when a lot of rain falls on the deck, the gaps will shrink down to 1/8" each.
David,
What type, size and length screws did you use? Looks like McFeeley's trim heads are #7, and they recommend 2-1/2" for 5/4 decking - feels to me like they'd want to snap. Also, what size pilot hole?
Thanks, Wayne
3/8" forstner bit for the plug holes, about 3/8" deep (drill this first).
5/32" bit for the thru hole, just into the top of the joist.
#10 x 3" SS deck screws, square drive, from Manasquan.
Two cordless drills, one impact driver. The best I could do was about 30 LF of decking installed per hour, two screws per joist 16" O.C, 1-2 butt joints per course. That doesn't include the plugging and sanding, but it does include a fair amount of time to cut ends and seal, and horse non-straight boards into place.
Thanks! Thought you might still be up & on-line - LOL!
I think you guys in the NW are the only place there is any real movement with Ipe, and it just the never ending rain.
My location gets a lot less rain than much of the NW, and we have long dry summers. I would say use deck fasteners that restrain ipe at your own risk. A builder here did a large ipe deck with the Eb-Ty system in the summer, and in the winter it buckled because the lumber got bigger but the gaps couldn't. Joe Wood, who does elaborate ipe decks in SoCal also face screws and does not use hidden fasteners. I suppose in a climate that had rain throughout the year the material might appear more stable, i.e. if it rains every week you're probably safe using them.
David,Given my location in the NW (North of Seattle in Lake Forest Park) are you saying that a hidden fastening system would be ill-advised and that face screwing would be best?Edited 8/22/2006 10:31 am by redoak
Edited 8/22/2006 10:31 am by redoak
You may have more wet weather than we do over here, but I would strongly caution against the fasteners that go between the boards. I just have never heard uniform approval of any one of those systems, when used with ipe. Cedar, fine, because the wood fibers can crush in contact with the fasteners if the boards expand. Anyway, I really do not want any chance, even a few percent, that my work will fail, so I always go with tried and true methods. Sometimes there are problems anyway!
I can't remember, is your decking 3/4"? If so you can still do plugs, you just need to drill for them very accurately.
David,I very much appreciate all of your posts. You also sound like someone with conscientiousness and integrity.Ah ha, plugs ARE a possibility? With a 3/4" board, what depth would the screw need to go for an adequate plug? Do you glue the plugs before pounding them in?
Getting ipe plugs turned out to be a major hassle for me. At first I ordered some from a vendor (Bristol Valley Hardwoods, they advertised the lowest price) but a significant number were undersized and didn't lock up in the holes. I made the rest myself using a plug cutter and a drill press, and scraps of decking. My plug cutter made them so they would just barely lock up, not ideal but they worked.
Anyway, I'm mentioning this because plugging 3/4" decking will depend on your ability to buy or make plugs that are about 1/4" to 5/16" long, and wide enough to lock up in a 3/8" hole. The typical Vermont American maple plugs that I can get at my lumberyard fit that description. If you can find them, then drill your 3/8" hole exactly 3/8" deep, drive the screws, and then glue the plugs in. You can get a depth stop that fits Forstner bits. I used Titebond II and it worked fine... started with Gorilla Glue but it made the plugs pop out as it expanded.
I would not commit to this course of action without having the plugs on hand and making a careful study of the hole depth, the meat left for the screw to bite into, etc. It can work fine in 3/4" if you don't overdrill the 3/8" hole, and the plug does not bottom out on the screwhead before locking up in the hole. Whew!
David,So, let me see if I understand: a 3/8" maple plug will work with the ulin board I have?
The plugs will likely be a different color, no? It does sound a bit precarious. My only qualm would be that the meat left for the screw to bit into could be insufficient for those boards that are bowed, but that's just a guy with no experience "in the field" talking.
I just used maple as an example (because they are readily available), but it's not something you would use outdoors in a deck. Either buy or make your own, probably the latter if you want the same species. The trick will be finding a nice plug cutter that does the right size plug.
You used Bristol? That is where the Ipe (decking, 2x4 rails and 4x4 post came from. My sister is up in Vermont and everyone there wanted $2.40/ft for 1x6 and Bristol was about $1.90, with shipping it was still much less. The Ipe was pretty good, only real complaint was a 12 footer was exactly 12' and their end sealer is blue and was on the surface some. The place I get it in MA, all the boards are about 2" longer than the size so you can cut of the dings and minimize waste.
