Wondering if anyone has an opinion on the best interior latex paint???
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Replies
Thats a good question.
1. The best covering paint
2. The best brushing as in ease of cutting in.
3. The sturdiest paint after its applied.
4. The best adhesion paint offering a built in primer.
I dont know of any paint that is all that.
Tim Mooney
Why yes,.......... yes I do.
So, whatcha painting
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My votes with Benny Moore
Be covered
Namaste
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Do you guys think that more expensive paints are really better? How do you like the paints from Lowes? they seem good and are much cheaper.
Well I like a higher quality paint which usually translates to more money.
There are additives but paint basically has three components. Pigment, binder or resin, and solvents. The solvent in latex is water
So in general, the way to cut price is to use less water. :)
What is left on the wall after the paint dries is the solids. And to lower the price they lower the % of pigments or binders or both,..... the solids.
Less pigment effects hiding power and less resin effects the durabilitity and level of gloss.
Compare the contents of your paints. My take is that the paint is a small % of the total job so why pinch your pennies there
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Barry E
My favorite is Singapore Sunset Saffron
Or off white.
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I use Benjamin Moore and an occasional SW
Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piff,
Have been using BM exclusively for about 14 yrs now. I do a lot of property management etc. However, they have changed their formulas in the last year. The way the guy at the store put is: They have dropped the titanium in the paint, and this directly affects the way the paint covers.
I painted my living room with Benji Moore pale yellow (over off white). Even though I was careful, I had to use two coats. It was NEVER like this. The useability of the paints, ease of spread, lack of roller splatter etc are still the same, but..........
BENJAMIN MOORE DOES NOT COVER LIKE IT USED TO, AND I WILL NOT SPEND $27.00 A GALLON FOR PAINT THAT TAKES TWO COATS TO COVER "OFF WHITE".
. Sorry, I had to do that in case someone from BM reads this thread.
My son is a professional painter, and he only uses F&H. I should have listened to him, but always had good results with BM before THEY CHEAPENED IT UP.
The soap box is all yours.
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
F&H?? What is F&H?
Ready to be embarrassed....
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Not sure. Have not tried it yet. Commercial stuff, avail in 5 gal buckets etc. Name is just that "F&H". Is avail in NJ. If I get more info, I will post here.
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Finnaren & Haley. Small, regional paint manufacturer. http://www.fhpaint.com
F & H is Finneran & Haley, manufactured in Philadelphia. I use Valspar from Lowes.On my last project I got the color wrong. They took it back,full credit. I have found the key to success with latex enamel is Floetrol. Put about an inch in per gallon. You will need multiple coats.Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
An inch of what ? Did that mean raise the level in the 1 gal can by an inch, or, use 1" from the 1 qt size of Floetrol, or, ?".
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
The ratio of Floetrol to paint is unscientific. The product (claims to) improve the flow of paint without diluting it. It works. I split the gallon into 2 halves, add 1/2in. to both halves,mix back and forth. It's 1inch to the gallon. Use whatever quantity makes the paint flow the way you want it to.Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
Couple of years back Shopco was carring paint in there in house brand. So I gave it a try. I maintain 10 properties so I'm always looking for cheaper alternitives. So the paint had some really good qualities. So for a couple of years I would watch for a sale and could get white white Satin for 9$ a gal, so I'd get a cart and see if I could overload it. Any way with a little research I find that Val Spar made it for them. I could paint a property and go back in after a rerent of a couple of years and spot patch and spot paint and still get a nice looking match. Good scrubabllity,flow,finish ect ect. But unfortunately they don't handle paint any more[sniff sniff]. But as every body has been saying Lowes is carring Valspar, it's there house brand.
One other point about painting that I figured out over to much time and money. If the project is big enough to spray, don't get to hung up on the quality of the finish spray. The paint should be rolled out, the sprayer is really just the pumper to deliver the paint.
Clay Schoelpple (sometimes a cheap painter looking for expensive results)
Lowes just opened in my area about 2 months ago. Have not tried anything there yet. Be careful, sometimes good companies make mediocre products for big retailers.
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
Must admit that I really like Valspar latex paints, but being in small retail don't like shopping at the "big boxes" for too much...
Still won't switch to latex for interior trim--prefer enamel and underbody. Latex still can't (in my experience) match the extreme "scrubability" and freedom from blocking (sticking to other objects) of alkyd.
Many of the changes in Benjamin Moore paints have been occasioned by the dear EPA. I used to ADORE satin Impervo--it flowed and leveled like a dream right out of the can. A few years ago the EPA changed the VOC regs and you now have to thin it--yet it STILL won't behave as well. Brush strokes used to be so slight that the untrained often thought my brush painting was sprayed--no more!
They also required them to change the formulation for underbody. BM dealer told me, "If you didn't like the changes to Impervo, you're gonna' HATE the change to underbody. Stocked up well and am on my last gallon now so will have to try something--was told it no longer sands like it did and rapidly clogs the paper.
BM had the same problem (EPA) with their paste wood grain filler. It used to be easiest and best drying I'd found but now can take WEEKS to dry and sand properly. Am about to go back to water-based grain filler.
Purdy brushes are my current favorite for aklyd paint, but still like Best Liebco for latex.
I'd like to know who here is exclusivly a pro painter and thats all you do and for how long.
Be a painter
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I understand where you are comming from by asking the question. A lot of people do their own painting , but they dont make a living doing it . I posted once that drywall and painting were treated similar. On the other hand if we were discussing stairways for example, it would be a discussion more to the same content. You are more likely to hear a buffet of different thoughts on this subject. It will continue to be so. Take the supermarket approach taking what you need and leave the rest on the shelve. Seems to cut down on offending folks and you still have your knowledge.
Tim Mooney
Across the Sound and out to sea on Nantucket Island.Painting for 24 years.Are you laughing as hard as me on all the paint selection suggestions !Quality is suggested as a means to cash recovery!
There are lots of things that effect coverage. The Titanium Dioxide is the solid in the mix that helps cover and hide. The percentage is clearly listed on the paint. You always want at least 20%. I'll have to check opld cans in the shop and compare to same product now. It was closer to two years ago that they changed the formulas. My biggest gripe about that is that with the new mixes, you don't get the same looking colour to match an old job by simply looking in your old records and ordering that one.
Coverage has a lot to do with prep and texture too. ie. if you are paionting over a wall that has experienced cigarette smoke or where candles have burned and you don't wash it down with TSP, any paint will want to slide right off.
I'm not doubting what you say in your circumstance but I have noticed no decline in their quality. I wouldn't make a judgement on their whole line based on one wall.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Problem is that it wasn't just one wall. I repainted my entire house, over 18 gallons ($500) worth. I had just remodeled my bath and kitchen, new sh rk, primed with muralo (563 I think, have to check the can) tinted off white. It then took two coats of BM to cover, spread nice and heavy with a 3/8" napp roller (good one). I was cutting with a quality polyester/nylon brush.
I don't do a ton of painting, about 30 gals per year, but I have used paint from sears years ago that covered in one coat, and paint from hd (BAREly covers brand) that wasn't worth the can it came in. Over the last 15-18 years, I have used BM exclusively. I have used various oil paints from BM, and have used their Kit/Bath paint also. I have used satin, eggshell, flat, and some high gloss. This last time, with my house of course, the paint went on just as smoothly as ever, no splatter, no runs, no drips, just a problem with transparency. The Same rollers, same brush, same nut on the ladder. I went through 3 gals doing a 14 X 17 room and an adjacent 10 ft long hall. The paint feels, and works the same, but the dried results are different.
As I mentioned, my son is a pro painter, and he told me they had to stop using BM, because of the same problem. I feel that for $27 a gal, paint should cover in one coat. It did before. If you find out what the problem is, please let me know. Thanks Piff.
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
I'm already asking questions. My painters have been using Ben Moore's Super whatever sheetrock primer on this job. The sheet rockers are finishing up and They often spray the primer on other new work for me so I asked them what primer they use on it. He said, "Well, we used to use BM until they thinned it up lately so now we've gone to using SW or brand X. I don't rtemember the name of this other but he mentioned that it is so thick that it burns up airless sprayuers except fot the biggest heavy duty one they have but that it really makes things disappear.
