Ok,
Talking to a guy who is job hunting. 38yo,Clean cut, presentable truck, all his own tools. He is an accomplished framer and trimmer. good with stairs. Not so good with drywall. He can and has run many small to med. sized additions and alterations. You could send him anywhere to work without having to worry about the customer.
Now the Question. Working on both sides of the Delaware River, into the Far hills and even Morristown areas of New Jersey and into Bucks county on the P.A side, What would he be worth to you if you need such a guy?
I’ve heard from $15.00 to $40.00 as an employee and would like to narrow it down.
Thanks
Replies
here in Pgh ....
most places would start him out at $15 ....
and bump up to $18 pretty quick. Or just start at $18 ... depending how loudly he asked for it at the interview.
Probably top out at $20 as a lead carp ....
maybe upwards of $25 as en extablished lead running a crew.
$40? No way as an employee. Even $25 is pushing it.
as a sub ... sure ... $40 ... $50 .... if he was really good.
although there are tons of places around that think $25 is good sub money ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Thanks Jeff,
I know what you mean about people thinking $25.00 an hour is good sub money. When I last worked for someone else I was getting $20.00 an hour. I had also been there for a while and operated pretty much independantly.
where does this guy live ?
carpenter in transition
I've seen what a good craftsman can accomplish and I'll say that even at $50, you guys are way underpaid!!!
I'm in technology and there are people making $100/hr ($200/hr in the NYC area) and #### their way thru projects and never deliver anything. When they do, it's software that is of such low quality that I sure wouldn't want to put it in something like a pacemaker. It's really sad. I try to deliver quality but there are so many hacks out there that are willing to bid and deliver crap in less than a 1/3 of the time for 1/3 the price...and it's the fault of the managers who give them the contracts because they don't take the time to understand what is quality and what isn't.
Like I said, I think you craftsmen are truly underpaid for what you do...I do all my own home renovation work and know exactly how hard it can be.
Damn straight!
"It's really sad......there are so many hacks out there that are willing to bid and deliver crap in less than a 1/3 of the time for 1/3 the price..."
Thang,
Well said. Honestly. I can't tell you how many people I meet (white collar professionals) who say they would be willing to spend an "extra 10% to 20%" for first class work vs. run of the mill hack type stuff.
I'm like (shaking my head) , ..... It costs more than that to go from one [extreme] to the other.... So they wind up with a 20/20 house they think every body else thinks looks great. (and I'm sure a lot do), Since there is no visual difference (LOL)between natural stone and Formica, wood vs vinyl, and faux plants vs real.
Each to his own.
Jon
I think $15 an hour would be an insult if he is as skilled as he says he is. With those kind of skills, if he truly has them, he won't work for less than $18-$20 unless he has been eating nothing but rice for a month. A union carp here in MO scales at $25.51 (minus a few for union dues and what not)...and most of those guys don't have the skills this guy has.
Here at the tip of Cape Cod I'd start you at 25 / hour and we could get to 40 in a year or two if you can consistently produce.
I'm not familier with wage rates in that area, but seems to me if you can afford $40.00 an hour then you should be paying 20 to 25 and offering some benefits. $15.00 an hour (about $2,500) buys a lot of benefits.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Do I know you? I'm in the same area working mostly in south Jersey but based out of Bucks. I'm not one to hide much, so I'm going to break down what I know and get paid. I do mostly bath and kitchen remodels. I do ALL the work, from stud to trim. Tear out, plumbing, electrical, any framing, drywall, mud, tile, cabinets, etc. I try to stay away from paint, too boring. I'll go as deep in the ground as you want, but stay off of roofs. I make $21.00 hr., on the books w/ benny's and holiday, vacation time. I'm 30 w/ 8 yrs. experience. I pay the bills, but it helps having a wife who makes twice as much.
Edited 6/28/2004 10:16 pm ET by FLIPMO82
my buddy works for a bigger company in your area ,Turner, he told me he would hire me for $25.00 an hour and him about the same age as your guy.
personally id try him at at a little lower than you would normally at first and if he works out id pay him what hes worth.
Just another day in paradise
G.E. Ely Construction
Ocracoke NC
I'm in podunk rural N. FL and I can't hire a good carp at $15... and keep him. It's at least $18. here. Lot of builders going to Mexicans that work cheap here. With his exp., tools, good truck, run jobs for you... he'd make $20.-$25. round here easy. Of course, most guys that are any good migrate to bigger cities where they can make more than in podunk.
I'm in the same market as you. $15/hr. doesn't pass the laugh test around here for a skilled carpenter. As an employee, I would say $$21-$25/ hr. depending on his skill. More if he runs a crew.
I would say $$21-$25/ hr. depending on his skill.
ditto
Thats what I was thinking. But the area has wild salary swings. I had one or two guys tell me their top guy gets $16.00 but I can't believe that.