Yeah, I just did a web search for ipe plugs and they came up. Their price was a little lower than elsewhere and I talked to them on the phone, they said they made them in their shop. About 1/2 of the first batch were undersized for width (and not really tapered either), using the same 3/8" forstner bits I've used for eons. They sent me a new batch with the same problem.
I ended up talking to the owner on the phone. He swore up and down that he sold a lot of plugs and had never had any returned, but I swore up and down that I've been a woodworker for 20+ years and have put tapered plugs in thousands of 3/8" holes, and his plugs didn't work.
Last week I did some stairs and plugged all the screwholes in the treads with 3/8" maple plugs from the hardware store. They work perfectly as usual. I haven't measured, but I think those plugs are about 5/16" long and lock up at about 1/4". You can tap them down a little more, to about 1/32" proud and then sand or scrape them.
If you end up going the plug route and make your own, I'd highly suggest the Lee Valley plug cutters. They make tapered plugs and are very well made:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32320&cat=1,180,42288
Thanks, Wayne, for the info and link on a good plug cutter! I will definitely get a set of these if I go the plug route.
Edited 8/21/2006 1:41 am by redoak
David,Forgot to ask you what size screw I should use for face screwing (I'm leaning in that direction). Would a #7 be adequate? I really only have one 2 x 4 lying flat to screw into (there are shims between the two layers because the concrete tilts in towards the house). Should I go for a 2 1/4" or could I get away with 1 5/8"What do you think of Rick's idea that I only need one screw per joist? Thanks again for all your help.
DDay,I appreciate the feedback. You're the second person to reference This Old House's method of using marine adhesive. I probably eliminated this possibility by taking David Meiland's suggestion (see above) of putting Vycor on the sleepers. I take your point about time and patience. I'm also an artist, so I fully appreciate aesthetics, but I'm inclined to use a small head ss #7 2 1/4" torque (star) drive screw. My wife, who spent ten years in Japan (five of which training in a 14c Zen temple....also think traditional Japanese joinery) is fighting me on this one. She doesn't want to see any screws. Yes, I've heard about the bowrench, but my sleeperss are lying flat on the concrete and I believe this tool is designed to grip the narrow width of a 2 x 4 joist?Have not heard of either grk fasteners or headcote. Will call around. Deckmate makes a colored screw but the heads are way too big and I don't believe the screw itself is ss.Awsome deck! Did you do it? Really beautiful work!
Edited 8/20/2006 3:50 pm by redoak
If your sleepers are laying flat, you can just cut a few 16" or whatever (depending on the sleeper spacing) 2x8's or 2x10's, etc diagonally to make a triangle wedge. Screw in one wedge an inch or two from the board to straighten, then hammer the other wedge in to create a levering action. This method works well but adds some time. The wedge will stay so you can screw off the Ipe.
What you mentioned about Deckmaster is true, they are coated screws, not SS and around here I've only seen them in a light tan or forest green color. Either would look terrible on Ipe. Both Grk and headcote make the colored head that blend with Ipe.
As David mentioned in an earlier post, and I added to with link on venting the Ipe. With the Ipe that close to the ground, I think you might have trouble with cupping as David mentioned. As you set on a deck, around here anything that low would be a paver or blue stone patio.
DDay,Reread your post (#31) this morning. Not sure exactly how to visualize what you suggested below. Can you help me out a little?"If your sleepers are laying flat, you can just cut a few 16" or whatever (depending on the sleeper spacing) 2x8's or 2x10's, etc diagonally to make a triangle wedge. Screw in one wedge an inch or two from the board to straighten, then hammer the other wedge in to create a levering action. This method works well but adds some time. The wedge will stay so you can screw off the Ipe.""With the Ipe that close to the ground, I think you might have trouble with cupping as David mentioned."That would be a shame. Even with underside of boards sealed, decking on 3 inch high sleepers, mostly under a roof, and a 3/16" gap between boards? Got the idea for decking a patio from Scott Schuttner's Building a Deck (Taunton's Build Like a Pro). It seems he could have added a proviso about the need for good ventilation and the possibility of cupping? Both you and Dave seem to be saying that a deck that low to the concrete is not such a good idea. Too late now. :0(Edited 8/23/2006 11:03 am by redoak
Edited 8/23/2006 11:04 am by redoak
I think the main thing with the cupping is to try and keep the ground under the deck as free from moisture as possible. If the are is covered, that will help. Also, the cupping really is just the top drying out much faster than the bottom. If you had your set up in direct sun, then it certainly cup, since the sun would dry the top so fast.