I just rolled in to the storage room and looked at the super spec fivers I have and they say that TO2 exists but not how much. I looked at an old AquaVelvet can and found that it labels for TO2 at 24%.
Somebody tell us what the new AquaV has for TO2?.
Excellence is its own reward!
I've seen them using this new stuff that's supposed to be a combination primer and skim-coat and they have to use a heavy-duty pump sprayer to place it. Next time I see it, I'll try and get the name..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I'm sure Tim Mooney knows. The guy told me today but I already forgot it..
Excellence is its own reward!
USG has a new primer-surfacer that is called Tuff-Hide that is supposed to do a Level 5. It goes on wet at 9 mils. There is another one called Spray-Plast.
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Barry E
Thats it.
Tim Mooney
Ok Piffin, dispite how much I hate talking about painting, I will give it a shot.
I should also explain something, I have zero tolerence for someone posing as an expert here when they have only a slight clue. I have a high regard for the real advice I have taken away from this site, but I tend to cop an attitude when I see what I call "posing".
I weigh what is said by a homeowner vs what is posted by a pro, and I hold the pros here to a high standard. Now you have to temper that with the fact that I will get in your face in real life, and I may say things that won't make your day.
I will join the conversation, and welcome debate. So here are a few thoughts, as I read through this thread, >>
Post one was wide open, post 2, (thank you Tim), tried to focus the disscussion.
The rest was a free for all.
Are expensive paints better?
We have some discussion on the bases of paints? Details scientists, I've yet to see any.
We have some discussion about application tools and methods, while off topic I can live with it.
Post 15, Tim again tries to tell you, the contractor choses the paint for the job, a quality contractor will know what will work. I will add here that very few have had the pleasure to work with a quality painting contractor.
Let me throw Phill a bone to post #20 with regard to how long a roller pad will last. First you choose a quality roller cover, then you don't beat it to death. You choose the cover like you chose the paint, you choose it for the job. Everyone will need to choose a different one for the way they work, there is no right answer here.
We now get into using Floetrol, I only can give my blessing under certain conditions, using certain coatings and certain applications. The way I read this thread, and any other painting thread here, is throw Floetrol at everything you see, you now know more than the next guy. Sorta like mix in dishsoap to all of your joint compound.
I have to ignore some things now, I am trying to add something here, not goof, and I am only human. I actually think this is where I lost it on this thread.
We now have someone that has issues with BM Wall Satin, hmm. Mix that with what CR thinks and I am about to go offa the wall.
Now someone wants to cover onecoat with yellow. Their someone is a pro and determines BM sux because they changed their formula. Well, first of all, yellow pigments cover like crap, and if you think they cover poorly, try some of the transparent red pigments. Secondly, I have seen nothing but improvement in the BM line of paint.
Floetrol in primer, shoot me!!!
MCYI, I thought I was on your ignore list? You ought to, because I Will rock the boat when I get fed up with bs posted here.
MTINSEMO, try different reducers, Impervo is what I use for my house trim. "my" trim, it is rare that I do an oil job for others.
<side note to Andy and Newf> I have been painting pro since I was 13, and by the time I was 18 there wasn't anyone in Mass that could touch me. Newf, stop trying to cause trouble, I do well enough on my own.
Post #63, someone is thinking now.
Pif post # 67, exterior primer is a whole 'nother animal, different world.
Steve, post #71, if you prime/seal you buy two coats of finish. While I hear your frustrations with BM, I don't think there is a damn thing wrong with 3 coat specs. You want a few lists? You can have your pro boy show me how to spec 2 coat, but I doubt he will tell me anything I don't know.
Hmm, Phill wants to talk about bath coatings. This is one of the most dangerous places you place paint. You have to get your head around what is there, and what you will coat it with. A quick tip is, if your base is sealed, you had beter not apply a transmisible coating.
Pif #79, it will be the day I let a drywaller spray a job. Let your painter get in there and save him the grief of a bad prime. I suspect your painters have been using Super Hide, nice paint, just about the best volume paint on the market. We could go anywhere with this, and I don't really want to create friction with what you have been happy with. The fact is you have been happy, we can talk later.
The titanium dioxide content varies, it depends if it is a base, what type of base, or if it is a straight white. It is obvious that the to2 content will be higher with a white, or #1 base than it would be with a #4 base. I have often had the to puped up to help with a trim coverage, it is no big deal.
To answer your question about the content, first of all, you must be talking percentage of solids, now you have to forget about all of that and think about what covers what, with what, for what. The answers change, Every job has a paint that works, pick the right paint. I should refer you to what Tim said, "Let your contractor choose the paint", or whatever he said. You choose the contractor.
>>> these were some thoughts I had, we are off the map of fine homebuilding, but feel free to get in my face.
Qtrmeg, always holding his feelings in, it's just not good for ya.
A painter, heh? That explains a lot.
And everybody knows that Leibco makes the BEST brushes and the only cover to use is a foam one. A poor painter blames his tools.
Yellow paint: coverage. made me chuckle
"I have been painting pro since I was 13, and by the time I was 18 there wasn't anyone in Mass that could touch me."
Glad you limited it to one state. )
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Barry E
I held back because this is all bs, what do you have?
And no, I am not a painter, my dad was, but I always kept my mouth shut and my ears open. So I had the hands to do the work, sue me, it kept me amused while I got a few construction degrees.
Guess what, I sell finishing with many of the services I sell. Guess what again, what I sell you could only wish for.
Yellow paint made you chuckle? Laugh it up while I talk pigment science, please.
I guess yellow and red pigments have never been a problem for anyone. Joke it up while you gather your facts.
And ya, I was one hot #### painter, I still am. You?
"I held back because this is all bs, what do you have?"
Some is BS, some is good. Same as any other thread on this site. Your "in your face act" is old hat, but sometimes mildly amusing.
"And no, I am not a painter, my dad was, but I always kept my mouth shut and my ears open. So I had the hands to do the work, sue me, it kept me amused while I got a few construction degrees."
Grandfather, Father, and 5 uncles. Couldn't keep me off the job from 9 yrs old and on. Had to keep my mouth shut and no degrees. When I said "..a painter, that explains a few things", it was a compliment.
"Guess what, I sell finishing with many of the services I sell. Guess what again, what I sell you could only wish for."
HaHaHa Get over yourself. I have.
"Yellow paint made you chuckle? Laugh it up while I talk pigment science, please."
I think I already understand this one, thanks anyway Doc.
"I guess yellow and red pigments have never been a problem for anyone. Joke it up while you gather your facts."
yep they have always been a problem, that's why I chuckled
And ya, I was one hot #### painter, I still am. You?
Good for you. As a matter of fact I am, now that dad has "retired". Thanks for asking.
Willing to learn What do you have? Anything constructive.
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Barry E
Edited 1/30/2003 7:23:09 PM ET by Barry E
Lol, I asked you what you had to add first.
You and I can talk the talk, but how did you let the above get out of hand?
What would you have said if you were me? It was out of control.
What do I know? There are so many things I have to know, and I so not up to date on the science of every new paint out there. I only have about 30 years of experience finding a coating system for this and that.
You are so smart, test me. Painting bores the crap out of me, make it interesting. Throw something by me that stumped you.
Anything...
Newf, stop trying to cause trouble, I do well enough on my own.
Bite me! Again....Kelly said!
...<g>...Peace
Newf
Historical Reminder:Always put Horace before Descartes.
Donald O. Rickter
How did it get out of hand" I quess I did not think it worth arguing about the best roller, I have my preference. Or using what paint where. I know what works for me.
I did think about jumping in about the "best paint". everyone was naming store brands, like SW or ICI only has one type of wall paint. It's kind of like tools, this brand works for that and that brand works good here. Wasn't going to change any minds. And writing isn't my forte.
My first 15 yrs painting was almost entirely production and new cutom houses. You are right, after a time it bored me too, or at least it didn't challenge anymore.
My last 15 yrs have been remodeling and doing my own finishes. I've learned that new work painting and repaints are 2 different animals. Now I've found a new joy in a finish job well done. And it beats having another painter or even worse, the homeowner slop a coat of paint on those cabinets I just built or doors I hung.
We aren't all sharing from the same point of view.
I've painted in a few different areas of the country and the diifferences in technique have always amazed me. Then there's those that believe that you should stain and finish your trim BEFORE you install it.............. grrr
"You are so smart, test me. Painting bores the crap out of me, make it interesting. Throw something by me that stumped you."
