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Can someone help me with an obvious question?
In my past two homes I have installed many linear feet of trim, including base board, quarter-round, casing, crown, etc., most of which is painted high-gloss white.
Most often I am installing trim that has been painted prior to nailing. To putty the nail holes I have used DAP’s painters’ putty, glazing compound, a very dry white putty, and even (gasp) caulk.
Several of these compounds have bled through the white paint and now have an ugly yellow appearance. The DAP painters’ putty (red can) yellowed through the paint in less than four months. It looks dreadful!
Can someone help me with some good advice on filling nail holes on bright white trim?
I’m using 15 gauge and 18 gauge nailers, if that gives some idea of the dimensions of the openings to be filled.
I suspect that some will advise that I use wood glue and sawdust, but I’d like to find an off the shelf solution if possible.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Keith
Replies
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Keith,
I did a renovation last winter for a client who wanted to do their own painting. They wanted to paint the walls before I installed the tirm, which they would prime and paint before hand. They were not happy with the end results. If you want professional results, hire a professional or at least do it in a professional manner. The painter comes in after the carpenter is done. Even if the trim is pre-primed, It should be caulked, nail holes filled and lightly sanded and painted after it's nailed in place. Yes it is harder than painting everything on saw horses and expecting the carpenter to leave no evidence of installation. I went back and caulked ,filled nail hole with lite spackle, and put a quick coat of paint that basicly hid the splices and spackling. I just finished an addition for them and they want to paint. Here we go again.
*Jake & Keith:Been there with the prepainting and then the "you messed my paint job all up with that nailgun of yours..."If you want to prepaint, just prime, install molding, putty, reprime, caulk and then paint.Search the BT archives for "putty nail hole" or similar - this has already been discussed.
*i've had problems also with caulk for bright white paint. my best results have come from using a fast drying filler, such as DAP's Fast and Final. It dries quickly enough so you can work your way around the room, and by the time you're done you can start light sanding. Makes a nice flush covering for nail holes, and is bright white when dry so no chance for bleed through. For seams, a good quality siliconized acrylic latex caulk wiped with a damp rag works for me. Wiping keeps the caulk in the seam, not on surface. Hope this helps. Rich.
*I've seen good results with DAP window glazing compound for nail holes. Applied 2 yrs ago and still no bleed through or yellowing.
*Mad Dog Are you applying it after primer or on paint
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My painter has always used the " old style" glazing compound. By pressing it in with his thumb and wiping it in one motion he finishes the job quickly and efficiently. All of the paint in my house is painted with white latex paint and there are no signs of bleed through. Just one last thought, are you using a high quality paint like Benjamin Moore or garbage paint like Behr
*Do any of these answers change if the material nailed is the plywood grooved to simplate bead-board? Most of the nails are in the grooves, where it'd be hard to use a putty knife, thumb, or sandpaper.
*Hmm...now that you mention it--it was Behr paint. If I can't locate a professional nail-hole filler ;) I'll try Moore and one of the DAP glazing or Fast and Final products.
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Keith
Using a quality paint falls under the " if you want a professional job, hire a professional or at least do it in a professional manner." I don't know of too many painters that prefer to use "brand X" over Benjamim Moore or Sherwin Williams. They want to get in and finish the job, not fight the paint. A lot of DIY'ers see the difference in price and see savings not more work.
*I maybe dead wrong here, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am.My understanding is that glazing compound is linseed oil based. Becasue of this, you either have to wait unitl it has dried out(time proportional to depth of fill), or cover it with a suitable oil based primer to prevent bleed though. Am I way off base here?
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I use the Elmer's latex wood filler in nail holes on flat surfaces. The color is woodtone. It sands smooth and doesn't bleed through Behr paint. If bleedthrough is plaguing you, go after the spots with a can of spray Kilz and a cardboard spray mask.
Bill
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I'm actually a little taken back by this comment about Behr paint. I've had no training as a painter, but I've used a lot of paint along the way: Benjamin Moore, Sears Best (goodness knows who actually makes it), CIL, S-W, ... you know the list, oil and various version of latex: I started using Behr acrylic latex while doing over my own home and it's the best paint I've ever used.
