This is a rant so get ready…
What is the Code on xxxx? How often do we see these questions? And nearly as often these people don’t state their location. What? Do they think there is a universal building code that reaches out as far as the internet does? OK – we can caulk that up to inexperience. But some of these people are professionals…
Then, we get some other people who seem to think their county/town/whatever has it’s own building codes, which I won’t say isn’t true in some places but is quite unusual, and is normally in areas with lots of population and $$$ like maybe Dade county or LA. They think they, in a town of 10,000, are under an entirely different set of codes than the next town over (in the same state).
Just for everyone’s info, in most US states (not sure about Canada, etc) there is a statewide building code which is normally based on a model code with or without modifications. Often towns, counties or other add some of their own codes, but generally, until towns have more authority than state governments, state wide codes will still be the basis of whatever code is enforced. A model building code is like CABO, IRC, SBC, etc. A lot of the variance between towns, etc, within a state has to do with interpretation of the code, level of enforcement, or maybe there is no local enforcement. In my state, which I’m gonna guess isn’t too unusual, code enforcement districts can add to the statewide code but cannot (officially) subtract from it.
Here is what really bothers me though…. What about these guys who call themselves professional carpenters, builders, etc but don’t own a building code book? Most any one of these guys probably own a saw blade, or least a saw that costs as much as a code book. Their information comes from what the inspector told their brother in law’s nephew. Let’s get real…. A code book is a tool just like anything else. Would a carpenter show up on the job without a pencil? OK – don’t answer that… 🙂
OK – so for generalists builders there are plumbing codes, electrical codes, etc, etc. That’s a lot of books… I guess the assumption would be that he would either be hiring professional plumbers/electricians/etc to do that stuff, doing very little of that type of work, or own those books too.
Anyway, sorry, but I have trouble respecting people (in a professional sense) who call themselves professional carpenters, builders, whatever and don’t own a building code book. Granted I’m not ignorant to the fact that most carpenters and some builders don’t own a code book but what does that say about… OK – never mind, you get my point…
OK – so maybe someone who specializes in stairs, for example, doesn’t need a code book because they got it all in their head – they get a pass… 🙂 but anyone who is a generalist… You guys know who you are…
thoughts???
Replies
I'll bite!
First, there are many rural locations around the country, perhaps a third of the land mass geographically, that do not have any building code required or enforced. So those of us who grew up and have worked most of our lives in such locations have never had the need to follow those governances.
That does not mean do away with them, only means that we don't know the details. I work hard to know how to best do a thing and to build it right. I do think that some of the places I worked in the past now do have codes enforcement, but after living where I do now for twenty years, we still do not.
So I think your generalization that some sort of code covers in every location is an oversimplifiction of the facts.
Second, unless I misunderstand you, it is possible for a local AHJ to have rules more strict than the state.
We here are more governed by land use ordinance and plumbing codes than by building codes.
The state issues a model LUO and then says to every township - you must enforce this at minimum or we will do it for you. So our community adopted that LUO with modifications that are stricter in some instances, but never less strict.
For governing structural integrity as most building codes do, our state simply says that each community with a population of more than 2500 people must adopt and enforce one of the nationally recognized building codes.
What puts us in a funny grey area there is that we have a census pop of less than a thousand - because we have a lot of summer residents who are not counted here, and others who might actually live here for more than six months of the year, but who own a residence in Florida to avoid maines high income tax. So we may have a summer population of 4000 people that approaches 6000 on july fourth yet we have no building codes adopted or enforced.
Yet with all that, there is a high local standard to measure up to and the quality of work and design here is far above many other places I have worked and have traveled and observed where minimum codes are enforced.
none of this to be argumentative, but to help you understand why maybe some background behind those who ask about codes. They may be trying to do what is right but have no basis for knowing.
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I'm not disputing anything anyone said (for the most part). I will say that some of the comments seemed to repeat what I said in the first post. Also, I think that it kinda goes with out saying that anyone who lives in a state without building codes doesn't need a code book... On the other hand, anyone who lives in a state, providence, or whatever that has adopted a code, should know that code even if it is not enforced locally.