Nope not smart, but I've always wondered who collected the material for Chinese bristle brushes? And which part of the body? No don't tell me
And why would ya need a brush smaller than 4"? Must be for Artistes.
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Barry E
"Then there's those that believe that you should stain and finish your trim BEFORE you install it.............. grrr"
You like making money? Im not wanting a war over it , Im just confused .
I do all the finish from drywall on to hooking up appliances.
What is your beef with that? Are you working on an open check book?
My main "little beef " about drywall and painting posts are the methods I hear about . I guess if you are working for the wealthy , anything is possible. Unfortantely,I have to roll on. Anyway ,I want to hear your answer.
Tim Mooney
Edited 1/30/2003 8:29:55 PM ET by Tim Mooney
Tim
I also do the drywall, trim work and painting. And in that order, and yes I do like to make money. But you knew that, didn;t you? :) And maybe someday I will make money, but that has nothing to do wiyh my painting. <g>
No war and no confusion, there are many ways to the same end. I enjoy your discussions about production drywall. It's all about systems. As I said, most of my early painting exiperience was new construction. Early on, my dad developed his "system" He taught it to me, and many others, for us it has worked very well.
And it is was honed doing more than a few houses every year.
Now, I remodel and am not production oriented, but the system still works very well. No complaints, no callbacks.
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Barry E
1. You didnt answer the question .
2. Would you explain this system? Maybe my mind needs changed.
Tim Mooney
Tim
1. Which ? didn't I answer?
2. Which system? The one we used in production painting or the one I use now?
I need to get going, but if you are really interested, I will post tonite.
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Barry E
Im back to pester you.
I realize the timming is bad. I should have worded it better for a positive response . I want you to know that I meant it positive. Heres the deal to prove it;
One of the advantages I hold is that Im the trim man and the painter. That alone holds nics just like hanging and painting your finish drywall. With out doing it all I wouldnt have learned short cuts for one thing. Ive worked with a couple of faster brush men than I am, but they werent faster than a gun. In fact a gun beats 5 of the fastest Ive seen if not more. In my book a fellow with an advantage needs to use it. As Clint said, "gain an edge". You are in a position to make more money by combineing your versatile talents. You have the package, why not use it?
Tim Mooney
Tim
No pestering here. :)
I also do the drywall, trim, stain & finish, and painting. I am always looking for ways to "gain an edge". The older I get, the more edge I need.
With a coupla of exceptions, I agree about the gun being faster for application of material. I make use of both in the proper application.
"You are in a position to make more money by combineing your versatile talents. You have the package, why not use it?"
I quess I'm not following. Which package? And what are the goals? not trying to be funny
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Barry E
Well, this started from your comment about "prefinishing trim". Which I assumed from your post you were against. I dont have the time to go back , copy and paste . Where you left me in my understanding was that you finished capenter work before you did any staining or clear finishing. Maybe painting , Im unsure. You mentioned a couple of exceptions. Well I have a couple also. If I was running hardwood trim , I would put it up before finishing. Thats part of the reason hardwood demands a much higher price. A very small job, or no place to set up would mean raw trim. Color blending stain would be the last exception. So, a high dollar job, or a very small one.
With my exceptions listed I spray and finish a few thousand feet per day if need be, or 100 ft with laquer stain and sealer. Spray guns are always set up when Im trimming. They all hang on a spray rack ready to tackle just a window stool . HLVP,and air guns are ready at all times. I normally use an airless only used in laquer for bigger work, but the small guns hang ready . A big unit only sprays latex. Ive got two units backing up the big one for primer and color change. So Im ready whatever it is , and thats my edge over just a carp and separte painter not working as a team. [ two subs with different interrests]
I could list many but it would be too long to post.
Tim Mooney
Barry
this is gettin' good now. finally. And who'd a thought in the paint department? lol
In all honesty from from a sideline viewer of painting (although I've painted more then I like to remember.....I asked about people that were pros in painting and never thought it'd get there but if wishes were pennies...
Rmemeber when we spoke at BT about guest visitors here? Well, maybe you an QT could sort of have a painting "disscusion"? ROFLO.....no, fer real.aught to be pretty colorful (pun intended). Not as cutting as the political threads (pun intended) though.
PS..Just to say..my last paint job in the house I just sold...painting with deep greens and reds against white ceilings and trim have to take some serious experts I realized (not thet I did a bad job at all). Blue tape don't work .nor does a cuttin in blade. Its all free hand I ended up doing,whewwwwww, what a paint..I mean pain. You guys rock.I mean paint.
Wow
Nice
andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy
I don't know about a discussion. I haven't wrote this much since my Creative Writing class in JC. And that was a loooong time ago. Besides, Qtrmeg would start with his scientific explanation and my eyes would start glazing.....:)
Them old plaster walls can be a challenge to cut. Especially with the dark colors, That's where my 4" wall brush comes in handy. Most of the time it's the illusion of a straight line.
Keep up the stories from LI
Barry
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Barry E
Chill, will ya? I only bite when you bite first.
Huh? What'd I do now?
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Barry E
you know exactly what you did....
don't you ?...
now , can we write the menu ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think Barry and I could stir up enough trouble to get deleted, but it would be all good.
It's not like it didn't take me a while to get used to you, lol.
Well, Qtrmeg, You adressed this to me so I have to respond, but to tell the truth, I can't quite tell what to. You spoke to just about everyone in this thread, with me included. Hard to say if you are criticizing, teaching, or complaining.
Yes, there is a wide range of subject matter and pros mixed with HOs here in this thread. What do you expect at Breaktime anyway?
I agreed 100% with tim Mooney's advice that it's the contractor who picks the paint. Here's how I work on the job - I ask questions from people who know something and I learn from the people who know more than me. That's why I asked both the rock finishers and the painters what they use and why. I shared a little of what they said. As long as they are doing good work, there's no way I'm gonna interfere with what they are doing.
On new work, I have the finishers do the primer and they spray. Never had a problem with it. One reason for this is that we are always under the gun for fast completion here for the summer season. What happens more often than not is that the owners don't make up their mind what colours they want or sometimes, if they will use wallpaper, until they have a season in the house. Next wiunter the furniture gets moved or covered again and the painters go back in for finish coats. So the primer is all they have for the first season. I can even point to a couple rooms that are still primer only after five years. "Why's that paint yellowing over there?" "When are you going to decide what colour you want so we can finish the job?"
Floetrol - I never got the idea from this thread that it was a Godsend for anything and everything. What I learned is that there is a product that can help my paint go on smoother when I'm unhappy with how it's behaving. I suppose it must be in how you read it. Dishsoap? That's for making your finger nails smooth isn't it? I never use the stuff.
;)
TO2?
It was a retired painter who had spent a month at a paint chemistry school and who was then (about 1976) selling paints who told me that I always wanted to look for over 20% to id a good paint. Maybe the context was white paints but I don't think so. I wasn't doing much white back then.
I know that some colours cover harder than others and that's why I wrote way back to the BMcomplainer that there are many conditions that can give him a hard time other than just paint quality. He might still go throiugh life refusing to use one of the best manufactured paints in the country. But it appears that several people have the opinion that BM is not as good as it used to be. Probably so. The govt makes all of us do things worse than we used to. The lead is all gone for starters. My newest gallons of AquaVelvet don't say how much TO2 they have anymore. They used to show 24%. That implies to me that it is reduced. I want to know.
Almost every good painter on this island uses BM except for occasional SW applications or some P&L when a designer specifies it on interiors. I douybt that I'll change from BM but I still want all the knowledge about it all that I can have. I apply about twenty or thirty gallons a year, myself and I supervise jobs where probably three hundred gallons gets used every year so it's a good idea for me to know more. I think I can learn and separate the wheat from the chaff in discussions like this.
Let me sum up what I know about painting in a nutshell;
Prep is half the job before you ever open a can of paint
Use the best paint you can find
Keep everything clean
Work with it - not against it.
See anything you can add to that?
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you, well said. I share your feelings. Old Chinese proverb........"Wise man learn more from fool than fool from wise man."
