What makes a FHB house vs. a cheap one
WorkshopJon
| Posted in General Discussion on
ALL,
I’ve done walk through’s of many newly constructed houses, and they are often built like $h*t. Not that mine doesn’t have it’s faults, but that’s a whole nother story.
If one were building a new home from scratch, and money wasn’t that much of an issue (vs. impressing your neighbors), How would you do it…..?
ie.
Plumbing, electric, floors, truss vs. stick…..etc. etc?
WSJ
Edited 9/5/2009 4:43 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 9/5/2009 5:03 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Replies
one foot thick concrete walls with six inch concrete roof, heavy rebar with a foot thick concrete wall around the property, and no gate, just throw the food over the wall
Sorry if this is off topic, but...
The first thing I'd cosider is a good location.
Almost all of the new homes are in bad locations.
Put a good home in a bad location and what do you have?
Will Rogers
What would you consider a bad location?
For me living in a subdivision outside a metropolitan area would be a real downer.
But for many others it would be the be all to end all.
Bad location:
The bottom of a hill in a cold climate where cold air collects. Also pollution
Side of a hill in a climate prone to wildfire
In a flood plain
In the middle of a field in a heating climate
In a dense forest in a cooling climate
Next to an electrical substation (60Hz hum)Look for a cell phone tower and try to get close to that. Means they found the highest point nearby and you'll probably get good coverage!There are also personal preferences that dictate good and bad locations. I personally can't stand a subdivision. Cul-de-sacs creep me out. I like a road that goes somewhere at the end of my driveway. I've heard people with kids say they love a cul-de-sac so their kids can play there. Play in the STREET? Isn't that dangerous? I grew up in the country so the whole concept is beyond me. Plus I don't like the sound of kids playing, so anywhere I can live that minimizes my exposure to that the better. Nothing near an elementary school. I think if I was going to live among people I might like to try the efficiencies of multi-family dwellings. I have a friend that lives in a high rise condo in Midtown Atlanta. It's surprising how good the sound proofing is between units.Ideally I would have a place like that and a nearby job that paid me a ton of money and then my country retreat to get away from it all. And when I retired it would be just the country retreat, the ultimate Fine Home. Still waiting for that job in the city! Hopefully a city with like-minded people. That's another aspect of location. I love my land in the country, but I really don't have any friends here.
Cul-de-sacs creep me out.I love cul de sac. I have one with 1/2 acre. if I had my way it be 1/4 acre. I rather have a court yard house.
I wouldn't want to live in a place that doesn't have diversity.
But I'm talking about a bunch of different kinds of diversity.
We have lower income apartments down the street, food markets and other stores, a major multi-use path alongside a stream, a elementary school, older widows, young families just starting.
It goes on and on. I can ride my bike just about anywhere.
I dislike driving but have to for some things.
The town of Ft Collins is doing a pretty good job and are pushing alternative transportation.
South of town is where they are building the new homes with huge commercial strips.
The seems to be the trend in development. Small homes on small lots with huge commercial strips nearby that you drive to.
That's where the super sized stores are. Lowes, etc. I rarely go down there.
We are south of the old town which is the nicest part of town. It was built before the ww11 boom. Lots of character.
The new stuff has no soul as far as I'm concerned.
You could say the same for our neighborhood compared to old town but it's what we could afford.
I'm trying to build old character into our house. But money is tight right now so it is on hold. It might not get done. Sigh. Oh well. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
My opinion, but "fine" versus "####" is more often the result of the attitude of the people handling and installing the materials versus the specific materials themselves.
To me it's a matter of having a sense of scale and proportion.
Ah, gotta go. I'll try more later.
Mongo,
What you refer to is the term Genius Loci, which the late Frank Lloyd Wright, as well as many others picked up on, or should I say understood.
Wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_loci
But as others have said, the best materials in the world installed by a hack don't make for a good house, but on the other hand, if you are going to spend the time and money, what materials would you use? ie. Pex vs. copper, 10 gauge vs. 12 or 14 'cause that's all code requires.
I could go on, but I'd think it would be great to hear other BT'er's thoughts.
WSJ
I think Sarah Susanka's book is a good place to start. The Not So Big House. Its about investing more in the design process up front, placing a premium on quality of materials and craftsmanship of details, efficiency of layout vs. wasted or unused space, energy efficiency, building for longevity. I'll add some more as get time, but this is a good place to start.
I also admire the work of Greene and Greene. They built quality, admittedly expensive homes, but viewed each project as a work of life-enhancing art, rather than just a commercial venture.
http://www.susanka.com/
http://www.bakersfieldremodel.com/Greene_and_Greene.html
He's right.. location, location, location!
Once you've achieved that It's nearly impossible to screw up a timberframe. If you build it yourself it's not very expensive for what you get.
If you're building it yourself the easiest way to do it is with ICF's. They really are big foam leggos and they don't take a lot of skill to use. Exact details are dependant upon your site and not some generic plans.. Windows need to be located where there is a view and not where some remote architect thought they should go.. Same with doors and every other part of the design..
A really fine home should make maximum use of space and provide everything within a short distance..