Question: If someone is building in a state (for example) that has adopted a statewide code but in a locale that has no code enforcement, is he legally responsible to build to that code?
This link shows a US map with all the states and it appears that 11 states have no residential building codes although I'm not sure how up to date some of the info is since, for example, I think I read somewhere that Hawaii now has a building code. I did look at TX, MO and ME, to name a few and found varying results as compared to what previous posters said about their states. Here is another US map that might even be better...
I think anyone in the US who has any interest in codes might want to go to one of the maps and click on their state.
anyone in the US who has any interest in codes might want to go to one of the maps and click on their state
The tough part is finding out more than the map shows. The first link correctly show that the Texas Legislature permits, by law, local communities to adopt IRC & IBC if they so desire (my Vernon's search is not complete yet, but it looks like a person can read it that munis may now adopt IBC/IRC or nothing; the old mish-mash of SBC, UBC, etc., out the window, baby, bathwater, and all).
The second link also correctly shows that Texas has adopted the Energy Code statewide (thus, the green shading). But, a state almost has to do that, or give up USDoE funds (or, that's my inderstanding of it).
As a matter of practice, you simply have to check each and every AHJ for what they are claiming to abide by at the time, and there's not too much a body can do otherwise. Edinburg uses 1999 IBC, 2000 IEC, 2002 IRC; Houston uses mostly 2002 codes; Austin does it's own thing--having the Municode link in one's Favorites/Bookmarks is almost indispensible. To wit: http://www.municode.com/resources/code_list.asp?stateID=43Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
All: Now I'm gonna answer a few of the individual posts...
Piffin:
>> So I think your generalization that some sort of code covers in every location is an oversimplifiction of the facts. << I don't think I said every location.
>>Second, unless I misunderstand you, it is possible for a local AHJ to have rules more strict than the state. << I thought I said that - maybe I wasn't clear.
>> For governing structural integrity as most building codes do, our state simply says that each community with a population of more than 2500 people must adopt and enforce one of the nationally recognized building codes. << try clicking on ME on those maps.
I did and I can tell you for a fact that they are wrong for Maine
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I don't know anything specific about Maine, but a quick Google brought up this web page Notice who owns it. ie: look at the first part of the URL (address)
Just like I said! Only towns above a certain population need to enforce it. Outside of a handfull of cities here, there is no enforced building code. are you trying to tell me it isn't so? Are you telling me that my town and the several all around me have a building code that they enforce?if so you are dead wrong!The only thing that has apparantly changed since the newest law went into effect in 2004 is that the population level for enforcement is now 2000 instead of 2500, and they have now specified the IRC instead of leaving an open option.But the basic fact is still the same - there is no statewide enforcement of any building code. There is only a state that requires the larger towns and cities to have the IRC. You can keep telling me all night long that Maine has a statewide building code and it still won't be true.
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First, I didn't make any specific statements about ME, I just said to check the links I posted.
Other than that, I think we might be just getting into semantics here.
The way I read the stuff I posted links to is that there is a ME statewide residential code but it is optional for small towns as to weather they want to adopt and enforce it.
I don't thing I ever used the term "statewide enforcement". Heck... I doubt that any state has statewide enforcement even if they do have a state code.
Aren't we saying the same thing?
"Aren't we saying the same thing?"Maybe, but it was getting hard to tell!;)
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For the sake of conversation...
Since there is no requirement for a municipality <2k to have a building inspector, does everyone building in that jurisdiction still have a responsibility to meet or exceed the state code?
To me the answer has always been YES even though it's not being inspected I think there still are legal requirements/obligations of the contractor/individual/HO to meet or exceed code. But not all follow that rule. There was an area here in GA that I used to do a lot of work that didn't have a building inspector so everyone thought it was the wild west & some structures were fine examples.* They didn't like it when I told them there was still a state code and they had an obligation to meet it. Lot's of customers complained that it cost them more to build to "my" levels. I didn't get a lot of jobs following this attitude (no big loss), but I think it also moved me to the top of the list for others.