Is yellow really more of a problem? I am talking about a pale "pastel, butter yellow" over off-white. I had the same coverage/transparency problem with pale green in my dining room. I still only use BM, because of the workability, but I, like you, would really like to know if they changed it. I used to be able (with Pastels) to repaint a room with one coat.Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
QT
Nice post.
This was the reason I wanted to hear from a "professional" painter. Someone that's been doing this for years and I don't mean "just" painting. I mean being serious about his craft as you seem to be.
I really wanted to hear from someone that, on a daily basis tries everything "in the field" and what their "professional" thoughts are.
Consumer Reports can report all they want which is fine and good but they're not in the field under different circumstances and conditions.
Thanks for all the information and please start some threads with your information..its invaluable...We all paint to some degree.
Be painted well
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks piff. Glad to know it is not me or my technique that is going to hell.
Never a problem, just an opportunity to create a solution... :~}
I tried to follow this conversation/debate and decided that I was correct every morning when I looked in the mirror and saw this incredible dumb #### ,that I was on the correct path.
What's the Question?
Clay
I don't do a ton of painting, but I do more than I want to...
I think the best interior paint is Ben Moore. Maybe the really expensive premium paints are better still, but I've never used them so I don't know.
Another day, another tool.
The biggest hoax of all is that designer Ralph Lauren. I do love the colors however so I take a chip of the color I like and have my paint store mix it up for me with Benny Moore paint.
Be penny wise (in R.L's case dbl the price wise)
Namaste
andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
My experience is that Ben Moore is the most reliable. I recently realized how often I use BM because an Arch just requested a P&L color and I did not even know what the various lines of P&L were. Time for re-education. I know of a few pianting Co.'s who mostly use P&L. Seems to be a hot Designer spec these days.
RL colors rarely can be reproduced in BM or P&L because RL uses a clay base. This offers dif colors and properties that the BM base doesn't. I believe - and I am just beginning to get this info - P&L suede colors can best approximate the RL colors......maybe because they are using a clay base for that line. I dunno. So I don't get blasted - they all have a dif. pigment system which is intentional to limit cross over......duh!
Having said that.......
So far we are only addressing half the issue. The other half is the application of the paint. How are you going to apply it? Spray, roller, brush, or other method (decorative finish)?
The best rollers are Purdy rollers. I find their second use gives the best finish. Though the first has significantly less "roller hair residue" than other rollers, the second use has none. Also the paint splatters less, a lot less - type for type. BM has less spattering than any other brand I have ever used. What size nap depends on your skill and the wall texture. My experiance for a quality finish is to apply thin coats. Most paint colors require 2 coats. Some though require 3 and others 4. That's just the way it is.
As for brushes, again Purdy is one of the best. There is another brand out there that begins with a "T" (Tsongas?) but I can't recall it now - brain freeze. A quality brush makes a BIG dif. Reduces cutting in time and hand fatigue.
Schroeder's is an interesting paint, very thick. Just did my kitchen cabinets with it, time will tell. Expensive though, $75US for a Euro Gallon.bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
bobl
I've had thick paints that dont do any better and I wondered about that as another scam to make us think it is in fact better...like as in gravey...just add more starch.
Be warned
Namaste
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
May br right.
Choose Schroeder's based on paint comments on this site, one of which was the self leveling properties, although think that was made on their oil based. Since I wanted to use latex, went with their latex. A couple of painter's at that time swore by Schroeders.bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
The Schreuder Paint line is an excellent one. My restoration business does about 1/3 carpentry & related plaster repair and 2/3 paint.
The thickness of the final paint film is a critical specification for the Schreuder Hascolac oil paint. It does indeed level out to a mirror finish (looks like lacquer) but - you have to apply several
(four to six) very thin coats, sanding out brush marks between each with 300 or 400 grit paper. Anybody here doing this? You can't get the right gloss, or the levelling out with one thick coat. It will curtain something awful, and never dry.
Their acrylic paints are pretty good. I have used the oil-modified acrylic exterior paint in New England and also in Washington DC with a great deal of success. You have to prep it with the Schreuder oil primer first. The interior acrylics are not as spectacular as the oils, but they are definitely better than the Ben Moore top of the line.
Overall I would say that most jobs should call for the best paint you can buy. Cheap paint costs more in labor and call backs than putting on a good paint would the first time. Schreuder paints will cost between $800 and $2,500 for a whole house (interior). the same can be done in Ben Moore for $400-800, and would look almost as good.
The lifespan of the Schreuder is about four times over Ben Moore, and ten times over the cheap big-box paints.
Also: one last tip - don't ever use "ceiling paint" for any surface. The paint is formlated to be out of the way and never washed, so it is real cheap. That means you can't wipe off the electrician's fingerprints when he finishes installing those extra cans, and the
soot marks blowing out of the registers. A best quality wall paint will only cost an extra $10 per room and save many headaches.
This post to me shows I was right years ago. The contractors choose the paint ,customers dont.
Tim Mooney
$75 a gallon?????? Is that right? Yikes!"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
A Euro gal = 2.5 LITERS! Available only in white and goes for about $80US. Qts, actually liters go for $35US. If this floats your boat, knock yourself out. I have used it and the self-leveling property is not idiot proof. Hhmmm... The painter still plays a significant role.
Frankie
I've only heard of self leveling when you use oil so its new to me.
Have fun...still seems off the wall high priced for white...lol
Be a wall
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Valspar from Lowes is pretty darn good paint. I've painted every room in the house with it. It covers and cuts in well. No complaints here.
I use flat white on the ceilings, flat on the walls , and semi gloss on the doors and trim.Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
"Valspar from Lowes is pretty darn good paint."
Yes it is.
This has been going for as long as I understood english. Actually there are a lot fewer paint factories than there are paint labels. Glidden batches for Wal-Mart. There are also other labels that are made for some boxes. There is more difference with in the different lines of paint than there are the different labels. Be interesting to know who makes Valaspar because by its label alone would be pretty lean numbers for a plant of its own . At any rate the recipes are all close until the additives are built to distinguish that label.
Tim Mooney
Yep, there is a lot of private labeling going on, but I believe Valspar still makes their own paint. They also own McCloskey's and a coupla other brands.
Wal-mart has more than one company making their paint, depending on the region, last I heard it was SW and Valspar. It probably changes quite often.
Glidden/ICI was making Ralph Lauren and SW did Martha Stewart and K-mart.
And as you point out the paint the big companies make for their own stores isn't the same as the private label paint. Usually different pigment and binder specs and different additives.
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Barry E
My daughter's room was my guinea pig for using latex/acrylic for trim. I've seen enough corduroy trim jobs using the same that I was wondering if it could be done to look right.
Adding some FloeTrol, Flood's latex additive equivalent of their oil base additive Penetrol, made a huge difference. The paint dried dead flat, with nary a brush stroke. Wet edge time was greatly increased. 'Course, this means the inconvenience of longer drying time, but you'd get that w/ oil anyway, right?
BEMW
Been using Flo Trol for a decade or more and love that stuff so I agree
Be well
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The folks at the Plant tell me they can't comment and due to legal(?) Co. policy are not allowed to suggest or approve that ANY additive be added. They then told me that the paint doesn't have the flow/ leveling properties it used to or as much as they would like due to the current VOC ratios they must be within due to Fed Regulations. Appearantly the additives are a loop hole or just a way around the regulations.
I find the additives are indespenable due to weather conditions and type of materials. Can't do a decent long and tall eggshell enamel wall without it.
I won't use a latex semigloss or gloss on trim, ever. Even if I get it to flow well onto the trim, the brush still gums up. Alkyd paint with a Purdy brush is like painting w/ magic marker. You can't beat it. It's clean, fast and right.
Rollers work best in the second use - provided they did not dry between uses. After the third use they are history. Note: a) It takes too long to clean them well enough to use another day. After they dry out some dried paint somewhere will always leave a mark. It's cheaper to buy another roller sleeve. And b) do not use your hands to sqeeze them clean. Instaed use a 5 in 1 tool and then a "spinner". These tools should be standard tools in your paint box as well as a comb for your brushes. (Use the spinner for your brushes too.) Dip the roller full into a 5 gal bucket of H2O and then spin it out in another bucket. When the spinout "cleans" the paint off the side of the bucket, the roller is clean...enough.