Energy efficency can dictate if it's a one or 2 story. Two stories make better use of limited lot size. One story eliminates stairs and the hassle of them as you age.. However a single story will take more energy to heat and cool than a 2 story.. (for the same size house)
Heating is best done with in floor radiant heat. Cooling is dependant on location..
You just beat me to it..Thanks : )View Image
The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern
"If you're building it yourself the easiest way to do it is with ICF's"
Frenchy,
I don't doubt that, but they are a PITA to snake wires though. I would tend to think a stick framed wall, WITH polyurethane glued to plywood sheathing and f-glass insulation would be the way to go. If it's caulked well prior, f-glass is pretty good.
WSJ
Warning: Get into a debate with Frenchy about IFC's and this discussion is pretty much done.
Edited 9/5/2009 5:49 pm ET by fingersandtoes
just ICFs?
I don't doubt that, but they are a PITA to snake wires thoughwire goes on the outside
I've found it easier to drill through foam than wood.. that's really the only differance..
I've found it easier to drill through foam than wood.. that's really the only differance..<<<<You keep answering b/4 me...lol.
I agree again. You can melt through foam a whole lot easier then drilling through wood BUT that's besides the point. Oh...and lets not leave out how super insulated you are compared to a stick frame.
I'd probably use the Thermo Steel panels I tried out on the timber frame I finished a cpl of months ago. They're WAY lighter then ICF's and come cut to size and shape AND you can order it with the channels already melted out for you where ever you want.Here's some photos(The slide show button at the top left shows them nicely: http://picasaweb.google.com/andybuildz/TimberFrameGardenRoom?feat=directlinkView Image
The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern
I could have had wire chases put into my SIP's panels (at no extra charge) but that would have required more planning than I wanted to do..
I found it a whole lot simpler to plan around it .. the few places where it was important to have wires in place I found it really easy to drill through the foam.
However in retrospect instead of SIP's for the walls I would have done ICF's.. The material cost would be similar but the house would have gone together in less than 1/2 of the time..
However in retrospect instead of SIP's for the walls I would have done ICF's.. The material cost would be similar but the house would have gone together in less than 1/2 of the time..<<<When I was considering doing one for me a cpl of years ago thats exactly the route I'd have gone....until I found ThermAsteel http://www.thermasteelcorp.com/View Image
The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
The Topics Too Hot For Taunton's Breaktime Forum Tavern
Frenchy,
You mentioned: "One story eliminates stairs and the hassle of them as you age"My uncle claimed he had seen life insurance actuarial tables that showed people who lived in multi story houses with stairs live longer.The idea being that just that little bit of additional daily exercise will extend your life.Don't know if it is really true but I like the concept.karl
Could be, but then you'd need to factor in the possiblity of falls down the stairs. Men My age average 84 years old before dying.. I'm not sure I want to be hiking up and down stairs at that age..
I planned on my children using the second (actually 3rd) story.
Aging is the pits. Right now I have to climb a ladder to get to my bed. That's why I better build this new decrepit-accessible house before my arthritis is so bad I can't squeeze the trigger on my impact driver anymore. I don't have any kids so I need to endear myself to one of my nieces and hope she'll live in the cute house with the ladder and take care of me in my dotage.
I agree with both mongo and huck. Its the quality of the design and craftsmanship, not the materials that make it.
I have no problem building with inexpensive materials. that doesn't mean you can't do a quality job, plus most of my career I have focused on the parts that are covered up.
If you want a cheap house choose cheap finishing materials, you can always go back and add the tile or custom cabinets or expensive fixtures later. I don't think it matters if you have laminate countertops, or inexpensive carpeting if the structure is sound.
The difficult thing to go back and add is the cathedral ceiling, or caulking and sealing before the insulation went in.
I love to do hot water recirculating systems, and blank conduit runs for future wires, and solid plywood in baths and closets so you can hang a towel bar or shelf, thinking ahead and putting those things into the house when you have the opportunity is what makes it a quality design with good craftsmanship.
Those things may cost a little bit extra when you are constructing, but they are difficult to go back and add later.
First thing is definitely location. I love me the top of a hill.
I need enough land that I can't see any neighboring property from my house. I will complete this illusion of isolation with soundproofing.
Next thing is siting. Since I'm way out in the country with all this land I have a well. I want it to be uphill from the house enough to give me water during extended power outages.
I want my site to be level enough that I can have brick patios instead of those infernal decks. My dream house is going to be LOW MAINTENANCE.
Architecturally my house would be respectful of the area. I'm thinking of the south, so it's all made of wood and bricks because trees and clay we've got. Nothing looks dumber to me than a faux river rock facade in a place where all the rivers have nothing in them but sand.
All the exterior doors will have 6' overhangs and other countermeasures to keep them dry. Because I like a real wood door. I also like nice door hardware. Solid brass levers, please. Hopefully on the interior I can reuse some nice 6 panel pine doors. And I have a pitch pine Dutch door I'm saving for just the right place. Between the kitchen and the....? Office? Not sure yet.
I'm fascinated with fiberglass pultrusion windows. I've never used any, but they look like they'd meet my low maintenance requirement. I want those. I want plate glass and the kind that swing so they can be clamped tight shut so it's really sound proof.
