what should I ask the neighbor to do in detail to remedy the landscape issues?
lily88
| Posted in General Discussion on
I have posted the issue of neighbor’s landscap on the link below (there are some pictures to show the problem).
http://forums.finehomebuilding.com/breaktime/general-discussion/does-neighbor-violate-some-rules-or-across-boundary-doing-landscape#comment-2250999
But I am not professional guy and I don’t know how they should remedy the issues. If they add a wood between the soil and the fence, is that OK to protect the fence?
Replies
lily
If you want to update your original post-add a comment in that post. Multiple posts do nothing but fragment the answers.
Best of luck.
Thanks. Got that.
I was afraid of the old post of me will be buried. Now the listing agent told me he the wood on the bottom of fence is "retaining wall". I just don't know how to reply him and what should I ask him to do to fix the landscaping problem...
lily
You can keep your post up close to the top by "bumping" it-posting to it.
Take this question over to it and keep all your posts pertaining to the original, in one place.
Realtor says...................
Get a survey done-find out officially who owns the fence. After that-beats me...........seems like someone shouldn't be able to compromise the bottom of fence boards that isn't on their property (if that's the case). Those boards will wick moisture constantly and even "treated" wood will rot given the right conditions. Keeping a coating on them will be next to impossible as the moisture will push it off.
Thanks. I will need pay around $1000 to do the survey....
The quote come back and the price is so high. ...
Maybe I will do the survey to learn about the boundary and whoes property the fence is.
But some of the surveyors told me if the neighbor don't allow surveyor to enter their yard, they cannot. However some of surveyors think entry is no problem. It is really confusing.....
Lily
While a survey is costly, there's not much in the line of legal recourse. If you could find a boundery "Pin" you might think that's the line................often utulity poles-phone line "posts" etc are located on the line-but without verified legal boundery reference-you'll probably be S.O.L
Unless you are on bad terms with your neighbor(s) I wouldn't think they would have a problem with a surveyor walking on their property. If they are hesitant remind them that the survey will identify the property line for them too....and you are paying for it. Sometimes the surveyor will want you to tell the neighbor(s) that a survey is going to be done and sometimes the surveyor will notify the neighbor(s) themselves or do it only if the neighbor is home when the survey is being done. Surveyors are doing this all the time and probably run into different situations which they have to deal with. The survey isn't inexpensive but could save you major headaches in the future including selling your property.
One other thought, ask the Realtor to help pay for the survey. The results of the survey may or may not be favorable to his/her ability to easliy sell the property. If it turns out that the landscaping work was done on your propery then it would be to his/her benefit to have you as a friendly, cooperative neighbor.
After you do the survey check the Adverse Possession Law in your state.
Does the surveyor offten make error in surveying?
The surveyor finished his job today. He told us the fence is on just on the property line. But I doubt it, because:
1: He told me if the property line is inside the yard of the neighbor. He will need to get into their yard. I found them entering the neibor's yard for a long time.
2: When I come out of my home and asked the surveyor the result, the neighbor and their listing agent looked very happy and they have already known the result before I know it. That mean they stayed with the surveyor when they are in their yard.
3: My house's ex- owner told us that fence was built by her, and the fence was hers and now mine. She also told me she buit the fence in her property, and away from the property line. I can not find any reason she will lie to me.
4: Also, in the pincutres below (took from front of yard), the 1st, and 2nd pink stakes are NOT in line with the blue pole (we put the blue pole along with the fence that we are concerned). We moved the blue pole from front of the fenct to the end of the fence, it always on the right side of the 2 pink stakes. That means the fence is in parallel with the 2 pink stakes. But the surveyor told us the fence is in a same line with the 2pink stakes.
Does surveyor offten make mistakes in surveying? Should I find another surveyor to repeat the survey? If the second surveyor got diffenrent result, should I pay to the first surveyor (I have paid him the retainer money)?