*One such structure on a popular lake (don't know why, pretty unimpressive) I couldn't figure out for the life of me what it was or how they came to a shape as such. That was until it burned and I could then clearly see the frame of a tear drop trailer that was the basis of the 1st floor, had a 2nd floor built above it, with additional wings built on. Something tells me it didn't meet structural code.
I would answer that "yes", but there is no way of enforcing it other than morally. I believe I meet or exceed code in all my work. IN other words, I know of a couple so-called builders who do some shabby stuff here. If something they built failed, I think they could be found guilty of negligence, and that is when and how the enforcement would happen, when it is too late because somebody has already been hurt or damaged financially. Fortunately, most people know about them and avoid them so the only ones who end up with their shabby work tend to be the kind of customer who deserve what they get, if you know what I mean.There is some strict standards on electrical and plumbing here, but no inspections by govmt officials. The way it works is that there must be a master electrician or a master plumber supervising the job and inspecting his own work. If he lets things slide and somebody gets hurt or a claim has to be filed against him, he loses his license, I suppose in some similar fashion to a licensed Doctor and his practice. Nobody inspects his work for the most part, but he can lose the license to practice.
So my sparkie and my turd-herders regularly tell me, "Nope, can't do that anymore under the new codes."A couple years ago, A lady asked me to install her brand spanking new wood stove. She knew that I had once owned a wood stove store and had installed hundreds of them. So I go by and take some measurements and make some suggestions, but everything was wrong in her eyes. She wanted it too close to the wall, wrong kind of pipe, bad location through roof, etc, etc, etc!
I quoted her a price ( too much, of course in her eyes) to do it right and speced how that would be. She ended up doing it all herself with her boyfriend. I don't know what here insurance company thinks of it. Since this is an island, they probably never saw it. Too bad!Railings is one issue where we run into this where I don't always hit code. We have a lot of balconies - some with railings only 21" to 30" high so they can enjoy the views. That is half the reason they buy the property. Legally they can be considered grandfathered when replacing, but I make them as high as I can get away with. Considering age and intelligence level or lifestyle of some of the inhabitants means there are places i refuse the job or to do it less than 36" high. There have been stories of a couple places where they were refused HO insurance due to railing height, or had to buy a special rider upgrade.One place, right after I moved here and was working at wages for another outfit, we built a deck around a half buried pool. A couple of sides were too high off th e ground and I told the owner we needed top figure out what kind of fence or railing to put there.
I got cussed out more or less for suggesting that I spoil his view and he refused to allow a railing of any kind claiming there would never be a problem.A week or ten days later, he had a party to wet the bush and all his friends over to swill around the pool. One guy got stupid on "adult beverage" and fell off the edge and broke a leg. I always keep that in the back of my mind when I am convincing my customers how a thing needs to be done.
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there is no statewide enforcement of any building code.There is only a state that requires the larger towns and cities to have the IRC
As I understand it, no city or town of any size is required to have any code at all, but if it hadn't adopted one and after 2004 wanted to adopt one, it was/is required to use the IRC. If population exceeds 2000, the community must have a code enforcement officer, who presumably makes sure that the plumbing and electrical codes are complied with and, if there is no building code, can't enforce any standards for anything else.
My little town of 600 has a CEO and no code. When I did my addition last year the only thing he looked at or cared about was the plumbing drain/waste/venting. 1x2 #27 common balsa wood floor joists 10 feet on center, fastened with duct tape and covered with heavy duty Reynolds Wrap subfloor? No problem.
Somewhere between no code at all and New York City there must be a happy medium that protects clueless homeowners from getting an unsafe or insanely inefficient home.
Edited 6/20/2007 1:12 pm ET by smslaw
Edited 6/20/2007 1:12 pm ET by smslaw
There is something fair and in-between.Called the code of caveat emptorot was it hammurabii....;)
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Piffin, Ah yes.. Hammurabi.