I want properly calculated overhangs on the south and west windows to cut down on solar gain. I will arrange it so most of my best views will be to the North.
I want a hip roof.
The roofing material is white steel and fiber cement siding for fire resistance. No venting. Brick is low maintenance and fire resistant, so I may have to consider that if I have all this money.
I'm not sure about my foundation. If I live all by myself I like a wood floor on joists with some give to it. I'd do it old school with the diagonal subfloor, all real wood, no plywood. But I kind of hate being able to feel it when other people walk around in the house, so maybe I want a slab. But I want a knee wall to get it up off the ground a good bit. (Now I got those bricks) You get a better view if you're higher.
Regarding the view, I might like part of the house to be really high with windows. Maybe I need a cupola and a loft kinda deal.
I may need to have a timber framed house so I can get a good crew to do the heavy lifting and leave me with finish work I can handle myself. I'm not sure about SIPs. I like the concept, but I don't like that they're made of toxic-to-me glued wood product.
Not sure about ICFs either. Having cleaned up a burned down house I am sensitive to the end of life of things. I kind of like the idea that when nobody wants it anymore they can unscrew the recyclable roof, remove the appliances and plumbing fixtures, pile a bunch of lighter'd knots around it and return all the sequestered carbon back to the atmosphere in one easy step.
I think I'd tend to go old school. Real wood planks for sheathing (since it's timber frame they aren't part of the stiffness equation, right? Then I'd go modern with foamed in place insulation so there's no place for mice to run. Like SIPS, only a lot more work.
All my appliances will be chosen to be energy efficient and QUIET. And hopefully on clearance. I know money is no object, but I just hate paying retail.
I don't like granite countertops. I just don't. I like a plain light color Corian countertop around the sink. I'm flexible elsewhere. I have a 1 3/4" thick solid pine counters in my house now and they're nice. I have pieces of Corian I put on top of them if I'm doing anything messy there.
I have a big Fireclay farm sink in storage just waiting for this imaginary house. I need to build a piece of furniture to hold it. The faucets holes are on the back. I think that's going to be brilliant. None of the hard water build up around the faucet base. I also have a large piece of black Fireslate in storage, and a gigantic black cast iron sink. I will have a kind of work room for non-food projects.
I will have a #### of electrical outlets in my house. Way more circuits than you'd ever think necessary. Each appliance has its own breaker. I better have me a backup generator to keep the freezer going during these power outages too. While I'm at it I think I'll rig up my uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) at the circuit breaker panel so I can put my computers wherever I want and then hook that circuit to the UPS.
I think we've gotten beyond that notion of wiring a house for low voltage junk, so my house wouldn't have any of that. Just high speed fiber to the place where the wireless router goes. I'm also not doing any of that distributed audio nonsense. If I want that I'll wear my damn iPod.
Home theater, hmm, I might need that if I don't live all by myself or if this house is big enough for company. I don't need a closet full of gear and wires in the walls though. I just need a room on the east side of the house for it (no windows with glaring light in the evening).
The final ingredient for building the best house possible -- Time is no object. Doesn't matter how long it takes to build any particular part so long as it comes out nice and works with the next step. My ideal house also has no regard for any future owners. I build it for me with a thought to how my family will take care of it after I'm gone, but there is no reason to worry about resale value. Only maintenance costs.
I built a 3 story ICF on a nice lakefront lot. I used All Weather Windows and got the fiberglass frame. They are maintance free, tight and I would recommend them to anyone.The house is almost soundproof and if a tornado comes I'll only loose a roof.Stucco exterior no paint needed. Extended roof overhang for reducing sun penetration and if raining up can stand and fumble with keys with out getting wet. Large entry door platform for the main door.one thing not mentioned is a ceiling higher than 8 ft. in the main living area. It gives a feeling of open ness.
We built a barrier free guest room upstairs, so when we get old we have a house all on one floor.Sound reduced/proof bedrooms.4 foot wide hallways, 4 + foot stairways. all doors 34, 36 inch wide. I never want to pop off hinges to move furniture into a room.
last all drywall corners are round and it the main living area rounded inside corners. lot more work but does it ever look nice. we also brought the ceiling paint down 3 inches around the main living area and with the inside round corner it really adds a softness to the rooms.Oops forgot. My 1100 ft workshop is near but not attached to the house. no noise, dust transmission. has bathroom and work sink. large garage door for moving materials in and out, no stinking cars or trucks allowed. It is MY DOMAIN no one goes in without permission, except DW.
Edited 9/6/2009 9:24 am ET by Shoemaker1
You can have planking with either ICF's or SIP's (Look though my photos for examples)..
As for your design of sprayed foam, SIP's (or ICF's) would be massively less time consuming, efficent, and most likely made in a factory where off gasing is recycled..
One other point.. ICF's and SIP's by their design are far less likely to start a fire than a stick built house with fiberglas insulation.
I don't know where you're at but if it's a high heating or cooling area you should rethink tour insulation plans. Fiberglas is not what you'll want. It's really simple fiberglas will not prevent airflow through it.. thus it is totally dependant on other air barriers.
It might help you to know that insulation is tested in perfect labratory conditions.. with a nominal differance between inside temp and outside temps..