Last thing....invest in a CANVAS drop cloth. If you only paint occasionally buy a 9 x 12 and a 4 x 12 cloth. If you use a good quality paint AND a Purdy roller you won't even need the full 4' of protection a 4 x 12 cloth offers for the floors along the walls. The 9 x 12 is used when painting the ceiling and for wall beginners. And get a few dif lengths of sticks for your rollers. NOT the ones that you can add too. I really mean dif sticks. I have a 2', a 4', a 6' and a 7'. I even have a few of the telescoping style but found them to be tooheavey to use all day long.
Oh yeah, beginners...try using a 9" roller and sleeve. They are a lot more managable. As for roller pans - metal is for oil, plastic is for latex. I rarely "clean" a pan. Instead I buy the liners - dif liners for dif pan designs. Speeds things up and I don't have to have a second pan to paint another color between wall coats. Just take the liner out of the pan (including paint and roller) and keep it covered. The liner below (still in the pan) is ready for my next color.
Ah yes, drop cloths. Do you use the plain canvas, or ones that are coated on one side ? I was advised to use the coated canvas cloth and put it coated side down - apparently one minor spill that doesn't make it to the carpet has paid for the cloth.
I also sprang for the venetian blind staves to put under the base while that's being painted and some double-sided tape to keep the drop cloth where you want it on hardwood and tile floors. Is this just because I'm an amateur at painting, or do the pros do this too ?.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I find the staves are more work. Learn to use a brush properly. It's so much faster.
I never use double sided tape because a) You should not be moving so fast to move the cloth and b) The tape may/ will take the floor finsh off. Blue tape - 3M - is indespensable. I will apply a 2" wide strip on the floor along the baseboard or shoe moulding. Sometimes this is along with red rosin paper. This way, the drop cloth does not have to be so close to the wall, I can move the DC while painting without worrying about the exact fit, the DC can be in use somewhere else while someone is painting the base, and it speeds up my clean-up when I am done.
The coated canvas cloths are used when laquering and when staining.. Then the material is so thin that it will go through a standard drop cloth. Anything that splills should be cleaned up immediately, anyway. USUALLY there is not enough time for it to soak through. If you are nervous about spills, us them.
Plastic sheets are not for use as floor drop cloths. They are for covering furniture, cabinetry, etc. Don't ever use it where you walk.
You people crack me up!
I'm surprised you don't all have your own TV show.
Working on it! We need a Tom Silva type guy but with a lot less smarts. Are you available?
ROTFLMAO!!! Glad I wasn't the only one who didn't appreciate useless commentary.
I generally use Benjamin Moore Aquavelvet (eggshell sheen). It has an acceptable level of toughness, hiding and low splatter. I trust it. (toughness meaning: how well does it scrub? If you rub it, does colour rub off? Does the sheen change?)
I have also used Para paints and found them to be at least as good as Ben Moore.
I supremely dislike Ben Moore Wall Satin (flat). It has very poor toughness and very high splatter. I had to wash my arm from hand to shoulder after using it, covered in splatter.
Recently I used Sico Supreme Cashmere (flat). I really liked the way it rolled on; very good hide, very low splatter, really seemed "thick". I am waiting to see how tough it remains, but if I have to paint flat, it'll be this paint or Para from now on.
I have used Ben Moore Kitchen & Bath several times recently (contains mildewcides). It seems like it'll be a good, lasting paint, but does splatter more than AquaVelvet. The sheen is higher, similar or even higher than BM AquaPearl.
For you newbies, the higher the sheen, the more the wall's flaws will show. Gee, I never noticed how crappy the mud job was on the drywall before I painted...
If I am in doubt about a wall surface, I will use Ben Moore Fresh Start primer, sometimes tinted to the final wall colour. I don't think it's as good as some will have you believe (around here, the paint shops claim it's so good it will cure the common cold {G}), but again, I trust it. In one particular case, though, I had to resort to Ben Moore oil primer. I have also used several of the Zinnser primers, all of which have been good to excellent. The low-odour, water clean-up oil primer particularly seemed like a useful product that I will use again.
I use Purdy brushes, a Wooster brush cleaner, a roller cover spinner, canvas drop cloths. I'll often use cheap brushes and throw them out if I use oil paint. I use my roller covers many more times than once, I clean them well. I do have a problem getting the brushes completely clean, anyone with suggestions?
The June 2001 issue of Consumer Reports tested flat and eggshell latex paints for toughness, hiding, and mildew. They also tested the manufacturer's various bases, as a Benjamin Moore AquaVelvet medium base is not the same as a Benjamin Moore AquaVelvet pastel or white base. Not everyone in this forum likes the way CR does their testing; in this case I think it was good.
For flat paints, CR liked, top 4 in order: Valspar (never used it, I don't have a Lowe's nearby), Pratt & Lambert Accolade, Pittsburgh Manor Hall, Sherwin Williams Everclean Interior. Sico Cashmere was 8th on the list, Behr was 12th, Ben Moore Wall Satin was 18th, and Olympic, Glidden, Dutch Boy were at the bottom.
For eggshell/velvet paints, CR liked, top 4 in order: Valspar, Sears Best Easy Living Satin (!), Behr Premium Plus Satin, Ace Royal Touch Satin. Ben Moore AquaVelvet was 7th (a very good score), Pratt & Lambert and Sherwin Williams were mid-pack, and Dutch Boy, Pittsburgh (!), Glidden, and Olympic were at or near bottom.
CR did not test Para. They're a Canadian company, but you can get their products in the U.S. As I said, they're at least as good as Benny Moore eggshell and far better in the flat.
My two cents, hope it helped,
Tim Ruttan
Blow me.
Fine, you added ####, you win.
You're so helpful and polite. How many people have you asked on this forum to perform that act on you? It seems to be becoming a habit.
If you think that I'm babbling, feel free to contradict. But please discuss specific points instead of trash talking.
Take care,
Tim
Edited 1/26/2003 10:16:27 PM ET by TRIMBUTCHER
You wanted to play. Maybe if you go back and correct your spelling I will waste my time trying to sort out what you think about painting.
Either way, don't lose any sleep, I was kidding with you.
I'm ok with the no smarts thing, but I am too shy for TV.
What, are you too busy? Being a moron never stopped you from saying anything.
Thanks, that's advice I can use..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I've heard upteen people, including yourself, recommend using a paint brush comb.
Yesterday I'm in a paint store decide I'm finally gonna get one. Couldn't find one, so I asked the clerk. He'd never heard of them, couldn't understand why you'd want one. Said in 10 yrs working there I was the first one to want one.
The store caters mainly to professional painters, and I was stunned, but couldn't find one either. Guess I'll just have to look elsewhere.
As far as rollers, I clean mine and get maybe 5 uses out of them, but you're right you need a roller or 5 in one tool and a spinner. I have a deep laundry sink and it's easy to do, but probably isn't worth the amount of time it takes.
Of course when I bought the spinner the clerk couldn't believe I'd actually want to spend $20 on it, though she was kind enough to help me find one. Amazingly, once found it was made in the USA which clinched the sale. That was at the orange store though, don't think she knew much beyond how to mix paint colors.
Good advice, thanks
Billy
I am seriously confused about how a "paint store" could not have any combs in stock. I guess they must sell more brushes than other paint stores, on average.
A spinner doesn't cost, it pays, like any good tool. In time saved and roller life extended, it's a wise investment.
But please, don't uyse your mop sink for cleaning paints. Use an old garbage can or a five/six gallon bucket. The solids in paint are hell on a septic system, even if it is the municipalities. .
Excellence is its own reward!
Hey piffin thanks for the response. I just finished reading the rest of this thread and was regretting posting. Figured I'd be jumped on as some _______ _______ HO who should keep his nose where it belongs.
Some of this makes the political threads look tame.
I was amazed. It's a Columbia paint store. I looked through all their tools and couldn't see one. The Ace Hardware store had them, but they've closed, and I never bought one. If I can get there before they close I'll see if the lumber yard has one, they carry a pretty good selection of painting stuff.
You're right on the paint cleanup. I assume you just let the paint dry in the bucket and toss it whenever it gets cruddy enough. I've been a bad boy.
I use a five gallon bucket for thinner cleanup and oil paints. I oput a lid on it for the voc containment and let it settle out. I clean up with the same thinner on top for first and second rinse, then splash new thinner on for finals.