Survey
If the surveyor put their certification stamp on the survey then you should feel comfortable accepting and paying for it. A licensed surveyor has a legal liability to perform an accurate survey.....his reputation and license depend on it. When the previous owner of your house had the fence put up how was the property line determined? Was there a physical survey done or was it an approximated survey based on plot plans or bank type surveys? I couldn't tell from the picture where the property line actually is. If the fence is right on the line and the neighbor has banked the dirt against it you can request that the dirt be removed as it will eventually rot your fence. Also, when the people that purchase your neighbor's home have an inspection done the inspector should notify them of the dirt/fence situation and the potential problem. I wouldn't make any assumptions about what they seemed happy about.....neither may know all the laws concerning real estate. Have you talked your neighbor and realtor concerning the results of the survey? If they are unwilling to do anything you may have to consider taking legal action which would be a potentional problem for them in trying to sell the house.
The neighbor and listing agent lied again and again to me...
Although my exowner told us the fence was built after 2002, and it is our property. The neighbor insisted the fence was built at around 1992. Even we find the google map that shows in 2000, there was no fence there. The neighbor still insisted that.
The listing agent told me more than one times they will fix the problem, but they just covered the problem by using some cheap tricks that make the buyer 's inspector cannot easily to find the problem. But problem still here.
All what they did , just to save the several hundred money that should use to built the retaining wall for their landscaping project, even they can earn profit about $400,000 by selling their house.(the house price is much higher than that when they bought it)
That is why I have no choice and just to do the survey.
Before surveying, the surveyor told me if the boundary is in the neighbor's yard, he need to enter into neighbor's yard. And he really did enter into their yard and stayed there for long time .I didn't follow him to enter the neighbor 's yard. When he come out and I asked him, he told me the property line is just on the fence. (the neighbor got to know the news before than me, that is odd too....) .
If the property line is on the fence, why he need to enter and stay in neighbor's yard for so long???Do you think this is suspicious？？？
And what he told us is contradictory with the ex owner have told us.-- the ex owner are very sure the fence is in our property...
My picture maybe too big size, and I will change that and upload it again
I also asked several surveyors. They replied me if
if the property line is on the fence, they have no need to enter the neighbor's yard.
But my surveyor entered and stayed in neighbor for long time.. then he told me the property line is on the fence, not in the neighbor's yard...
Survey
Without seeing the property layout and fences I don't know how a surveyor could tell you where a surveyor would have to walk to do the survey. If you told the other surveyor that the fence was on the property line then the survey might be able to be done without going into the neighbor's yard....but without a certified survey report you can't be 100% sure that the fence is on the property line.
Find out from the previous owner how the property line was determined when the fence was put up. If they said that a survey was done get the certified report. If the previous owner had a certified survey report and it differs from your report then one of them made a mistake.
When your surveyor started the survey he did not know where the property line was and might have to enter your neighbor's yard to do his surveying. Even if you told the surveyor where the previous owner of your house believed the property line to be the surveyor should disregard that information and walk where ever he had to to perform his survey.
I wouldn't be concerned if the surveyor told your neighbor where the property line was as he was putting in the stakes. Your neighbor can see where the survey stakes are. If the surveyor wasn't nice to your neighbor your neighbor could deny the surveyor access to his yard. They could have been talking about anything and if the surveyor was rude to your neighbor your neighbor could make the surveyor's job difficult.
Thanks. But after survey, the surveyor even don't want to
give us a map. That is weird.
There is some encroachment were found in the front of yard (the neighbor encroach into our property in the front yard.), and according to the our state law, he should draw a map and record in county. He seems don't want to record the neighbor's encroachment to us....
He just told us if we insisted he can provide the map to us. and he suggest not to draw the encroachment on the map becasue he think the neighbor will change that....That is very weird. Looks like he is hired by our neighbor not us.
BTW, I emailed to him about the map, he didn't reply me.
We have to find a way to measure it by our self (my husband bought a tool from webside) to check the result that the surveyor told us..
Information
What city and state do you live in?
Has the surveyor given a certified survey report to you? Have you paid the surveyor?
what is a certified survey report?
Does a certified survey report mean a map with the surveyor's signature??