In the real world fiberglas makes a lousy insulator. If you hate Foam then use celluliose. (at least it's recycled)
One other point.. the cupula will gather a lot of heat. good in a high cooling climate. bad in a high heating climate.. I needed to put a glass window closing off access to the cupula in order to reduce my heat loss. On really sub zero days it still frosts up (in spite of double glazing) which means a lot of heat is still escaping..
If I didn't need the natural sunlight I'd close it all back in.
I'm in the Deep South. High humidity cooling climate. And my land is a longleaf forest which is a fire dependent ecosystem so I'm mostly worried about fire from the outside. I had a lightning strike start a fire at the bottom of my hill this summer. Fortunately I was home and heard the strike and resulting crack in my surge suppressor on my network. While I was troubleshooting my computers I saw the smoke outside. Went out with a rake and put out the fire before it burned more than a tennis court worth of area. I think I confused you with my chemical sensitivities and allergies. I like foam. Fiberglass and cellulose are not my friends. Icynene foam just releases water as it cures. That's what I have in my house now. It smells kinda funny for a few weeks, but it didn't give me mental confusion or fatigue when I lived in here without interior walls for 8 months or so. A lot of glued wood products outgas formaldehyde or other chemicals for years and years. I need to get a sample of a SIP and live with it for a while. If it doesn't make me sick then I suppose I can build a house out of it.I don't want to sound totally unreasonable. I aim to be rational in my choices. I appreciate new products and admit shortcomings in all-natural stuff. The unfinished pine walls I have now outgas too. I can really smell that piney smell if I close the house up and let it get good and hot in here. I don't think those rosin esters are very good for me either, so I turn on the exhaust fan and vent that air. And I still use stuff that I'm sensitive too if I know it will only make me sick for a little while but then perform well for a long time. Caulking and painting messes me up pretty bad. Pthalates and latex. But I do it anyway and just deal with my sinuses closing up and my eyes watering, the fatigue and loss of mental function. How smart do I need to be to caulk and paint anyway? I feel normal in about three days and my house looks great for years.I would feel real dumb if I built a house with something that was gonna smell funny for the life of the house though. Like those rubber floors at the gym made out of old tires. I hate that they invented that stuff. No more gym for me.I had an idea a long time ago that what you need in the south is living scheme you can invert based on the season. In the summer have your living quarters on the bottom floor and let heat rise to the high part of the house all day. Then when the sun sets vent all that hot air and cool off that part of the house and go to sleep. When winter comes move all your stuff around and spend your days in the top part of the house where it's warmed by the sun and let it be cold down below. Then when it's time to go to bed turn on your electric blanket.I guess I'll put the bathroom on the bottom floor with a radiant floor. On in the winter, off in the summer. The kitchen... Can I have an in-between floor?So basically that loft by the cupola is an office in the winter and a bedroom in the summer.Right now I have my bed in a loft a maximum of 3 1/2 feet from the cathedral ceiling. I have a real appreciation for the drastic change in temperature with height. My aunt's 100 yr old un-air-conditioned house has 12 1/2' ceilings, very large, dark rooms and a big attic under a hip roof. In the summer the attic fan cools it off at night and it stays cooler inside than outside until about 5 pm. It is freakishly difficult to heat that house up in the winter though. Wood stove with all the dampers open works pretty good, but it is really just not comfortable in cold weather. It is hard to strike a year-round compromise here.
I like your thinking..
Clearly you are capable of thinking outside the box. Good for you..
I like the permanace of ICF's. If you do like I did and put a brick ledge in you can coat the outside with stone. (did a sort of rubble stone).. that makes the building extremely fire resistant. (my pictures are at 39444.1, 85891.1 & 94941.1 Be sure to scroll through all of the pictures on each site..)
To make the roof completely fire resistant you need something like clay or cement tile.. fire and embers can lay on them without transfering the fire to the structure below.. unlike steel which quickly radiates heat to the structure below..
ICF's also do a fine job of sealing up places where conditioned air can escape while providing the thermal isolation required to retain much of that energy.
(plus they are extremely simple and fast to build with)
For the roof I am greatly intriqued by the thermosteel panels mentioned elsewhere..
No offgassing possiblities, the thermal isolation needed to both contain energy and provide fire protection..
Kind of off subject but did you ever read the ingredients in the "grapefruit" drinks like WINK? They have ester of wood rosin!Here in Jacksonville there are two plants that make many of the scents and tastes you find in everyday consumer items. Bubble gum and toothpaste flavors. Scents for perfumes [ you don't really think they use 1 ton of rose petals for rose scent do you? ]. They are all distilled from pine trees. They heat and "crack" the chemicals like they do with oil to extract the lighter volatile chemicals.Now back to your regular program.