Below is a pic of the set up I mentioned. These wedges are just scraps from some stairs I just cut, so they are smaller than what would be best. The best size would be longer ones with a low pitch, so you can control how far it pushes the board. Where the screws are, I would use those little lag style bolts from masterfastener (for the strength, although 1x4's shouldn't put up much of a fight.) The wedge that is between the screwed in wedge and board is the one that you will hit from the flat side to move the board. This should explain it but let me know if you have any other questions.
to add to the fine info you are receiving and the endless info you could discover in the archivesI've done some decks over concrete like you're speaking of and they work great & i'm maybe 65 miles south of you
your situation out of the hot sun should take cupping out of the equation and perhaps my next recommendation but I like to keep that wood whether it is treated or not off the concrete w/ glazers blocks you can get at your local glass shop ( little pads of rubber 1/16 to 1/4" thick looks like good black licorice) - a SS screw through that as a little foot under the wood lets it breathe a tad
pressure treated wood is no panacea
could be cavalier but w/ ipe I've bought you could go one screw on either side every 3' and you would have a beautiful flooreb-tys come in different sizes to provide for different spacings
I've used them w/ 5/4 or 1X and am completely satisfied but glue has been a part of the fastening scheme each timeBlackstock Lumber on the water just north of Seattle City Center should have plugs, screws etcbeen mentioned before but it all sands beautifully toogfood on ya to coat the bottoms / I'd do all four sides again and then you can put them down as they lay rather than worrying about getting the coated side downthe curved pieces are better used cut up for smaller areas, thresholds etc
John,Thanks for reassuring me on the cupping.My sleepers (pressure treated wood) are unfortunately already down, but putting a thin pad of rubber under them is a great idea! I'll store that one away for my next deck
:0) (or when a friend wants advice for his deck).Did you happen to use Headcote's color coated screws on your ipe, or is the SS relatively unobtrusive looking?Good to know that eb-ty comes in different sizes for different spacings. I've been to Blackstock before! Am having trouble locating the above screw in the Seattle area. Maybe Blackstock carries them?Yes, another coat on all four sides is a good idea.I'm trying to use the full 14' lengths uncut, but I may be forced to do some butt ends if I can't get them sufficiently straight.As the weather turns and the rains commence, if I run out of time, would I be better off waiting until next Spring to put the deck in? I'm assuming the boards will want to expand with the added humidity, etc? Thanks for all of your good advice.
DDay,Thanks for the pic and explanation. Ingenous. I got it.By the way, Headcote's Smart-Bit is meant for 5/4" boards (permanent collar), but it worked well for your sister's 1x6 deck?
Edited 8/24/2006 10:30 am by redoak
For that deck, I used SS finish nails and glue. the headcote site says up to 5/4" material, the bit drills 1 1/8" holes, if your using 2 1/4" screws there should not be a problem. I would check with them just to make sure but I think it would be fine.
touch on a few things you mentioneddon't give anything away about whether the rains have begun or not
let them & aid them in thinking it always rains herebut I think you have deck weather to mid October so get it done, get off your knees raise your fist to the heavens & give a toast to you & yoursyes - my designs layouts have everything to do w/ using long lengths & no seams
can't help you w/ headcote - I've always used those that come w/ ebty packs or other SS trimheads I have
think McFeelys has been mentioned - they have everything you need for color coded applications & sometimes mail is better than driving these days - maybe too late for this deck but their catalog touches on much of what this whole thread is about & they do have the screwssalud John
"don't give anything away about whether the rains have begun or not
let them & aid them in thinking it always rains here."I moved out here in '73 when Seattle was nearly empty. It was more like what Bellingham is now, but with 1/8th the culture. Then the mass migrations started in the early 80's. And the tidal wave of humanity just keeps coming. I think it will take far more than rain to turn this around. Didn't know about McFeelys before hearing from you guys. It's a great resource. They do carry some of the Headcotes, but not my length, so I ordered from Headcote directly. Couldn't find anyone in Seattle who carried them. I hear you about mail being cheaper than gas!Thanks, John, for all your help. I'll owe a lot to you guys when my deck is finished (before the rain).