In his code if a builder built a building that collapsed and killed/injured the occupants the builder was sentenced to be walled up in a closed off building until the builder died. Makes our codes look downright easy ."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
When I first came to BT, I had no idea that codes (and everything else) and such vary a great deal from one place to another. So when new folks ask about codes, it could be that they're in the same boat.
As Piffin mentioned, some areas don't have building departments or enforce codes. For instance - There are no codes in most of the counties around where I live.
Technically, I think Illinois is under the IBC. But since the codes aren't enforced, why go to the trouble of getting a copy of them? I've never even seen a copy of the IBC.
Remember that people come here because they DON'T know stuff - Not because they DO. So cut 'em a little slack.
Im MO is it worse. There are not even any state "recommendations" of codes and many of the smaller places don't have any.So each city has adopted different codes and versions.And even some of the bigger/old areas are similar.I believe that PA just adopted state codes. And NY does not have a state electrical code, if I understand it correctly..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Yes - looking at the maps, it looks like MO is pretty much exempt from this conversation.
BTW: I think PA got statewide residential code at least 5 years ago.
wow, bill, i'm impressed that you knew that we adopted a statewide uniform code here in PA ! most pennsylvanians didn't even know that.
until they try to build or add on to something now.
it's a lot more complicated and more expensive.
and getting a permit can sometimes take weeks where it had taken 10 minutes.
in the long run it will benefit the rural areas the most where codes were non-existent.
5 years ago i did a $ 1.3 million commercial fire restoration to a church and was told by the local borough that there were no inspections and i should just build it according to the blueprints ! that would never happen again now.
the inspections for most smaller municipalities are sub-contracted out to third party inspectors
yes, our firm owns a code book.
several of them actually.
carpenter in transition
Yep - looks like IL has no statewide code, but it looks like there is a lot of local enforcement. So, again I guess I'm saying that for those people who do build in areas were codes are adopted, they should have their ducks in a row.
And yes, I'm all about learning... and I ask some dumb Q's here too... and I'm not attacking anyone, but again I think a professional builder should at least know what is in effect (if anything) in his area. It's not that hard to find out. I'm no code wizard, but as often as not when I did get a pink slip from a BI, I went the extra mile to look it up. I guess someone can't look it up if they don't have a book :-)
Although I don't know exactly what your job is, I have dealt with several guys who I think have similar jobs, and I'm not sure they really to need to know codes. They are working with engineered components and that engineer's stamp trumps codes; right? wrong?
"...They are working with engineered components and that engineer's stamp trumps codes; right? wrong?"
I sure don't look at it that way. I never thought I was above codes or didn't need them.
To some degree, you may be right. There are so many restrictions on trusses already that codes rarely mean anything.
It's too late for me to think TOO hard about this....
Breaktime: A hard head area
Although I don't know exactly what your job is, I have dealt with several guys who I think have similar jobs, and I'm not sure they really to need to know codes. They are working with engineered components and that engineer's stamp trumps codes; right? wrong?
In my experience wrong, wrong, and wrong. At least in places with an enforced code. An engineer's or architect's stamp say's you take responsibility for any failure and says your design will meet or exceed the code level required. The stamp may help in your "discussions" with the AHJ's or it may not. Some places the stamp tells the AHJ's that they don't have to check any thing but it does not excuse you from meeting at least the intent of the code and it your license lost if it fails. For example in the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse two engineer's lost there Missouri PE license.
Also not the AHJ's never take responsibility for a failure if a code level building fails.
Jim Hannah
Sorry I left out the quote marks around the first paragraph since I was quoting from the OP's later post. message # 15.
Jim Hannah
>> In my experience wrong, wrong, and wrong. << Are you saying that my previous sentence was wrong, or are you saying I had 3 things wrong?