Yes, a longleaf pine tree makes some wonderful stuff. That's why it's the rarest most endangered forest type in the United States. The whole reason I live here is because my sickly ancestor from Philadelphia was told that the piney woods made respiratory ailments better. There was a whole resort down here just for that. He drove down in a coach and six to take the air one winter in the 1890s. The pollen and mold spores likely made him even worse, but he had so much fun shooting and playing golf he came back the next year and bought a hunting plantation.I'm interested in cork floors too. As well as genuine linoleum which I understand uses real cork. I actually kind of like sheet flooring, at least the high end kind like they use in operating rooms. It has a lot of advantages, like being easier on your feet and back than tile and if you drop something it might bounce instead of break. The floor itself is probably even less likely to be damaged by the falling object too. My tripod fell over on my solid maple floor last week and I have an inch long divot in the wood. (I tried putting water on it to see if it would swell back up. Any other suggestions?)As for hip roofs, I like 'em. So much easier to paint the house -- no high sides. FAR better in a wind event. There's huge discounts on home-owners insurance in Florida if you have a hip roof. My dad the metal building guy doesn't like them because they waste material. But my uncle the boat builder loved a hip roof and cut his metal by hand anyway. He built a hip roof his house on Dog Island roofed with Onduline (gone through many a hurricane) and his house in the country roofed with industrial grade sheet metal bought from my dad (tornado threw half a live oak tree on it. Poked holes in the metal but didn't break the structure.) He designed the hip so whatever he cut off one piece of metal would fit on the other side of the house. Anybody know of any house plans for sale like that?
I push cork flooring like Frenchy pushes shellac. Very non allergenic. Easy DIY.
I love this photo from insulation day. The installer's truck is bigger than my whole house.
This is interesting. I happen to be building a home from scratch right now and although money is an issue, I'm proceeding as if it wasn't , lol!
Finding the location was a major effort. So I have to agree with those who made that point. Oddly enough, when I found the spot I ended up purchasing the building sort of designed itself in my brain, in response to the lay of the land. I think the reason the particular location seemed right was because most everything else in the way of property evoked little or nothing in the way of a response in me. Kind of like shopping by process of elimination. Personally, I like building things that interest and challenge me. Life seems awfully short to be doing otherwise.
Right now I'm constructing an underground storage/wine cave type structure and I've noticed that everything my brain tells me to do design-wise is the exact opposite of what my reasoning would tell me to do cost containment-wise, heh, heh! Maybe that's what makes a fine home; just a willingness to satisfy our innate sense of doing things the best way we know how.
sunsen
That's how I approached my house.. It cost what it cost and who cared what that number was.. Well I did in that I PUT A GREAT DEAL OF EFFORT TO BUY THINGS AS CHEAPLY AS POSSIBLE (oops! caps lock) I got some fantastic deals by thinking out of the box. I went to a scrap Iron place and found a whole pallet of thick copper sheets.. enough to do all of the roof and all of the timbers.. when I was done I sold the scraps to the recyclers for nearly 1 1/2 times what I paid for the whole pallet.
The wood. Instead of going to the lumberyard and paying a lot of money for ordinary wood. I went direct to the sawmill and bought it wholesale..
The really cool thing is I got black walnut, white oak, cherry, hard maple, etc.. for less than 1/3 what I would have paid for ordinary lumber.. My sub flooring instead of 3/4 inch plywood was 2 inch thick hardwood. At the time the lumberyards were getting $45.00 for a sheet of 3/4 inch tongue and groove plywood. I paid only $6.40 for the same coverage with hardwood 2 inches thick.
After I had put up the cedar shakes I found out I had really messed up.. If I'd bought a dozen 8 foot redwood logs and split the shakes myself I could have saved thousands of dollars.
I can relate. So far the timing appears to be pretty good for me building this thing. Material costs have really come down. A year or so ago 1/2" rebar was up over $10 bucks for a 20' bar and I just bought some at near $4 a bar. I wouldn't mind prices going this way for a while.
I use 1 1/8" t&g for my subfloors and glue the hell out of it. That combined with TJI joists makes an excellent floor. I wonder what that stuff is running these days...?
I believe "fine" is not defined by how much you spent... I even think you can build "fine" without breaking the bank...
simple things like back priming and proper flashing making sure things are plumb true and square... equal FHB... materials that will last... everyone has a budget ... knowing where to spend it is the trick... fixtures can be upgraded anytime... but you can't polish a turd...
p
ALL,
at least this thread is going somewhere. Please keep the thoughts and ideas flowing. I'll be back later, but have to go to Church now.
WSJ
I would like one of those log homes with big stone work..
The first thing I would do would be to define, in detail, exactly how I wanted the house to function. I would then design it to best serve that function. "Code minimum" would not be in the vocabulary.
I don't mean to waste money on expensive frills. Rather, I mean to design spaces as they would actually be used.
For example, I'd envision where the furniture was likely to be, and place the receptacles where I was likely to need power - rather than following the "12 ft. rule." In most cases, this would mean just one more receptacle in the room - so the receptacles would be on either side of the sofa (or bed), rather than buried behind the furniture.
Or, There would be space in the bathroom for a larger toilet, and a magazine rack / shelf near it, as well as good lighting. I've lost count of the bathrooms I've seen where the toilet is lost in the shadows, and your elbows bang against the walls. If it were a bathroom that you would be likel;y to use at night, I'd place a night light where it would actually shed some useful light.
Extra attention would be paid to cleaning, leveling, and covering the crawl space .... after all, who wants to have to crawl over the last guy's trash?