I am in WA...Do you know the rule here?
Certified Report
A certified survey should state that it is a Certified Survey and have the surveyor's seal and signature.
The surveyor and real estate agent are both licensed. If they are not conducting themselves according to the rules of their licenses you can report them to their respective licensing authorities. I don't know the rules of WA but will help you find them if you feel that the surveyor and/or real estate agent are not acting properly.
I got the PDF map from surveyor. Have a question about it...
In the pdf survey map, he wrote the words like these below. Are these words normal for a survey report map? He didn't ask me to give him a title report before the survey...
"This survey does not purport to show all easements, restrictions, conditions or reservations that may be disclosed by a title report. A title report was not made available to the surveyor at the time of the survey."
Thanks
I'm guessing that's fairly standard language.
I know this is against your nature, and you may have already burned this bridge, but have you considered actually being friendly to your neighbor and talking this over??
YOu don't know what try we have done....
We though this neighbor are friendly before. And we tried to discuss with them friendly. But what we thought is wrong.
Because they have moved out, we emailed to them, called to them. They don't given any reply. Just ignore us.
When we meet their listing agent, he told me they can do everything they want, becuse the fence is none of my business.
Bur Later, I got to know from my house ex owner, the fence is ours, not theirs.!!! They can lie to me so shamelessly maybe they thought I am weak and too nice person that cannot fight with them...
Then later, when I and my husband walked out and met the neighbor on Sundy, we tried to talk with them friendly. The neighbor just looks very unhappy. He even don't want talk any more about the details about the error they have made.
The neighbor and his listing agent's attitude made me to realize we have to hire a surveyor....
What kind of the neighbor and his listing agent's nature are do you think? Selfish? shameless？hypocritical？
It's not just the surveyor the neighbor and the agent. It's the whole world that is against you. We are all in on it be afraid be very afraid.
Do you think the 3-4guys can represent the whole world ?
That is your logic. Not mine...
If you met neighbor like this,and you tried your best to communicate with them and spend much money to do the survey, there is no any change, just get empty promise “ we will fix that ”, and it is already more than 2 weeks. Their house will be listed on market on middle of May.. Do you think the only person should be complained is your self?
By the way being right has absolutely nothing to do with winning a dispute. If you were married to a woman you would already know this
how much are you going to spend in time money and aggravation and possible adverse health effects of stress and worry to try to solve a problem that MAY occur at some undetermined time in the future when you may or May not be living in this house and may not even be alive?
The fence will go down very quickly if they don't fix ....
I guess the neighbor plan to run away by selling his house to a new buyer recently, and throwing the issues to us and the new owner. Don't you think this is a very contemptible way?
The only chance that can push them to fix it is if the issues impact their selling of the house, like something they have to disclose in their selling. That is why I do these before they listed their house...
Fence
When a potential buyer has an inspection done the inspector should bring the dirt against the fence situation to their attention. The potential buyer would then address the situation with the seller. If I were in your position I would show the certified survey report to your current neighbors and real estate agent and let them know that if the dirt against the fence is not fixed then you will begin legal proceedings....this should hamper their effort to sell the house. i would also tell the real estate agent that you will report them to their licensing auhority. I would give them an opportunity to correct the situation before taking any legal action but let them know that you know what your options are.
Thanks. They added a wood between the dirt and fence..
but nothting can hold the wood itself, and the pressure of dirt and wood still is on the fence . And the fence is still used as retaining wall.
I agree with you I need let them know what options I have. I am preparing a certified mail now and if their promise would happen even when their house list on market. I will send the certified mail to them...
Make sure you get that Certified Survey. It will be the legal document that shows where the property line is.
Keep in mind that pretty much every state has some sort of law about "adverse possession", meaning (in part) that once a boundary has been assumed to be correct (no one challenged it) for some period of years it in fact becomes "correct", even though it may not correspond to the legal description of the property.
The details vary greatly from state to state, but likely any property boundary that's been "assumed" for more than 10 years or so is now "the law".