Really, I'm not sure who this works, but in the case of trusses, as far as I know, the design just needs to be engineered, and that's it. The design is meeting a certain # PSF, L360, or whatever other general requirements, but other than that, truss designs aren't covered by code, are they? Later I'll look at my code book... Kinda late now, but I seem to remember seeing the phrase "acceptable engineering practices" several times through the book. Also, I've had a number of situations where the BI didn't feel some detail was up to code, and I got an engineer's letter to say that it was structurally sound as built. So, I hand the stamped letter to the BI, he signs off the job, and that's it. No doubt that the engineer is putting his license on the line, but I guess in reality every time he gets that stamp out, that is what he is doing. Most of these guys are quite conservative though.
>> Also not the AHJ's never take responsibility for a failure if a code level building fails. << Not sure exactly what you mean by that, may have had a typo, but here, by state law, the BI is never responsible for any problem that later develops with the building.
BTW - if you want to, you can go back and edit your post rather than posting a correction.
"...in the case of trusses, as far as I know, the design just needs to be engineered, and that's it. The design is meeting a certain # PSF, L360, or whatever other general requirements, but other than that, truss designs aren't covered by code, are they?"
To me, it's more like this:
The code specifies the amount of loading the trus has to be designed for. Like a 20# snow load and 90 MPH wind load, for instance.
The code does not specify the design methodology for the truss. That comes from the NDS.
I fired my masseuse today. She just rubbed me the wrong way.
I think we said the same thing, although yours is a little more concise.
Matt,
I'm saying that the Engineer's & Architect's stamp does not trump code it says that the detail or design meets or exceeds the code required minimum standard. In some jurisdictions the Building Inspector will allow the stamped design or detail to proceed without further checking but in many places its not so simple and the Engineer or Architect must persuade the AHJ to allow the design or detail to proceed with no assurance of success.
In most cases the ## psf, L/360, or similar limits are ultimately derived from a code document. ASCE 7-XX, etc, etc.
And finally what I was trying to say was; Note the AHJ or Building Inspector never takes responsibility for a failure or simple mistake (i.e. tells you the wrong snow load) but the PE, SE or Architect takes responsibility and or liability.
Hope I was a little clearer this time.
Jim
"An engineer's or architect's stamp say's you take responsibility for any failure and says your design will meet or exceed the code level required."
An engineer's stamp on a truss drawing only says the design on that particular page is correct. It doesn't mean that the design meets any particular code.
If athletes get athlete's foot, do astronauts get mistletoe?
Matt,
My Take...
Oregon has has operated under at 3 completely different codes since I came into this business. I have owned all of the code books except the latest one. That one IRC, ICC, I do not own because the inspectors I deal with have told me to not purchase it yet because the state is still looking at amendments that will mean I would need to re-purchase it again shortly.
In the area I live in it has been enforced from either not at all to having local inspectors who truly do look for ways to expand it.
The city I live in has gone from about 8,000 people to 30,000+, the county has equaled or exceeded that growth rate. City used to have one retired painter as an inspector. County had one inspector.
Inspections/permitting that were done from the curb with a fresh cold brown bottle in hand has changed to now having 1 Building official , 3 field inspectors (All have whom have attended school for their qualifications) and 2 office staff. And that is just the city , the county has at least that many in staff.
Small towns had no inspectors, or enforcement, relied on the county, now many have part time or full time certified inspectors.
At any given point along this time line I would have answered your post in a different manner depending on what I needed in my area at the time.
Piffin summed it up well, it truly depends on where you are.
But I agree a "Good" builder will own and use a code book, and try to not only learn the code but also learn why the rules are the rules. Take the time to learn what is the logic behind the codes.
"learn why the rules are the rules. Take the time to learn what is the logic behind the codes."True! To do less is negligence
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in most US states
May only be many, not most. To the best of my knowledge, information, and/or belief, Texas has no standardized building code. Texas does have a model energy efficiency code. Texas also has Accessibility Standards codified, too. But, that's it.
Only a few of the most-populous counties have any sort of Code, either. This puts it all on the municipalities to adopt, then enforce, a Code.