I think you get the idea ...
First suggestion is to do away with the concept of "lowest bidder". Money not being an issue, focus on hiring quality tradesmen to do a job right and even a modest home can be a fine home.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
A few things I would consider:
Basement - MANDITORY!!! I hate not having a basement. 10' tall ceilings in the basement. Actual planning of ductwork so it takes a minimum of that headroom.
Open floorplan - All interior walls are non load bearing, all the house is supported around the rim, which also means...
Open utility zones - a space to run utilities and access to them without tearing up drywall. Plumbing, HVAC, Elec, and low voltage can all be easily moved around here as the needs of the house change.
I wouldn't do truss for the roof, as it's not a flexible as stick framed for changing later.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
A couple of things.1) Why a 10' ceiling in the basement? Unless you are going to stick that foundation far out of the ground, you will have a pretty hefty load on your foundation wall from the soil pressure. Not that that's a bad thing, but something to keep in mind.2) I wouldn't consider trusses less flexible, except for in certain circumstances. With stick framing, if you want to move an interior wall, there's a decent change it's structural. For trusses, all you typically have to worry about are your exterior walls.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
10' ceiling in the basement, because it's much harder to add things below solid concrete that it is open space above. I'm 6' tall, and I really hate banging my head on things. Headroom in a basement is something that's always easy to give away, and nearly impossible to add later.As for the trusses vs. stick, with a truss you have a specificly engineered device that only works for EXACTLY how it's engineered. If you need to change your roof space somehow, say a skylight or converting an attic space, it's much easier to do with stick framing rather that going back and trying to re-engineer a truss to do something it was not supposed to do. You can also make stick built rest on the outer edges too, you just have to plan and build it that way from the outset not to depend on interior bearing points.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
"10' ceiling in the basement, because it's much harder to add things below solid concrete that it is open space above. I'm 6' tall, and I really hate banging my head on things. Headroom in a basement is something that's always easy to give away, and nearly impossible to add later."
Your point is true, although I would posit that a 9' ceiling in the basement will allow one to keep from banging their head (unless they're 7'6" tall) and will avoid some of the other issues. As I mentioned, the soil pressure increases significantly, and you also have to deal with deeper window wells (if you want a legal egress window), more grading needed for a walk-out (or a deeper well for a walk-up) and other issues that correspond with going deeper in the ground.
"You can also make stick built rest on the outer edges too, you just have to plan and build it that way from the outset not to depend on interior bearing points."
Good luck with a building that is more than 24' deep. Your ceiling joists need to get pretty big for that to be possible. A typical 28' Fink truss is a relatively simple item, but a 28' ceiling joist would likely cost as much as the entire truss while also weighing more. There's nothing wrong with stick framing. In fact, I rather enjoy it. However, trusses do bring a lot to the table.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
True, trusses CAN be a better choice for long runs. I guess it really is dependent on the structure you are building. When I think roof trusses, I think of all that potential attic space rendered useless by webs of 2x4.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
When I think of trusses I think of the hammer truss in a timberframe.. the soaring open spaces created by effective design.
If you build it yourself, it's actually cheaper than purchased trusses..
Ultimately I think what sets the FHB house above the mediocre is the attention to detail every step of the way from design to move in. A FHB house is never quite complete, that is, there is always something else. Basically a FHB house is a love of labor.
I think a FHB house can be complete. I saw a home a friend had built in Long Grove Illinois. The basement had more square footage than my whole house, maybe my last two houses together. But everywhere I looked I could see real attention to detail, stair handrails that mitered into the wall, ductwork that was perfectly taped and sealed, etc. Everything looked perfect, everywhere.I didn't like some of their design choices of course, but everything was still implemented with the greatest craftsmanship.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
One thing that was not brought up in the "location" arguments is "access."
There's location and there's location.
"Middle of dense woods" might be tough to deliver SIPS or trusses to; or, if they can get in, then maybe the 'enough needed' crane might not. ICFs in remote locations can be exciting if you can't get ready-mix also delivered.
Gukf Coast region, maybe what you need is an insualted box up on pilings, so the outdoor areas are in the breeze; have a metal roof just "float" over the top to be a sunshade and to divert 80% of the rain.
Down on the coast, in the wind construction zones, that could be different. (Might also make it hard to have a basement, too.) Masonry veneered ICF, block, or SIP contruction would make some sense.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm still good with the classics:
- Commodity
- Firmness
- Delight
Such as possess the gifts of fortune are easily deprived of them: but when learning is once fixed in the mind, no age removes it, nor is its stability affected during the whole course of life. Marcus Vitruvius Pollio
Jeff
That's my Recession Studio. I built it after the last recession (the high tech crash in 2003 when electrical engineers had a 7% unemployment rate, which at the time was higher than the unemployment rate for the general population) so I'd be ready if there were any more like that. (Boy was I insightful. I got laid off 16 months ago. Still no job. Grateful for a $60 power bill and $40 DSL as my only monthly living expenses.) So anyway, in 2004 I put all my worldly possessions in mini warehouses and moved out to my family land on the Florida border. I got a menial job at a civil engineering company in the town 20 miles away and bought building materials with my paltry paychecks. I built the house all by myself on weekends.
