Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 07, 2004 04:32am | #1

   Back then it was Shellac. Simple as pie 2 coats, 3lb. cut.

2. 
   WayneL5 | Jan 07, 2004 05:30am | #2

   Danish oil doesn't seal especially well.  It's not as easy to clean as a finish that produces something of a surface, like polyurethane or shellac.

   Water based polys are so clear that they produce an unnatural look.  I'd stay away from them.

   How about making some test pieces.  It's an important enough decision to make some prototypes.

   The folks over in Knots would have a lot of experience at finishing.

3. 
   VaTom | Jan 07, 2004 04:38pm | #3

   I've rarely finished fir, but I too find Watco insufficient.  Doesn't seem to resist water vapor transmission very well.  But if you add some polyurethane, maybe 20%, you get a heavier oil that works very well. 

   Preferably, start out with two wet coats, one immediately following the first, and let dry overnight.  Then wet sand with the oil mix, using 220 wet/dry paper.  For furniture I go another step to wet sand with 1000 paper to get a glowing finish that most mistake for lacquer.  Waiting longer between wet sandings helps.  If you don't want to bother with wet sanding, wipe off the excess after the second coat.  Won't be as smooth, but will be ready to nail up.  If it seems a little dried out to you in a couple of years, go back over it with the same mixture, wiping off any excess. 

   Nothing wrong with shellac either if you want a hard finish.  Easy to apply.  My preference for trim is an oil finish so that dings are simple to touch up.  This is neither cheaper nor faster than spraying a hard finish, but does give a nice result.

   Don't burn down the house with improperly stored oily rags. 

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   DougR | Jan 07, 2004 10:04pm | #4

   For my money, lacquer is the most beautiful finish you can get (I get great results with Deft). The only problem (and a big one) is the odor. But if you can deal with it, you get a glowing finish with a silky feel and super-fast drying times (3-4 coats in one day). Water-based polys also give you fast drying times, but you don't get that subtle amber tone and you'll get grain-raising on most woods. There are some quick-drying oil-based polys nowadays that have low odor and good flow characteristics. These would be my choice if lacquer is not practical. One other point- lacquer can show water spots (on a table top for instance) while poly will not.

1. 
   VaTom | Jan 08, 2004 04:37am | #9

   One other point- lacquer can show water spots (on a table top for instance) while poly will not.

   I agreed with you about lacquer until this.  My experience is several barrels of different lacquers.  Most that I used have no problem with water spotting.  For trim, lacquer is, in my estimation, a poor choice due to touch-up difficulties.  It's gonna get banged up.  Shellac, while easier to touch-up, has similar problems.

   The glow I get from Watco plus polyurethane is very similar to lacquer.  The feel cannot be differentiated.  Only when I need a piano type finish, requiring a large number of lacquer coats, does the oil fail, even followed with paste wax.  Otherwise, both for odor and friendliness, oil works well.  Cheaper or faster?  No.

   I have no use for polyurethane other than as a Watco additive.   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

4. 
   gdavis62 | Jan 07, 2004 10:08pm | #5

   Check out Waterlox sealers and finishes.  Easy to work with, and beatiful results.  Satin or gloss.

5. 
   user-222107 | Jan 08, 2004 02:37am | #6

   I just got done finishing VG fir for the interior millwork.  I used Daly's products (local Seattle Company) http://www.dalyspaint.com/  .  Used Benite wood conditioner, teak stain No. 44, Pro-fin clear finish.

   I used a three step process.  Benite wood conditioner, followed by stain, followed by rubbed on clear finish.  This provides a nice interior satin finish that is durable to typical interior wear and tear.  Two coats of rubbed on finish is recommended but adds another step=time.  The wood conditioner is necessary for the VG fir to eliminate bloching if you're applying a stain.  The rubbed off teak stain provides a nice soft tone.  I used Daly's Floor-fin for the interior VG stairs which look fantastic.  Also, I sanded down one of the old VG beams and posts in the basement and applied two coats of Interlux interior satin spar varnish.  This gave a very nice deep rustic tone to the aged fir which looks great.

   I would post several pics but my network servers prevent me for some reason.  send me an email if you want to see pics.

   Joe

6. 
   KGambit | Jan 08, 2004 03:08am | #7

   If you want something authentic to the period, go with shellac. It's not as durable as poly, or varnish, but it is easy to apply, and very easy to repair.

    I would do a 1lb sealer coat, followed by a light sanding, then one or two 3lb coats.