Sounds like lots of good advice. I was heavily involved with the sales and installation of IPE, Deckmasters, Eb-Tys, Bow-wrench, etc... for a number of years. I installed my own deck with 1x6 and the eb-ty system, including adhesive. I would not recommend the eb-tys with 1 x 6. Only use it on 1x4. The thickness to width ratio for 1x6 is not sufficient and there is more movement than I would have liked. Eb-Tys are perfectly suited also for 5/4 x 4 and 5/4 x 6, etc.. the Deckmaster system was my favorite. My neighbors deck was built with Deckmasters and 5/4x6 IPE, over 12 years ago. It is as solid today as the day I installed it. The deckmaster is best suited for 5/4 and thicker material. I intend to build my next deck with 5/4 x 6 IPE and stainless Deckmasters. A suggestion that I would have is to use Anchorseal on your end cuts prior to installation of the wood. I remember buying it from the manufacturer in Buffalo NY. It controls the end checking that might occur. It would be very minimal however. It is very expensive material...take the time and do it right. Mcfeely's is a great source for the fasteners. For using the Eb-Tys you will need to use a stainless trim head. I think it was a 2-1/4" or so..Maybe a #7 diameter. Not sure
Bottom line...I would use EB-TYs and adhesive with your 1 x 4. Then plug (3/8) the various areas that you have no other choice. Use Gorilla glue with the plugs. All of my plugs are still going strong after many years. In my humble opinion the IPE( also Iron Wood, Pau Lope, etc...)is the best proven long term decking available. It is very expensive...so take the time (a lot of it)and do it right. You will be extremely satisfied with the results now and for years to come. I still have people telling me that it was the best investment they made.If you want it to silver out...do nothing. If you choose to keep the look, (which I do) then hit it with a power washer (2500-3000 psi... don't worry it can more than handle it) once or twice a year and then give it 2 coats of a tinted transparent stain. Being that you have a covered porch your finish will last significantly longer. I have tried all the brands over the years, Penofin, Sikkens, even Olympic..They all seem to perform well. All depends upon the amount of sun exposure.
Good luck...Let me know how it all turns outRick
Rick,Thanks a lot for weighing in. I think I'm leaning in the direction of using either a headcote ss screw or burying the screws and plugging them. David Meiland (see post #25 above) lives in my area (Pacific NW) and personally does not recommend using a hidden fastener system with an ironwood like ipe, etc. He seems to think they'd be ok with cedar, etc. But one other factor that discourages me from using a hidden deck system: the concrete porch I'm putting the deck on isn't perfectly square (one side is 7/8" longer than the other), so I will have to add an extra 1/16" to each gap on the short end to make the boards come out when I'm finished. I don't think there is a way to accomodate for that extra spacing with a hidden deck system? At any rate, I'm inclined to take his advice on this one.I agree with you on your thoughts regarding ironwood, etc. as the best decking available. And expensive, yes! I just spent $650 for the ulin alone (for a 5' x 14' deck)! Good tip on using a power washer. Yes, I definitely intend to hit it with Penofin (what I bought to do the underside of the boards before installation) at least once a year.I'll get back to you when it's finished. Thanks again for posting!Edited 8/22/2006 11:12 am by redoak
Edited 8/22/2006 11:52 am by redoak
One more thing in regards to the plugs. I learned this trick from an old pro. I used a Fuller 3/8" plug cutter. From McFeely's. I took a piece of scrap IPE and planned it to about a 1/4" thicker than my required plug length. Using a drill press I began cutting plugs. Do NOT break all the way through the board. Stop just short of breaking completely through. Set your Drill press stop for this. Next flip the board over and begin belt sanding the board across its face. Don't use a planner. The plugs will simply fall out, with clean edges. When plugging the 3/4" IPE my screw placement was approximately a 1/4" or slightly more below the surface. I did NOT use a tappered cutter. Just make sure that you use a quality counterbore that leaves a good close tolerance 3/8" hole. A tapered plug won't be effective enough in only a 1/4" of length.Another suggestion....Like you really need another (ha ha). When surface fastening the 1x4, only install 1 screw per joist, and then simply alternate from one edge of the board to the other as you go down the length of the board. With the stability of the IPE , you will great results Not to mention 50% less screws and plugs.