That back story is to explain why it's so absurdly small. An 8' 2x8 is a very affordable rafter, plus it is not too heavy for a small woman to lift by herself. That was my limitation on how big my main room could be.
My dad had a metal building contracting business in a town nearby. (He had to close it this year.) I got a lot of crucial components from him for free (those short pieces of white roofing and Hardiplank leftover from a big job, the end of a roll of Tyvek, steel clips for my loft beams. And he let me borrow a crank up scaffold to do the siding.) While my dad was generous in material he wouldn't actually help me build the house. He disapproved of my building technique. His idea of a Fine Home is one that is detailed on blueprints and then built to the plan. My technique is more by eye. I figure it out as I go along. Design by shopping. I get all the materials I can for free, surplus, or on clearance, collect them up in my big shed and then figure out how they can go together. An overlooked complication in one step becomes a design feature later. This irks my dad beyond belief. When I would ask him how to overcome some complication of trimming out my roof he would show me how it's SUPPOSED to be done, and I'd say how I couldn't do that because of something I did wrong earlier. His thinking is totally inside the box. My problem is I'm not all that familiar with the box so I have to make it up as I go along.
I couldn't actually do it all myself either. I had to hire two of my dad's employees one weekend to come out and finish my soffits. Because of a miscalculation when I cut my purlins the 12" Hardisoffit wasn't wide enough to cover the soffits the normal way. I had to devise a way of lapping it the short way. I simply could not do more than about 5 pieces holding the nail gun over my head on a ladder and climbing back down to cut the next piece before I was wiped out. Two strong men came out with that crank up scaffold and knocked it out in a day with me cutting the material on the ground and handing it up. (There was a wren's nest up under the soffit on the tarpaper I had stapled up there and one of those men completely freaked out. I had to remove it and reassure him that there weren't any more. He is terrified of baby birds!) They went up to the shop and bent up that lovely rake flashing and gutter and put it on for me after they finished nailing up the Hardisoffit. I also had to hire them to carry the cast iron claw foot tub in. I guess a Fine Home has a lot of heavy stuff in it and can't really be built by one person alone. I paid a guy to bring my Subzero refrigerator out here from my mini warehouse and help me carry it up the steps. The cast iron farmhouse sink I walked up the steps by myself and got within two feet of the installation point before I had to ask my aunt to come help me pick it up the rest of the way.
I wish I had a robot for things like that. Like that Honda robot Asimo? He could just stand there not asking me how long it's going to take and be ready when I need something lifted and held.
Edited 9/7/2009 12:00 pm ET by Beachton
I would not mine living in something like that. its nice, can you take more picture. i like to see the inside too. Upper window, does it have a loft
Yes, loft. The main room is about 11'x11' with an 8'x8' loft. (I had a king size mattress already.) The kitchen area is under the loft. The office is under the ladder to the loft in the space where the front door swings. Problem with a house this small is that the 3' arc swept out by the door is an appreciable percentage of the room. The bottom of the beam across the front of the loft is just above the height of the door but still far enough back to miss it anyway. My dad fabricated the beam for me out of live oak. Very little deflection. It has a lip at the bottom that holds the joists. I used steel clips and lag bolts to attach the loft beam to the double 2x6 beam that's the primary support for the roof. They're the same kind of clips that hold up 30' steel purlins in my shed.I used 2x4s on 12" centers for joists for the loft. (All I could find when I needed them was that really light spruce that feels like balsa. Just seemed like I needed a lot of them.) I stained them red ahead of time to match the door and put water based poly on them. I also pre finished 1x6 tongue and groove boards like the walls. For some reason being the kitchen ceiling it just felt like they needed to be sealed. (A lot of the walls are unfinished.) I put that "floor" up there nothing but a finish nailer, pretty side down. Then I got the king sized mattress out of the mini warehouse when my brother in law was in town and made him help me heave it up there over the beam. After the mattress was in I just climbed in and out every night with an aluminum ladder. I had the old maple gym floor sanded down and put some water based polyurethane on that, then was finally ready to build the steps and ladder to the loft.I found some Italian ready made spiral stairs online that you can get as a kit for thousands of dollars. I totally ripped off their idea for the alternating treads at the bottom. Those are mounted on Simpson Stong Tie angles. (Sorry, not very Fine.) The ladder the rest of the way up is actually removable. It hooks over a 2x6 pine beam I added for that purpose. I cut the 2x6 sides to fit then I took them to my dad and he cut the dados and put the steps in for me. The platform at the top has a handle cut into it. It works great. You can't really tell from the picture but the top and bottom of that window frame have handles cut into them too. That's why they stick out. I think I got that idea from a towel bar in a window frame in a FH article about tile or bathrooms. I haven't fallen yet!I put some yoga mat foam on part of the platform. It makes a nice place to sit. It also helps when climbing down because you can feel it's time to transition to the different kind of treads.
Building on my earlier post, there's another aspect of good design to keep in mind: How will a space be used?
Don't limit your thought to just the final use. Are the parts that need maintaining or repair accessible? Can you move furniture in?