Maybe that's only because all the paint improves every year and the Behr is the last, or that I'm a poor amateur painter; but, the stuff really works well for me. Course, I did learn that the real key to what separates good paint jobs from poor ones was the quality of the brushes and the rollers - nothing but Purdy's and Baker now;
Back to the filler, on painted trim I'm using LePage's exterior wood filler (it's okay I guess - like to find something better)for holes and joints, on natural wood, I wait until it's varnished/lacquered and then use either a wax filler or a lacquer stick. Someone told me to try Blehlen water-based putty (??).
For the gap between the trim and the wall I was using LePage's GapSeal; however, it seems to have disappeared from shelves everywhere, so I'm going to try Dap Alex Plus - anyone know it ?
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I think Messi is right, We use Glazing compound outside (it's firm for about 50 years) but we double-prime with oil and with so many knots these days, yellow from putty is the least of it.
Inside, I've used Durham's RockHard on client request. You mix the consistancy and it's stable, but if the painters here have a favorite, I'd do what they do. RockHard is overkill for most cases.
*Keith, what you want to use to fill those holes is a light spackle. The best I have found is made by Murelo, the next best is Sherwin Williams brand light spackle. I will say that I have always hated Dap's version. You can apply it by putty knife or by hand, or most likely a combination. It doesn't shrink like regular spackle and it easy to sand. I would go with the putty knife to fill those holes in the ply Jim K, but you wouldn't want to let spackle dry in those fuzzy grooves. Wiping it in with a wet rag might be the best method for that case.You don't want to use glazing compond under latex paint. As Messi says it is an oil based product, and it will yellow over time if not sealed with an alkyd-based undercoater. If you prime the wood after it is installed glazing compound works out great for simply filling nail holes, but then you are priming over it with an alkyd-based undercoater, right? Latex primers are not an option for me.Just to put my 2 cents worth into the quality paint thing, there is a difference. If you don't know what it is then buy the best quality paint that is proper for the job you want to do. If you don't know what the right type of paint is then you have to depend on the person you will ask for advice. The folks at the local Ben Moore and Sherwin Williams dealers tend to know what they are talking about, and it is possible for you to find everything you will ever need from them. Err Michael G., are you spot-priming those knots with Bin or a white shellac? Bad knots take two coats, but your siding only needs one coat of oil primer. What do you do, pre-prime and then completely prime the house after installation?
*Try Crawford's putty. it is just a fairly dry putty, used out uf the can. Never been to a paint store that doesn't have it.
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I haven't had very good luck with Kilz, spray can or brushed on. Used a gallon of it to seal--several coats--some door jambs and casing that has been stained years before and still bled through white latex. Finally brushed on one coat of oil-based primer and stopped the bleed-through.
Has anyone else had this prob with Kilz? I thought maybe the alcohol base(it is alcohol, isn't it?)reacted with the stain to bring it up? Would shellac have been any better?
*Splintergroupie, I always thought Kilz had a shellac base, which is why it should hide stains. Although their water base primer must be different. But hey, I'm not a painter.
*My experience is to never ever use BIN for other than sealing smoke smell into framing after a fire..BIN has always peeled on me...always...knots...water stained drywall...knots...did I say knots?No BIN, near the stream,ajand yes it matters if you are inside or outside and if you are overpriming in oil or latex...
*Actually, Zinsser's B-I-N spray sealer is pigmented shellac, but spray Kilz is not. It is some sort of an alkyd carried in hot solvents like acetone and butane that flash off really fast. I use both, but the Kilz is, in my experience, more versatile. Be aware that the Kilz name can now be found on several very different formulations of stain-blocking primer. I have only found the old original toxic good stuff in the spray cans:-).Bill
*Yep Bill, BIN is a pigmented shellac. The only thing I have found to seal knots is BIN or shellac. Sorry about the peeling prob AJ by the stream, but BIN is very moisture sensitive and the surface must by dry. It it also very bad voodoo to use it as a primer on exterior work (same story for Kilz), any moisture coming thru will wreck your life, spot-prime only outside. One little fact about shellac some of you "younger" fellows might not know is that it has a shelflife of about a year, it will not harden so throw it away.Bill is also right about Kilz being a high flash alkyd ("oil") primer,(the vehicle is naptha though), but Kilz will not seal knots, and there is no reason I can think of to use it outside. I am not a big fan of the spraycan method of sealing knots, you really need to work the paint into those buggers, the worst ones will need two coats for any hope of success.And finally, , I tried Bin's latex primer once and noticed that it was supposed to stick to anything. Tile, glass, bathroom fixtures and even a speeding locomotive. Well then could someone tell me why it didn't stick to the side of the paint can? Too funny, I guess you can't believe everything you read. Oh well, seeing as I had to put my painters hat on for this one, I need to go get a beer, later.