Adverse Possession
Some of the info isn't 100% clear but it appears that the fence is right on the property line and the neighbor moving out has had lanscaping work done which resulted in the grade in their yard being raised and now resting against the the fence owned by Lilly88. Is that your understanding too? I had adverse possession papers served on my 2 abutting neighbors....one had done landscaping that extended onto my property and the other had their fence erected on my property. One neighbor got really mad when the process server served the legal documents. I was the one that had to pay the surveyor and the lawyer....what's wrong with this picture? If I had known that the neighbor was going to get mad at me for protecting all of us I would have just told him to move his landscaping off of my property. No good deed goes unpunished.
Today neighbor did some remedy, but still 2 problems...
After I insisted to ask neighbor not to make the fence as their landscape job's retaining wall, Surpirsling me, today neighbor's landscaper did some remedy. They added a long wood along the fence and keep about 2inch distance with the fence. The landscaper told me they used the rebars to hold the wood. (see the remedy in the 1,2 pictues)
But I found 2 issues:
1: There are a brick between the wood and the fence. I asked the listing agent to remove the brick to see whether the wood can stand by its self. He rejected strongly at first. After I insisted that, he unhappily removed the brick. The wood don't fall down at that time. I don't know how deep they made the rebar into the ground. And I just am a little worried that whether the remedy like this can hold the wood and the soil firmly.....
2: From the surface, the wood seems having blocked the soil. But indeed, the bottom of these woods don't touch with the ground. There is a space between the bottom of woods and the ground. Some is 2-3inch high space, some is 5--6inch high space. (it can be found from my yard side , pls see it in the 3rd picture). I doubt the soil will come across from the bottom of the wood and pile against the fence again in the future ... Will the space between bottom of wood and ground be a big issue?
You know, that's just a fence, not Windsor Castle. And from the looks of it it's already about half rotten. Some time in the next 10-20 years it will need to be replaced, regardless. It's nice that they're installing the board and spacers, but to some degree you just need to take your lumps and forget about it.
They just added wood and rebar, not board and spacers...
I don't know what do you mean borad and spacers???
The rotten part of the fence is shaped because the soil from their side piled on the fence in the past. Other part of the fence was in good shape.
Do you think the wood will block the soil when the bottom of the wood is 2-6inch away from the surface of ground?
Landscaping
At this point I would call your town building inspector and ask him/her to come to your house and tell you if what your neighbor has done is acceptable as far as the building codes are concerned.
do I have the right ask the city inspector to inspect neighbor?
Thanks. Do you think I have the right to ask the city inspector to inspect the neighbor's landscape project?
I am just a little confused that when I called to a city engineer and a code officer before, they told me what the neighbor have done to the fence was not right. but they also told me the our city's code or permit rule is just about 4 feet or more grade change, or more than 50 cubic yards change. They told me if I cannot approve the neighbor have changed more than 50 cubic yard or the grade change is only 2-3feet, there is none of business of city inspection and permit....
I don't know whether they are right or not...
Now I just want to finish the dispute with them by sending...
I just feel tired with them. I have a plan to send them a certified mai.
In the mail, I want to ask them to make sure what they have done to the landscaping and grade change and the wood wall, etc,...is safe and would not make damage to the fence, our property and their buyer. And I suggest them to disclose the change detail of landscape to their buyer when they list the house. If there will be damage brought by the landscape project, their buyer and us have right to ask them to pay for it.
Do you agree with that I send the mail to them? Don't know what is your attorney send to your neighbor....
Building Inspector
What you want the building inspector to tell you is whether or not what your neighbor has done is code compliant.
what is the usage of the bricks do you think?
There is a brick between the fence and the wood . Do you think I should leave it alone? Why?
what is the usage of the bricks do you think?
Do you mean leave the brick between the fence and the wood alone? Why?
You better go spend another $1,000 on a title search so you can protect your already rotten fence from rotting. Has your neighbor ever mentioned having you arrested for repeatedly trespassing???? It is illegal for you to be on their property taking pictures?????