I was thinking about the rough door opening for the french door question and thought he might have a second set of trimmers already there, but the more i try and recall the less sure i am is it over 6′ or is it more than that?
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
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Replies
I do anything over 4' with doubles.
I know I'm crazy, but I like to stack up around the doors. Like 3 or 4 on a side. I hate it when the wall shakes when someone slams the door.
CurlyHand Hewn Restorations Inc.
Restoring the past for the future.
I think it was ranging from 70" to 72"
I also think that Simpson makes a piece of hardware for something like this but that it has to be fastened in with no envelope of sheathing or SR already in place.
Excellence is its own reward!
OK I've used the simpson piece where there was no room for trimmers on a header for a door. I asked this because the guy asking about what to do for his rough opening for french door might want to see if there is already 2 trimmers in his existing opening, if so he could remove one set of trimmers and replace with thinner trimmer. i would also add simpson piece if possible.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
I'm finishing up on a garage that will have an 8'x16' door in the gable end. The engineer spec'd a single trimmer with 3 kings per side. When I asked why just one trimmer he showed me his calculations and said based on the loading, one was all I needed.
Opening in gable walls rarely carry much load from above. Here in MA my local inspector who is a #### on most things, will allow a double 2x4 header on the flat in gable ends for most windows and doors.
Other than that, I usually double up the trimmers in anything over 72"
Here in LA it's always required at 8 ft and up. An engineer may spec it for narrower openings if the loads involved need it.
-- J.S.
Code here is more than 3' requires 1 jack stud, and more than 6' requires 2 jack studs each side.
What I use for a rule of thumb is to count the number of studs that are interrupted by the header, up to a maximum of three, because the load sharing grows by an algrithm instead of arithmically
So a 96" openning makes for six spacings or three jack studs on each side.
But if the wall is 2x6@24"oc then two on each side.
The 72" is ok at two per side..
Excellence is its own reward!
Alright what about strapping if I rember right we have to strap any headers 6' or longer with strap running from trimmer, header ,over wall and back down trimmer?
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Ok, call me an idiot, i can take it! I see the term "trimmer" and "jack stud" seemingly being used interchangeably here. What are the actual definitions?
Thanks!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
From HomeTime glossary: http://www.pbs.org/hometime/glossary/frame2.htm
Jack Stud Shorter studs that support the ends of a header, which in turn supports the load of the studs above the opening. Also called trimmers.
Trimmer Another name for jack stud.
From The Concise Dictionary of Construction (paperback):
Trimmer: A beam or joist to which a header is nailed in framing for a chimney, stairway, or other opening.
no definition given for Jack Stud
Also see "Anatomy of a Stud-Framed Wall" http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00023.asp
One of the first bigger jobs I did on my own about ten years ago involved putting a pair of LVL's where I cut through the back wall of a house to add on to the kitchen. 14'span, second story above, eave wall. I rested the LVLs on one trimmer per side. I sheetrocked everything, but the trimmer stuck out past the plane of the wall. This was not a problem, as it was going to die behind cabinets. But...later, I needed to snap a string line down one side of the wall about 3 inches down from the LVL, and the trimmer sticking out into the room was impeding my string, so not thinking, I kerfed the trimmer about 1/2" to let the string float through the kerf. Doh!
That took a little head scratching to fix...
Steve
My code book lists one parenthetically after the other as equivalents.
Never used such. Must be local thing..
Excellence is its own reward!
Our code is a little more complicated.... (NC/IRC). Depends on what is above the header... ie, just a ceiling and roof, or is it on the bottom floor of a 2 or 3 story house? Generally, for load bearing walls, 6' opening requires two jack studs (each side), unless there is another floor above, then add one to both sides of both the 4' and the 6' openings. BTW, I'd have to look it up, but I think our code book calls 'em jack studs - I just call 'em jacks...
Opening width
# of Jacks*
4'
1
6'
2
Opening Width
# of Jacks*
4'
2
6'
3
* = 2x4 jacks, each side of the header.
Not sure what it is for 3 story. Have to look it up. We don't see too much 3 story stuff around here. When it's a walkout basement, it's more often than not a 2x6 wall (otherwise most everything is 2x4 walls). 2x6 walls with 6' openings only need 2 jacks. Really though, it is usually all specified on the engineered floor plan unless it only needs 1 jack. (our plans must be engineered to get permitted) For LVL etc headers, you darn well better pay attention to the engineering sheets...
Really though, for the purposes of the forum, what matters is what the code says where the house is being built.
Well that code table makes just about everything in my county illegal by your county's standards. 3 jacks per side for a six-foot opening with one story above? That's pretty excessive.
Steve
Maybe the allowable grade of studs in that county falls between toothpicks and balsa wood??
Seriously, I'm sure we've all noticed the general increase (to seemingly ridiculous levels at times) in required lumber size and amount. I'm assuming part of this is the general CYA in every possible circumstance approach of codes, but I also assume that it is due to the general decline of lumber quality.
This observation is more meaningful looked at over the decades, not just a year or two. Am I right in my hunches?Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
It's the new state code that came into effect for anything permitted after 1/1/2003. It's the NC version of the IRC (international Residential Code 1 and 2 Family homes. I went to several code update classes. And yes, we didn't have to use 3 jacks on 6' openings before.Matt
Well, there will be plenty of backing for wide trim, and baseboards should have no trouble landing on a stud at the edge of a door, eh?
Seems pretty ridiculous to me though, especially since once you cover the wall with plywood, nailed 4" at the perimeter and 12" in the field you turn the whole darn wall into a giant shear panel anyway. There aren't too many walls built anymore that you couldn't just take the header away completely once it's sheathed, and not one thing would move.
Everthing is so over-engineered now. I'm currently working on a 150 yr old house that has 4x5 rafters on 36" centers for a 15 foot span. No sags or cracks. No ridge board either. Just pegged together at the top. This span today would need 2x10's at 19.2" centers.
Steve
I know what you mean. I've seen old houses that didn't even have headers, and they held up fine. It is usually the sinking foundations and rotten wood that does 'em wrong. Another contributing factor is that the lumber they got back then was better. You know when you pick up a 2x10 at the big box and it weight about 1.5 lbs, that it ain't the good old days... BTW - we only need to nail our "plywood" 6" OC on the edges. That's why people can't come here and ask code questions unless they get an answer from someone in their state, and even then it still needs to be checked with local municipalities, etc, since towns and counties have the right to increase the standards - or at least that is the way it is in NC.Matt