It is when your priorities begin to wander away from these basics that things start going awry. For example, a house made to be the ultimate in energy efficiency won't look at all like a house designed to use only 'standard' components, or one designed to produce the least construction waste. And so on ...
Ditto for building methods and materials. A round room might give you the view you want - but your building method might make that impossible, and you'll have to settle for a room with angles, rather than curves.
Good design involves numerous compromises ... but, in the end, these design choices are what put the 'fine' in 'fine homebuilding.'
I won't claim there's a 'perfect' way to design a house, in part because the way we live keeps changing. Lifestyle also changes by region. The local geography plays a role. The house I would want on the Great Plains is probably quite a bit different from what I would want in San Francisco.
Thanks! I sent my editor buds pictures of it a long time ago. They thought it was precious. I was flattered that they asked me to write up my opinions of epoxy grout. If I don't get a job one of these days I suppose I'll have to write a book about it. I'm still waiting for a happy ending to occur to me!
I applaud you. And I don't applaud often.
Do you know how hard it is to take pictures of a room that's only 11' across?! Plus I'm embarrassed by my in-progress pictures. I mostly only took them when I screwed something up so bad I had to look at it on the computer to draw it and figure out a solution. The main lesson in my house is that impatient people better not start one.
I'm glad you like my story, but no thanks on the website. If I ever end up writing a story or a book about it I'll let you know and send you all the links and everything then. Right now I don't even mention my house on my own website and blog. I get a lot of different reactions to my little house and some of them are disconcerting to me. I prefer to avoid this uncomfortable situation. For example, I overheard my aunt talking to a woman friend of hers who was out of work and struggling, but she had a bit of land. My aunt said that she should build a little house like I did. As though if I could do it anybody could do it. (In fact those might have been her exact words.) This woman probably doesn't own her own hammer, let alone an air compressor and 4 different pneumatic fastening tools. More to the point she isn't INTERESTED in house building. She didn't spend weekends as a child sweeping out houses being built by her father, she didn't take drafting in high school and college, hasn't read Fine Homebuilding for decades, or watched This Old House, studied the Architectural Graphic Standards book, and renovated and expanded another house already. Anyway, there's a risk that my story might come across with the wrong point. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean any woman can build a house by herself. If my feminist mother read that she'd have a fit. So you see my dilemma. If I say stuff like that then I'm elitist or a traitor to my sex or just stuck up. But you guys know what I mean. House building is dangerous and complicated and a lot of hard work. I knew when I started that I have a low skill level, that I would make a lot of mistakes and I was prepared for that. I took my time and just solved the problems as they came up. Most people get really frustrated doing things they aren't good at. I don't want to be a promoter of that situation, and the alternative is to sound like I'm bragging how great I am when I know I'm nothing of the sort. No thanks.
I like it, i want one. After the hurricane Lowes came out with a "katrina Cottage" that was real close to what you have
Did you just compare my $150 per square foot house to a mobile home?! In the "What makes a FHB house vs. a cheap one" thread? Ouch! :-)
no not that katina cottage, Lowes had a floor plan just like yourshttp://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=pg&p=2006_landing/Katrina_Cottage/KC_697.htmlEdited 9/8/2009 2:59 pm by brownbagg
Edited 9/8/2009 3:00 pm by brownbagg
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A Katrina cottage should have a hip roof, not gable ends like the one pictured. Less likely to lose a roof that way.
I think hurricane house should have almost flat roofs like no more than 2 /12. and like you said hip all the way around. I really like that round house in the other tread. that way the DDW cannot back me into a corner
Oh, that's cute! Complicated though. So many ways for the roof to leak.And compared to my house it's HUGE! Almost 4 times the size of my house. That cottage is 24'x33.5' with practically 740 sq ft of living space. The outside dimensions of my house are 12'x18' with a 15'x24' roof footprint, measuring on the inside it's under 190 square feet of conditioned space.The Katrina cottage is a much more feasible solution for people that live in public.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=pg&p=2006_landing/Katrina_Cottage/KC_308.htmlis this better
I'll be in Gulfport working off of Exit 28 on some military housing. Should be there for this week and next at least.
If you feel like meeting, e-mail me at: [email protected]
Staying at Sun Suites on 49. Any one else in the area feel free to holler and we'll meet up. Or not.
She didn't spend weekends as a child sweeping out houses being built by her father
My daughter grew up helping me on construction sites. People accused me of working her too hard, but I told her, If you want to come to work with me, you'll have to work. No play on Dad's jobsites. She told me the first time she saw a drywall contractor's helper mixing mud, she thought, Hey, that's my job! She was so used to being the one to do that for me, and a myriad of other jobs too.
She's married now and lives in Montana, working as a bank teller. She's not exactly tiny, but she's always been a small girl. She recently signed up as a volunteer on a local community building remodel. She tells how the local guys were getting worn out trying to take the old subfloor up. She finally got tired of watching, so she told 'em Step aside and let me have a go at it. She says she didn't stop 'til she had the whole thing up, and the local boys were blown away.
"My dad's a contractor", was her explanation.
So you see why I'm so proud of her - not only did she learn to work on the jobsite, she learned her story telling there too! =)View Image bakersfieldremodel.com