   I don't understand! I cut it twice and it's still too short!

7. 
   RW | Jan 08, 2004 04:04am | #8

   For the period and look you're shooting for, I gotta vote shellac as well. You can get some color into the mix just by using a different grade of shellac, like garnet. More coats equals darker color. A lot of that old stuff has a pretty good build up on it. I did a job about a year ago where I had to match what was there, and used VGDF and shellac. I sprayed it in thin coats until the color got to where it needed to be, then shot a coat of CAB lacquer over it for durability. But if you're going to top it with something, you need at least the last couple of coats to be dewaxed.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

8. 
   goldhiller | Jan 08, 2004 07:35am | #10

   The world of wood finishes kinda goes like this...............

   It's a sliding scale with ease of repair on one end and generally high overall durability on the other.

   On the ease of repair end we would see oil finishes, nitrocellulose lacquer and shellac.

   Moving toward the durability end we would see polyurethanes, catalyzed lacquers and catalyzed varnishes.

   Each of these finishes will impart a somewhat different visual value to the wood.

   We have for some time seen favor amongst cabinet and furniture manufacturers for the catalyzed finishes because they offer fast dry times that make them less vulnerable to contamination from airborne dusts and those fast dry and cure times help get them in the box and out the door that much faster. While very tough finishes in general which is a good thing in most households, the downside is that repair down the road is virtually impossible. It's always strip and start over.

   Sidenote: Nitro lacquer is not to be confused with cat-lacquer. Completely different critters in performance and repair. And........you won't be applying any catalyzed finish without a spray rig.

   An oil finish may not suit you well on woodwork because it is a penetrating finish and because of that "hand applied dirt" can still actually get into the wood and be more difficult if not impossible to remove without some sanding and refinishing. But a film type finish is just that. A film between you and the wood. That "hand applied dirt" is on the surface where it is accessible for removal. Which of these finishes will work adequately or best for you depends upon your habits. Oil finish may work dandy for one person while would be found wanting in another household. FWIW, I almost always boost my Watco with 40% gloss oil-based poly for a more durable and lusterous finish. Two coats would be an absolute minimum for your wood. Three would be better.

   I always assess a client's habits and the likely needs of a situation before recommending or deciding on a choice of finish.

   Shellac is an inherently high gloss finish. Homestead Finishing offers a flattening agent for shellac, but I've personally never used it so can't offer an opinion. This isn't to say that shellac is the wrong choice for you, just a warning that it'll be glossy unless you add a flattener. You usually must work along fairly fast if applying shellac by brush because it flashes easily and then you get lap marks.

   I have no problem using the family of polyurethanes. Properly applied to a properly prepared surface and they look just fine. Not something I'd recommend for an antique secretary, but just fine for everyday surfaces or those that need extra durability.

   Edit again: Forgot to say that a factor in your choice may be the circumstances of the project. If you've already installed this trim in the raw and are finishing it in place, then vapors and off-gassing becomes a consideration particularly if your climate is such that the house needs to be closed up. Large amounts of applied lacquers, oil-based polys or varnishes can get you ill in a hurry. If you can isolate a room at a time from the rest of the house, you'll be in better shape concerning that. If forced air, don't forget to seal off any cold air returns in the room.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

   Edited 1/7/2004 11:39:51 PM ET by GOLDHILLER

   
   

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   Edited 1/8/2004 9:50:22 AM ET by GOLDHILLER

9. 
   briank | Jan 08, 2004 08:11am | #11

   One of the big problems with shellac is that the sun really does a number on it---look at any old door or window and you will see how deteriorated the finish is.  I had my local paint store mix up some stain to match existing trim color and then covered it with oil-based poly mixed with a little of the stain.  Very hard to tell the new windows from the existing trim.

10. 
    hammer1 | Jan 08, 2004 09:00am | #12

    I always try to follow the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. There are all kinds of finishing materials and processes that have there plusses and minuses. If you are a beginner don't get complicated. My all time favorite is Zip-Guard oil based satin polyurethane right from the can. If possible I recommend one coat before installation. Set up a finishing area with some make shift racks. Install the trim, fill nail holes with color putty to match, lightly sand with 220, apply second coat of poly. If you want to take it up a notch buff the dry final coat with 0000 steelwool and apply a light coat of paste wax let it dry and buff with a cotton towell. Of all the finishes I have used over the years and brands, this is fool proof and looks as good and lasts as long as any.