Once again...Good luck!RickO
Rick,So the point of your method of making plugs this way is cleaner edges? What's the downside of doing it the conventional way."A tapered plug won't be effective enough in only a 1/4" of length."Have you found this to be true from personal experience? Did you ever have problems getting a 3/8" plug (straight sides) into a 3/8" hole?"When surface fastening the 1x4, only install 1 screw per joist, and then simply alternate from one edge of the board to the other as you go down the length of the board. With the stability of the IPE , you will great results Not to mention 50% less screws and plugs."This surprises me! That would be great if it actually works. I'm not planning on using adhesive as I took David Meiland's suggestion of putting Vycor on the sleepers.I'm assuming that ipe and ulin (Borneo ironwood) are similar in their stability?
I would stay away from the ebty system, because if ipe wants to move it will pull the trimhead screws right out of the plastic biscuit.
It can also be hard to straighten a board and hold it in place with ebty.
You have to face screw the outside course which unless plugged ruins the effect anyway.
I've gotten good results with systems that attach to the joists and screw into the bottom of the decking, but you need good access underneath the deck, and it's a PITA to work over your head or lying on your back.
Tiger Claw was expensive for large decks, difficult to install, and one HO complained about being able to see the clips.
I've never tried it, but I can't believe a 15 ga. finish nail could hold ipe even long enough for glue to dry if it had to be put in with a bowrench.
I'm in central TX and have more problems with shrinking than expansion,(already more than 20+ days over 100deg.) so I slam ipe tight and face screw with 2 1/4 #7 ss Torx trim head screws by Swan, about $170 for 1750 supposed to do about 500 sq. ft. Counter-sink with a stepped #12 bit (e.g. FHB #181 pg. 110 picture on left) the part that drills the clearance hole is the right size for a trimhead. Buy plenty of extra bits, and make sure they have the flat for the set screw.
hope this helps
mctex,Thanks for posting. If I can just convince my wife to let go, I'm with you, i.e., face screw the boards. #7 Headcote ss sounds like the way to go; the color will minimize the look of the screws. Man, I feel for you guys down there in Texas! I sure as hell hope this isn't a sign of things to come.
"I've never tried it, but I can't believe a 15 ga. finish nail could hold ipe even long enough for glue to dry if it had to be put in with a bowrench."
Your only putting two nails every four feet or so, it depends on how it feels. The glue starts to set in about an hour and the next day its completely set. I'm doing one right now, about half way through and the boards from yesterday would break before the glue let go. It would be an interesting test, like the mythbusters show to see how much force it would take to break the bond. I've haven't seen any Ipe with a real hook, only 3/4" over 10 feet or so, so you not pulling them back 3". A few times I needed 3 nails in one joist because when I bo wrenched it the gap closed a bit.
One of the houses this old house used this method on was the show's GC's brother, who is also a contractor and partner of TOH's GC silva. The first time I saw it 8 years ago, I was skeptical but when they are using it on their own houses as well as customers, I was open minded.
Edited 8/20/2006 10:34 pm ET by DDay
One of the houses this old house used this method on was the show's GC's brother, who is also a contractor and partner of TOH's GC silva.
Silva also used it this last season on their uber-project, the pull-out-all-the-stops modern house they did. It was a roof deck, though.
Jason
That "house" was gross. I hate modern crap like that, especially in this area where there are houses 200 years old, lots of georgian, victorian, etc. but things with character and nice looks.
I was in the area where they did the carlisle, ma georgian with the barn. Wow. You could not be less impressed by the exterior of a house. Those camera men are very good at getting something to look ten times better on TV than in person.
There are a few things here and their that are good idea's but mostly they use very expensive, donated tools or products and they really don't make sense to use.
where are you getting your stepped bits?
Vermont American seems to be the only company still making that style that I could find. I bought 50 on ebay 2 years ago. The countersink itself lasts a lot longer than the 1/8 pilot bit.
Anybody tried these?
http://www.ipeclip.com/
I just want to express my deep appreciation to everyone who has posted thus far. This is truly a great discussion board! The depth of experience generously shared is definitely worth it's weight in gold, especially for someone like myself whose expertise is not carpentry (although I'm eager to learn). Much gratitude! The world at times may seem like it's going to hell in a handbasket, but my faith in humanity is reinforced here.