I always have several large garbage cans on the job, lined with contractors bag liners. I spin into them. The sawdust and muck already there soaks up the water. If there is a lot of painting going on, I have one that I'm sure is water-tight strictly for brush rinse..
Excellence is its own reward!
Good ideas.
Maybe I'm just a dumb hick, but I only use latex paints. But then, I do hardly any exterior painting. My current house if brick. I did scrape prime and paint around all the door & window trim. Used a good latex based primer, covered by a good paint, both recommended to me by a paint store. It's held up well for 2 years, even in sunlight. I doubt the trim had been painted in the houses 25 year history. Hitting it with a pressure washer stripped everything down to bare wood. Painted a month or so later after I was sure everything had dried out totally.
Of course, this is the same paints store that didn't carry brush combs.
I'm slowly coming to like, or at least tolerate, painting. I hated it as a kid, but that was mainly due to the fumes of oil based and working with all the solvents that involves. I think I have alergies to some of this crud and simply avoid it if at all possible. If I had a wood house, I'd probably wear a respirator and do it with an oil based exterior, but fortuantely, that isn't a problem.
I enjoyed this discussion, and have picked up some interesting ideas.
The bedroom I just painted we used an edging roller made by Rubbermaid. Do any of you pros use special edging tools, or is that just for us folks with poor brush handling skills. Saved me a lot of time, and only requires some minor touch up w/ a small brush in a few areas where it didn't get quite to the edge.
has anyone mentioned "Duron" paint?
has anyone even heard of Duron?
goes like this.......
paint it on a monday and it looks so fine
DA du RON RON RON ....DA du RON RON
paint it with another and you'll hear your clients whine
DA du RON RON RON ... DA du RON RON
hey!!!!!!......... looks so fine...
hey....... my oh, my
hey.... looks so fine..
DA DU RON RON RON DA DURON RON..........
Funny thing is there really is a Duron
Paint
& Wallcovering company. I had seen them on a project we did out on Long
Island a while back and one of my guys saw the cans and sang something along
the lines of your lyrics. I thought he was actually being original and creative
when
in
reality
he
was probably just stealing your act!
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"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
A while back I used Duron's latex undercoater on drywall, something like a pva primer but with more body to smooth over the rough spots, nice stuff. I'd use it again if I needed it and if it was still available.
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
Edited 2/4/2003 8:24:26 PM ET by Mike S
Glad you enjoyed it.
Not everyone did.
I use a brush for my secrete weapon cutting in. I've tried all kinds of shields and tapes and it's all too much aggravation.
In a long thread a couple years ago, I cam eto the conclusion ( I think this was the general concensus) that you are best on exteriors using an oil primer and a latex finish. Reason is that the oil cures slower so it has more time to penetrate the wood for good grip-tion ( my little word for the day. the grip that makes for good adhesion). Then the latex for it's better qualities.
Our painter's here still prefer all oil for exteriors and I won't argue with them. It's their job and reputation. We get extreme weather.
I have latex on the ext. trim onmy house. Two coats and it still looks almost new after about six or seven years..
Excellence is its own reward!
Oh, wish I had the skill to cut in w/ a brush. Bought a nice Purdy brush and tried it painting white trim. Still got white lots of places I didn't want it. When we painted the walls next to the trim I didn't try to freehand.
Well, I enjoyed the discussion on painting. But there's some weird junk in this thread too. Not one I'd consider going back through.
Interesting you chose latex for your trim on your own house. I hope mine holds up well.
I have considered replaceing the wood around the garage doors with the vinyl/plastic boards. Do you have any opinions on these. Do they hold up well long term. My doors are on the Norths side of the house, so get very little sun.
Just curious on your opinion.
Yhanks
Billy
Edited 2/4/2003 12:45:27 PM ET by BILLYG83440
billy... i've been doing some of our own painting off and on for 30 years..but i'm not a painter..
i do hire some great pros though.. and one of the things they made me aware of is that you can't paint an unpaintable surface... what they meant by that was that you can't paint air... which is where a lot of people get in trouble trying to "edge" or "ct in"....
one of the secrets of getting a good edge is caulking all your joints.. then convering that caulk joint with the wall paint and cutting in with your trim paint.. in other words.. most people try to get the paints to meet which they can never do..
they will alos spend a lot of time trying to get the paint into the joint between the trim and the wall... which they can't do.... only caulk can do that..
so... your edging can get a lot easier if you caulk first..
use a modern siliconized acrylic ( water clean up) prime first,
caulk, wipe off ALL the excess caulk with a damp rag,
then paint
qtr.... and barry... write out the menu for painting a room... ceilings , walls & trim, i think a lot of the talk about "best paint" is lost if the sequence of painting isn't the right one to begin with
but hey, whadda i no ?
BTW.. i just found this thread and had to read all 128 posts to get here... kinda slow eveningMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, agree totally on the caulk thing. I caulked all but 1 or 2 seams which I missed. My wife thought I was nuts, but it looks good.
I just can't seem to go more then a foot or two w/o getting trim paint on the wall or wall paint on the trim.
Worked it out though. I use the trim tool, which gets most of it, and my wife comes back w/ one of her artist brushes and fills in the small gaps left by the trim tool. She paints for a hobby and has great brush control, but not great speed.
Sorry to but in....
I usually use a Purdy 2" for detail trim work, but on the recommendation of another painter friend, I tried a 2" "pencil" handle type Wooster. It worked great! Not a lot of speed, but tight to the other colour.At my age, my fingers & knees arrive at work an hour after I do.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
"qtr.... and barry... write out the menu for painting a room... ceilings , walls & trim, i think a lot of the talk about "best paint" is lost if the sequence of painting isn't the right one to begin with"
HaHa, I've seen full blown paint BB's go up in flames on that one? Seems to be as many way's as there are states.
Equipment?
New or repaint?
Almost everyone agrees that ceilings are first. .........almost..... Ha
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Barry E
new... equip. is secondary......c'mon..nothing ventured , nothing gained... besides it'll keep me outta the political threads, where i have sooooo much to offer...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
political threads, the horror.
No...not the political threads..........
I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, but
There are many variables here. You said menu for painting A room, thiis would be much different then a whole house or even 2 or 3 rooms.
New? Here equipment wouldn't be secondary because I would spray everything. Probably not much help to most people here. And even new work has many variables. Addition or whole house? painted or stained woodwork? colors or off whites? How much am I getting paid?? haha
But in general, if I was doing painting only, on a new house with mostly stained trim....
It would be primed before the trim carps started. Once we take over the project,
Sand & clean woodwork, sweep
Bleach, if needed, Stain woodwork conventional air spray
Seal, sand & putty sweep.... seal & sand, sweep
2 coats finish
mask off woodwork
If all one color, spray and backroll, 2 coats
One thing I do like to prepaint is balusters, when the handrail and newell post are stained.
Of course there are a lot of little details in between the steps. haha
As a general rule of thumb, flats on ceilings, low sheens on walls, and semi's on wood.
Am I way off your question? Is this the menu you want?
Repaints?...
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Barry E
Edited 2/4/2003 8:58:22 PM ET by Barry E
exactly.... but now, no stained woodwork... painted trim
Hmmm, now here repaints can really get convoluted.
New construction would be much the same, prep, prep, prep. and what am I getting paid?
Depending on the material, white or tinted lacquer, oil or waterbournes. I'm starting to trust ProClassic more for the woodwork. And there are some low budget alternatives that I won't mention
walls have been primed
sand, clean and remove hardware
prime, sprayed, sand, putty and caulk....prime coat and sand... vacuum
2 coats finish
here depending on material used, wall colors and cure time, mask woodwork, sand walls and spray as before.
or more likely, spray ceilings, sand walls and break out the brush and roller. Now here there's differences between the pan, grid or bucket. And of course the type of cover. HA
As a general rule of thumb, new or repaint, it's easier to cut walls into woodwork rather than woodwork into walls.
And never never ever let the trim carp or framer near the putty or caulking....never! <g>
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Barry E
perfect.. we use the same menu... but prefer to cut the trim into the walls....
whatta you do it the other way for ?
and we got some spackel in there someplace.... right after the pimer
Yeah spackle and all those other little details.