*Qtrmeg and everyone- like Z-Prime over BIN for exterior applications? I use a lot of redwood- always back and end prime with oil based primer (stops those tannins). I've liked Z-Prime but gosh it's expensive!Thanks
*Qtrmeg...The one time I used BIN outside was spot priming knots in spruce siding....every spot prime peeled after two to three years....Now I successfully use SW Alkyd primer and I do not try to hide knots...If you have me install knots...you're gonna like looking at them. That's why I now like fibercement for the "no knot" look...Not faux knotting fibercement either!...near the stream,aj
*Karen, Z-Prime? I have never heard or it. AJ, if that spruce siding looks anything like the pine siding I see being used around here I wouldn't bother sealing the knots either. Anyhow, I can't tell you why the BIN peeled off, but I have seen it happen a couple of times. The knots are very hard and the sealer dries very fast, not a situation where you could expect a lot of bonding under perfect conditions.
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I am refinishing the wood floors (oak, maple) in my 1926 house. After pulling out several hundred nails that have been pounded in by someone years ago, I am looking for advice about a good wood filler to use for filling the nail holes. If it's something that I can buy in caulking-gun tubes, so much the better: it will help inject it into the holes.
I'm going to have the floors sanded then finished with water-based polyurethane. The maple floors will be natural, the oak ones might get a light stain.
Bruce Allen
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Use regular wood putty, the flamable kind, before sanding. Use colors close to the color stain you plan on using an the nail holes will all but disapear. Don't fill the gaps between the flooring cause it'll pop out with expansion and contraction.
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BONDO or other auto body fillers.It's harder to sand than most fillers but it stays put and dosn't bleed through.
*I always use car BONDO myself. Nothing works better
*Bondo. Yes. Exterior, I doubt if there's anything better. But, damn, it's stinky nasty stuff for a carpenter to get his hands into. Interior paint-grade, this sometime finishesqe Impulse-slinger has been fine with that painter's standby, Red Devil's One Time. Keep the blade on your putty-knife clean and it goes on fine, never needs ironing.B.I.N. no? I've been using it since a rather brilliant Chapel Hill woodworker named Andy Long recommended it over Kilz; seems to do what I need it to. Just went through a couple gallons to prime a big buncha shutters I made (each component individually primed, naturalement)...if it don't work, I'm gonna be a trifle fierce, and out a passel of timemoney...Soooo...ten-four, ya'll! Joel K., Chapel Hill, N.C.
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We use auto-body filler, two components. Mix it on a scrap of wood, with a smaller scrap of wood.
Only for the next five minutes of holes.
Usually the hardener is red, which makes the filler pink.
A piece of pliable plastic is used for application.
Auto-body filler is great for holes but it does crack under load-seams and long joints have to be caulked.
The sanding is done with a small oscillating-rotating sander by Festo- dust collecting system with simultaneous switching of the Festo vacuum.
I have had callbacks when the painters used acrylic mastic which sags and smears.
The yellowing occurred only where no paint covered the caulk. Since caulk moves more than paint can it (the paint)chips off easily, getting yellow and becoming a dirt magnet.
We sometimes wonder what the guys did in times without caulk, construction glues, silicone... Probably had more time and/or skills.
*True about the past...Go to the NYC Library upstairs and look at the massive wood trim...and try to find the nails and other filled areas....You won't see joints or fillers...near the stream,aj
*Bondo to fill nail holes? Yes let me write that one down, I don't have enough to do. I guess I don't know the difference between practical and fantasy.
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Can someone help me with an obvious question?
In my past two homes I have installed many linear feet of trim, including base board, quarter-round, casing, crown, etc., most of which is painted high-gloss white.
Most often I am installing trim that has been painted prior to nailing. To putty the nail holes I have used DAP's painters' putty, glazing compound, a very dry white putty, and even (gasp) caulk.
Several of these compounds have bled through the white paint and now have an ugly yellow appearance. The DAP painters' putty (red can) yellowed through the paint in less than four months. It looks dreadful!
Can someone help me with some good advice on filling nail holes on bright white trim?
I'm using 15 gauge and 18 gauge nailers, if that gives some idea of the dimensions of the openings to be filled.
I suspect that some will advise that I use wood glue and sawdust, but I'd like to find an off the shelf solution if possible.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Keith