So, in days of old, we had a mish-mash of SBC, UBC, whatever, codes. None of which mattered if not enforced. Now, it seems like City Attorneys all travel in 'packs,' and as a result, we see a lot of just adopt IBC/IRC "as is" going on (some of that allows dovetailing energy compliance for less CA effort, though).
So, a person could spend an entire life building and never have to have their practices examined, reviewed, or otherwise regulated. For folks "out in the county" there's even less oversight. It's probably far too easy to make a case for "learning from plan-book plans is a less-ideal way to learn the building trade. But, for dozens of Counties here, that's all there is. It's all there ever has been, too.
I'm with you on the rant, though. It's tough sometimes to come across a "third generation builder" and no one in the firm has ever even heard of IRC or CABO or the like.
Not only has Texas adopted the TAS to supercede the ADA, but the city of Austin has adoptred their own version that supercedes the state regulations."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Texas adopted the TAS to supercede the ADA, but the city of Austin has adoptred their own version that supercedes the state regulations.
I'm told that TAs is set up that way, so that Texas can set the TAS certification (and therefore charge a person to get "State" certification).
Well, Austin has been long looking for a way to stop people from moving into Travis County for some time now <g> . . . (And it means the Engineering Dept gets to keep all of their Barrier-Free compliance people on the payroll, too.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
CapnMac,
When the TRCC came into existence, Texas adopted the IRC 2000 as the state minimum standard. Granted there are locations that do not have any inspectors, even here in parts of Travis County where the only concern in the right size tin horn in your driveway and a perk test for your septic tank in solid limestone.
Austin uses IRC 2003 right now with many modifications and adds new rules quite frequently. The newest rule coming up in August or September-that is not being advertised or discussed anywhere-is that all HVAC systems need to be pressured tested and certified by an independent third party.
Bruce
I agree that people that don't state their location can't expect an answer. Where I live [MD.] I can count 5 different codes [Plumbing] before I get to my beer drinking hand; different code book$$, license$$ etc. unless you work in multiple areas who can afford this?. I agree that a pro should have a code book for his primary working area.
"If all else fails, read the directions"
I've always wondered about the IRC, which I believe stands for International Residential Code. What's international about it?
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Most of my life has been spent in either an area with strickly enforced UBC (with 175 formal amendments) or the land of no code. In both instances few carps have a code book.
Carps used to building rather ordinary houses simply don't need a code book most of the time. The plans show enough details to take care of most code issues, except for possibly stair requirements. If there is a structural question the lumber yards would be relied on to size beams and if it's more complex the city probably wants to see something from an engineer.
Especially with remodeling or unique/quirky new homes, there are so many situations that fall into the grey areas that having the book may not do that much good other than to know how grey it is. To be useful the various codes are purposefully vague to cover most situations and grey areas have to exist or it would take 10x as many pages to spell out each unique situation.
I have the books, but they are refferenced less and less. Locally, there are many sections that are interpreted completely different from a strict reading of the code. Some items are omitted completely, which if you know the code seems like an inspector has missed something, but in fact they are going by the latest unwritten rules.
Personally I miss building in areas with no code. We could work on the house in the way that best fit our work schedule and talents of the crew, rather than in complete stages to comply with an inspection. I'll bet it increased our overall productivity by a few percent.
My main gripe about codes are the inspections, which put builders using fewer or smaller subs at the biggest disadvantage.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I am one of the hacks that doesn't own a code book. I worked in the field for more than ten years before there was any code at all. The number of situations where I really need a code book is limited and in those cases I usually just call up the inspector and ask him. Though I have argued points with him in the past (and won some of them) it is usually easier to go along with his interpretation. Asking the inspector only helps in the towns where the inspector can answer the question or cares enough to look it up.
Most of the inspectors are completely swamped, know a lot less than I do about building, and rarely visit the site for important inspections. Those that are knowledgeable and available I work with. They often send us updates on the code changes so that we are kept current.