I've done it both ways, but prefer cutting wall into trim for speed. It's easier cutting a big wall area into the trim. More room to work. The trim is a smaller target with the 3/4" edge, then there are the stools and aprons
It's kinda like running base or crown. You want the joints running away from you when you enter the room, yes? In most cases looking at a door or window I would see wall color than trim color. hope that makes sense.
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Barry E
Barry was all over that, did you get what you want? I think he is somewhere in between Tim and me, but the details will keep you guessing for a bit.
Let me ask you one thing, how long after the trowel do you paint walls, and what paint system do you use?
You aren't the only one that has questions...
here's our current menu for new work ..
one week after skim coat plaster.. ( unless something is weird )
INTERIOR PAINTING MENU
Following recommended products:Benjamin Moore
primer, walls & ceilings Regal First Coat # 21600
primer, bare wood, old wood Fresh Start #024
finish ceilings #215 02
finish walls Aquavelvet (eggshell )
finish trim AquaGlo (Semi-gloss )
caulk DAP AlexPlus 35 year Acrylic Latex caulk plus silicone
spackle UGL 222Lite
patch joint compound (USG)
sandpaper 120
ALL ROOMS
1) Sweep & vacumn 2) Remove all hardware
3) Prime ceilings & walls & trim 4) Caulk all trim, patch & sand walls
5) mask baseboard heat, any finish work 6) Sweep & vacumn
7) finish paint ceilings, lapping onto wall
8) finish paint walls lapping onto trim, cutting in ceilings
9) finish paint trim, cutting in walls 10) clean glass & spills
STAINED & CLEAR FINISH WOODWORK
1) sand & fill 2) stain to suit
3) two coats sanding sealer, sand between coats
4) tack cloth to remove dust 5) two coats polyurethane
6) color putty defects , nail holesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Why putty holes as last step, instead of between sealer & finish?
View Image
Barry E
good question... mebbe i have to do things twice... putty after sealer.. and then putty everything i missed ....
or truth !... mebbe 4 times.... we always have time to do it one more timeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'll get back to you, ok?
I can get my head around all of this this weekend. Now isn't pretty.
Mike,
I don't understand why you patch the walls after priming. I patch, then prime. Am I missing something? (I mean about this subject!)
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 2/8/2003 12:06:22 AM ET by Rich Beckman
half the dings don't show up until i get the primer on.. so why do it twice ?
after the primer, they jump out at you like sore thumbs
You use First Coat on new plaster and not Fresh Start?! For plaster or compond walls we only use Fresh Start. If the wall is compound and will get a brushed gloss coat, we will use the alkyd underbody. Once that is sanded it's soooo smooooth.
I too always prime first prior to patching. After patching I either reprime or spot prime, whichever is easier.
Plaster walls never sanded. Ya can't. If you have to, then the plasterer F'ed-up.
Compound skimcoat sanded with #320. Usually the comp. skim is 3 coats. No sanding bewteen coats. Only scraping w/ knife - the best way I know of how to keep them sharp. I prefer skimming w/ a trowel - European. I also like USG's Lightweight Compound - but only if it is stirred using a n electric mixer/ paddle.
Old painted walls sanded with #120.
Sand between coats #320.
If the walls are Aqua Velvet, the trim is Satin Impervo.
If the walls are RWS we use Dulamel eggshell.
On old trim or old doors we almost always use Dulamel eggshell. It shows off the imperfections less than a semi or Satin finish.
Just my $.02.
good one... i'll print it out and put it in my painting binder..
yup on plaster.. nothing to sand.. knock off the big pieces. prime, look for the skips. spackle or patch , sand and spot prime or reprime..
spiff: sayin something but i can't tell what it is you wanna get to... help me out
Edited 2/8/2003 9:27:51 AM ET by Mike Smith
I am begining to wonder if I should bother with you. ;-) You are paying attention, right?
i always pay attention... i don't always comprende'
Yes, exterior alkyd primers tend to penetrate further into the surface, yet still retain some transmissiblity, and provide a bonding coat for the finish, providing you use the right primer. Whatever primer you apply should be applied to a properly prepared surface, lots of reasons, lots of details.
I won't say I don't love a real "oil" finish", because it is something to admire, but a latex finish will outlast it hands down. And this is from someone that has no latex on the exterior of his house.
Your guys stand behind "oil", I would offer that you only try an acrylic finish after a complete prep and prime, and I would stand behind that. I suspect you are getting alkyd finish, and you better keep your ducks in a row to keep that looking nice for a few years.
More power to your guys, they sound like old school, and they would have to be to make that work.
Very old school.
Oil is almost a religion out here. Maybe because of the boating background..
Excellence is its own reward!
Buy the proper wire brush and you don't need a brush comb. Maybe that explains why they are so hard to find.
I do remember seeing one many years ago...
http://www.finepaints.com/
I paid $75 for the "eurogallon".bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
everyone must not have read their book----you must thin schreuder paints at least 20%---i have been using it for 5 years now and hate paying for it but the finish is unlike ANY other paint i have ever seen-----i have a color chart with over 1000 colors and can get them in less than 1 hour-----however, you do NEED to be a pro to paint this product!!
The local paint gurus had convinced me to go with the Baker rollers (is there really a difference ?) and Purdy brushes. They also told me about using the same roller on the same walls for the two coats of paint; but, I never did get a good answer as to how many feet of wall (or gallons of paint, or number of usages, or hours, or cleanings, or what-ever the appropriate measurement is) you should get out of a roller. Do you have an opinion you could share on that ?.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
No matter what paint you use add an additive like floetrol (spelling?) - it reduces brush and roller marks. It's cheap and a no brainer!
Always, for years now. But here's a question, should you use Floetrol in primer ? I even wasted my time asking the local BM store (absolutely useless place to shop); but, I've received a number of conflicting answers, here're some:
1) Absolutely !
2) Absolutely not ! (this and # 1 came from the two clerks at BM who proceeded to argue about it while I was waiting to pay).
3) If you like (pro paint store)
4) Only for interior primer designed for satin/gloss paint (HD)
5) What's Floetrol ? (SW dealer) .
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Check out their website. http://www.floodaustralia.net/contents.htm They say you can add it to any water based paint and that it extends coverage as well as all the other good stuff. I dont know if I would add it to primer though. Ask them - it may change the surface characteristics and defeat some of the benefits of priming??
Mike
mike
Actually flotrol doesnt cost ANY more because youre extending the amount of paint. I "always" use it and love it.
Be extended <G>
Namaste
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Phil. phil, phil...
Here's the paint roller rules:
1. Buy quality, Purdy or better.
2. Before using, run a spiral of wide blue tape over the entire surface of the roller; then, tear it off! While on the roller frame. Fun. Observe on the sticky side of the tape the roller lint which you will not be leaving on the wall. Discard tape and residue.
3. Each color gets it's own roller cover. If you need to do multiple coats, knock the cover into a bucket of water and spin it before reuse. Cleaning a roller cover is a waste of time, and that includes lambswool covers.
4. When done with a color, discard the roller cover.
SkipJ
skip
concerning the blue tape on roller covers.
Nice idea but even still (just like I do on lambs wool floor pads) keep picking at the pad till you cant pick any more lint or lambs wool off. Makes a huge difference.
Baaaaah
Namaste
andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Skippie, Skippie, Skippie; as I said, I use the Baker covers: was your "Purdy" comment meant to imply that the Bakers are lower; or, was it meant to imply that the Purdy's are lower, but the acceptable starting point ?
I just run the big shop vacuum over the covers prior to use and haven't noticed any lint on the walls (?).
.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I had to use a Pratt and Lambert once to match pre-existing on an inset piece. It was a latex for trim. I hated it!!!!!
It dragged and wouldn't smooth out. It was like pushing it on with a trowel. Was this because of the clay pigment or because it was latex. I usually use BM Satin Impervo for interior trim and Aqua velvet for walls.
edit
I guess it's been answered with the Flotrol comments above
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 1/26/2003 7:03:39 PM ET by piffin
Hey Qtr,
Did I miss something or did someone put ground glass in your body powder this morning? You seem kind of itchy,.
Excellence is its own reward!
Oh, I was just bored. And this is supposed to be Fine Homebuilding, not what have I gotten away with.
Maybe if someone asked what is the "best" paint for what, I would stop clowning around.
Wanna know a secret? I don't have enough fingers to count all of "my" best paints. They all do something, and every job is different.
I guess I should appreciate that some try, but if they really care they can make it thru the other side of the dopeslap. As far as I am concerned, one of them has been offering far too much weirdness on this and other threads, and presenting it as fact.
Maybe I shouldn't be so blunt, but I was nice last week, right?
I thought you were nice enough with the first comment.
I learned some things in this thread but it did have that contrived sort of quality of a set up round table discussion amoung 'experts' so I thought you were just joking about that at first. Then the $h!t hit the fan and paint spatters got on more than the drop clothe.
Just glean what's worth having - what I learned really had nothing to do with the first post..
Excellence is its own reward!
80% was bs, pif, I just hit the wall because of the hero poster boy, (that couldn't find his arse with both hands).
Plus Newf dared me to tell someone to blow me again, ;-) Ironic I pick a Canuckian, eh?
I do feel bad about that, lol, Rotf...
I think you've pretty well outlined who the other three were that were non-contributors before you chimed in.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
There really is just one, and he has been talking babble from the word go.
Nuff is nuff.
I'll work on the being nice thing <rolls eyes>.
;-)
Canadian Bashing again, are we?
Bite Me!
...<g>...
[Now that should kill the thread!]
hehehehe
Oh yeah...paint...never touch the stuff. <VBG>
Carry on!Peace
Newf
An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind. Mohandas Gandhi
Now I get it. Painting is to you as fly fishing is to others. A purist's endevour.
It's gotta be tough reading what a bunch of diletants write. Harry Home Owner and Ronnie Renovator and Weekend Warrior Willie all just want to be one of the Guys. The thing is ... you do continue to read. Kinda like rubbernecking. Try to appreciate the spectator sport of it.
I'm not going to lie to you and write that it would be nice to hear your opinion too. I'll just leave it at there's nothing we can do when you decide to post. HAR! HAR! HAR!
And I don't care what Piffin writes about you when your away...... HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR! HAR!
Edit: Hey, I'm the 100th post! Do I win a prize?
Edited 1/31/2003 1:35:16 AM ET by Frankie
Pif
Just put QTMEG on your ignore list. You won't miss a thing. No more inane drivel and abuse. No more useless infoWe may be slow, But we're expensive.
i used ben moore .valspar. and devoe they are all good . i will not use anything else they are crap. try the devoe. thier primer is like paint it is excellent i am using it alot more . i think its better than ben moore
The best buy I ever got on drops was motel window drapes. 1.00 ea.
I use Dutch Boy on rentals paying 7.00 per gallon buying it in fives.
Not the best, but it is for the money.
Tim Mooney
Not good if BM doesn't cover like it used too.The titanium was used to replace lead,which provided the best color retention.the advantage I find with BM is they offer 5 different sheens from flat to high gloss,with corresponding durability.
Anyone ever use exterior paint indoors? Particularily in the bath? My bro's been working at the hardware store and more and more people are using exterior in the bath. Obviously the finish texture and the color have to be correct. It's about 2 bucks more a gallon but he swears by it.
Further tricks are the paint brush storage in a ziplock bag for next day use with the same color. Similar aproach was putting the brush/roller in the freezer for extended uncleaned storage.
I've used exterior latex for interior surfaces....most recently on block walls in the basement. (Close-out special on ext. white semi-gloss cheap! ). Makes sense in damp locations. Also, I usually use a skip trowell texture on drywall, so I'm not concerned w/ a flawless paint job... If it's white-white and semi-gloss, I'm OK w/ it.
What is skip-trowell? Is that rough texture drywall finishing?Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Skip-trowel--use a cement trowel to apply unthinned drywall mud. Object is to leave cut marks...see it used a lot in the southwest . It's not "rough" to the touch, but I guess you would classify it as a "rough texture". You've almost certainly seen it but didn't know the technical name for it--I used it for years before I knew what to call it!
http://www.patchmaster.net/styles.htm
I used to regularly use exterior oil primer for interior because I can keep only one kind in the truck that way for all the occasional backpriming and prep I do when the painter isn't there.
The painter I am currently using asked me not to do that for interior work anymore and explained why. I already knew that the ext left a sslightly more furry surface that needed sanding but we all resand trim to 180 or 220 anyway. But he also told me that exterior primer is formulated to cure more slowly and never hardens as much as interior paint does. Exterior is to resist weather - moisture and UV. Interior needs to look good and to resiste friction - wear and tear from contact with people, fabric, and things. So it needs to be harder. He also mentioned that with softer ext. primer used interior it takes more sandpaper to sand it because of it gumming up more quickly..
Excellence is its own reward!
Just curious how much a gallon of Valspar's top line runs.
Well that figures it would take longer to cure. The sanding makes sense. Most interior surfaces I'd agree with the analysis that this is not the professional edge and smoothness for a good look.
My bugaboo is the bathroom. Having teens and the recurring sauna like atmosphere in the bathroom I am interested in perminent solutions to the crack and peal nature of bathroom paint. The fan helps but the shower area is the biggest rub.
I figure the bath is a candidate for the exterior paint. This may be a live and learn experience but I've done everything else right and it seems to be necessary to give exterior paint a whirl.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
I tried some Zinsser Perma-White Mildew-Proof paint in our main bathroom. It says "self-priming", but I put it on in one coat (medium gray) over a gloss primer and it's held up fine for 6 years. It says that it's water-based; but, no-where on the can does it say "latex" ? But I have to say that we're not impressed with the finish: it's supposed to be semi-gloss; but, it has no life at all and the leveling could have been better.
What's better these days ?.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
My issue is the high humidity on exterior walls (Wisconsin cold) tends to start up an alligatoring peel thing even with Oil enamel. I switched last go round to Latex and even that is showing signs of bad behavior.
Without turning on the exhaust fan full time there seems to be no real easy solution.
Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
It gets cold here too. A good gloss primer and latex paint seems to be the right combination. I was told there's something called "EB" which can improve the bond to the walls too, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet (I have a line on a store that carries it)..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Booch...have you used a "Kitchen & Bath" latex enamel? I live in Wisconsin, too, have teens and the bathroom is on an exterior wall, but no paint problems. I used Dutch Boy Semi-Gloss Kitchen & Bath enamel in there about 4 years ago & it still looks great. (I'm NOT reccommending Dutch Boy because it doesn't cover worth a HOOT, requires multiple coats, and seems "soft"). Have heard good things about Hallman-Lindsey paint--this is a regional paint company w/ around 23 stores in WI. Also, you may have some bonding issues if you've applied latex over oil...
No there is no bonding issue with the latex over oil. it is purely the humidity that eats it up. takes the oil paintup with it .
Now I might have higher standards in that the last time I painted it was 8 yrs ago or better. I've painted every room in this house 3 times(over 20 yrs). I'm getting tired of the tour.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Sometimes we try to hard to get to much out of to little. It is apparent that the best coating for the aplication we are trying to accomplish is a non permiable ceramic finish- ahhhhhh tile.
Clay
I don't know how many products this occurs in, but I have experienced a difference in quality (gauge of mtl) in a variety of products, inc but not limited to bathroom fixtures from "Franklin Brass". Looks the same, but a lot "chinsier". Try pricing (or weighing) a plumbing fixture or faucet from a plumbing supply house, and then HD. You will probably notice a difference. Big retailers have a lot of clout with manufacturers. They will stipulate what they will pay for a given item, and the company will try to manufacture it within that price range. They also push for exclusivety. Try buying a Weber gas grill any place other than HD with a cast iron grill surface. You can only get Stainless, or enameled elsewhere (except from Weber).
Well---if you want to believe Consumer Reports. (I do). Valspar paint (Lowes I think) was rated the best.
I like Porter Pro Flat for cost and touch up. I used S.W. on a couple of houses and could not touch it up even though it was a light color.
I read a review of paints 2 or 3 years ago in Fine Homebuilding that rated Wal-Mart paint very highly...right up there with the major brands costing 2 or 3 times as much. I tend to put a lot of trust in F H B. What about you? Since reading that, I have used many 5 gallon buckets of it on interior & exterior with what still seems to be very good results. I am not a paint contractor, but am a renovation contractor. I can't tell you when the article was printed, but I am going to try to find it.