I am currently working on Saturdays supervising a Habitat house in a town that is outside my normal working area. We are currently framing the first floor walls. Though we notified the inspector two days before we poured the footings, nobody has signed off on any of the required inspections. The footings are now buried. The inspector has no idea who I am or what my competency is. A Habitat house is often built completely by amateurs and should be subjected to every required inspection to protect the homeowners. And yet.
Though we notified the inspector two days before we poured the footings, nobody has signed off on any of the required inspections. The footings are now buried.
So you can blow off inspections with no consquences? I'm either confused or amazed.
The inspectors will tell you that they will try to visit the site before the pour but to go ahead anyway. Do they simply have too much to do? I don't know. There are no consequences for proceeding. In the small towns where we work the inspector has a part time job, possibly just one day a week. We often take pictures before we cover up but have never been asked to produce them.
In defense of the small towns, we don't suffer from many of the complaints of fraud and shoddy workmanship that seem to be so common in more populated areas. If a contractor does poor work or cheats a customer, everyone in town knows about it right away. If a customer get low quality work, it is because that is what they want to pay for.
<So you can blow off inspections with no consquences? >
Yes.
Matt
I live in a county that doesnt use a code for building. I'd guess that half the state of Iowa isnt regulated by any code. To build in the county that I live in all I have to do is have a perk test and away I go!
The county right to the north and to the east of me are regulated by code and are two of the larger counties in the state.
I have a code book but couldnt even tell you which one it is, been so long since I've had to use it - not that I know everything/anything but installing milwork usually doesnt necessitate it. I'm sure there are a lot of guys in rural areas with similar experiences.
Doug
Doug:
From what little I know about what you do, I'm guessing you are one of those people I referred to who specialize and can easily keep everything you need to know in your head. The codes relating to interior trim are fairly limited, especially once you subtract out the stair codes. Besides, I'll be $5 that when you install a stair handrail (for example) you know better than to make it <30" tall or >40" tall, whether your job is being inspected or not. Most codes actually do make sense... Now if you were building a house for a midget, I'm not how high the stair rails should be... :-)
Now if you were building a house for a midget, I'm not sure how high the stair rails should be... :-)
Now I'm going to have to find the book to see what the code says!
Yea, I dont have to worry about code to much, stair work is about all and thats not so much that I need to resort to the code to do it.
I do have to resort to a code book or the net when I do curved stair work. I do it so seldom that trying to remember that stuff isnt worth the effort, the nets usually a key stroke away!
Doug
Sounds like you just need some hot sex and an extra day off er somthin.
You covered a lot of sh^d in general.
A town can be more stringent than the codes . Is their option. They have to meet the minimum of the codes but H6ll ya they can double it if they want to. Its their town.
They dont carry code books to work and thats the way it is but I dont know why.
Tim
One point often overlooked by most folks is that there is not a code written that is intended to be a design manual, an instruction manual, or apply by people that don't ALREADY know the trade. Most codes carry such a disclaimer in their introduction.
So the question "what does the code say?" is very often the wrong question to ask.
Codes tend to be uniform not because of some dark conspiracy, but because physical laws are the same everywhere, and building practices tend to be uniform, just because the practices make sense.
For example, a 2x6 rafter will support the same load, without regard to whether the inspector sees it or not. Likewise, we usually make the foundation before we shingle the roof .... though that isn't always the case in Japan!
IF you are already competent in a trade, and following good design principles, you will most likely meet code without even trying.
The opposite is far from true: a design that is centered on doing as little as possible to satisfy the inspector will almost surely be a poor design, that makes everyone unhappy.
Look at it this way: When was the last time you saw a car advertised as having the absolute minimum to meet legal standards? For that matter, have you ever seen a car deliberately designed to provide as little as possible?
Like a breathe of fresh air!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Regarding your last paragraph, likewise building codes are designed to be a set of minimum standards.
For that matter, have you ever seen a car deliberately designed to provide as little as possible?
Hey, that's no way to talk about my old neighbor's Yugo, or the le Car it replaced <G>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)