When I left Bucks/Montgomery/Berks/Lehigh a little over ten yrs. ago..I was getting 27.00 for me and my truck/tools. Then I went south to NC Mtns..knew not a soul..dropped to 18.00..for awhile. Climbed up to 30.00 and +..but I was a sub, not an employee.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I'm in lehigh county. Have always traveled to N.J. A few years ago (5 maybe 6)I was making $22.00 and looking to work closer to home. I had an interview with one of the better known Local Builders. Starts with a B. Anyway he told me I was just what he was looking for. Couldn't wait for me to start. I was gonna be a great addition to his team. Then he offered me $12.50 an hour. Me, my truck, my tools.
When I laughed out loud at him he told me his lead man had been there 12 years. Only made $14.00 an hour. Go figure. Of course I told him to " Go play hide and go F### Himself"
Oh well
$15/hr. doesn't pass the laugh test around here for a skilled carpenter
Sadly, $15 for "skilled, with own tools, and reliable transporation" is what is being offered around my part of Central Texas. There are carpenters getting more--they are not leaving those jobs, either.
With the qualifications stated, in my neck of hte woods he'd be a sub and you'd either pay his rate or get someone cheaper.
Know of a guy whose boss still wants him to hire a "good" trim carpenter, but will only pay $12/hr. Only the boss is surprised by the applicants who stay after hearing that . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
That's a shame... I pay my helper $15/hr. Around here (Philadelphia, PA), a top notch carpenter working as a sub can make $30-$35/hr. A really good carpenter as an employee should be able to get $25/hr. easily. The only reason I said $21-$25 for this guy is that it sounds like he is partially lacking a few skills.
Edited 6/29/2004 6:49 pm ET by Nick Pitz
I don't know I would say he is lacking a few skills. I have never considered Drywall to be a Carpenter Skill.
I wasn't trying to insult the guy. I think it depends on your perspective. On my jobs, we (carpenters) do everything from foundation layout to final punch list, with the exception of the subtrades. I normally hang my own drywall and sub the finishing if it's a big enough area. If not, I'll finish it myself. Naturally, I'm likely to pay more for a guy who has a broader range of skills. That being said, a carpenter who is both a good framer and a good finish carpenter is valuable in and of itself.
Incidentally, I am just west of the city in Montgomery County.
Cap
Are you guys that far out in the booneys?
I was making $850 a week(salary) with small amount of benny's, left the job to go work in a high end cabinet shop, started out at quit a bit less, I am darn near back where I was, but a lot happier.
I do know that there are a lot of good carps making quit a bit less, the latino labor force I'm sure has something to do with that.
Know of a guy whose boss still wants him to hire a "good" trim carpenter, but will only pay $12/hr
That does seem to be the norm though.
Doug
Are you guys that far out in the booneys?
It's a whole combination of things. We have a "lopsided" labor market (and percieved labor market) with 40K college students around. While college students ought not be affecting the "experienced" labor market, they do overall. Throw in a cost of living that is about 85% of Austin or Houston, that also is a factor. The odd thing is that getting further "away" (like Rockdale or Hempstead) the wages go back up a bit, due to a lack of supply of skilled help.
Now, another factor has to be the large number of carp subs in town, too. They outnumber "hired" carps by a big factor.
Probably some bias towards carpentry as a "low skilled" skilled trade, too. Journeyman electrician or plumber with experience has no trouble getting hired around here at $18/22/hr.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
When you bid your jobs, bid with knowledge & "PRIDE", and keep it so there will be enough pride to go around for the "whole CREW", aand the reputation of the trades.
In the old Days, a Carpenter was...........................?
Now a days, a carpenter is ....................................?
In the future, a carpenter will ...............................?
How close are you to the City Nick? I was all the way down Ogontz Ave tonight. My what a beautiful area.
I was all the way down Ogontz Ave tonight.
Not with your tools, I hope! That place is quite a _hit hole, like something out of a 3rd world country.
Been to the armory down there. It felt like Ft. Apache.
Can't believe there's a university up on the hill and they pay thru the nose to go there.
BTW, any of you people around Phila. ever here of a company named RG Bortz? If so, what do you know about them? Thanks.
Dan
Edited 6/30/2004 7:25 am ET by Dan019
No, not with my tools. Heard of RG Bortz, But nothing about them.
Ogontz at Champlots Ave. Where I aspire to live.
It really depends upon how much equipment you bring in addition to your skill,I have a highly skilled helper,I consider a craftsman,who has his own hand tools,He gets$11 per hr where some craftsmen here (houston) get 16 to 20 because he does a mixture of work,(labor& artisan work)
Edited 7/11/2004 12:15 pm ET by mapache
At risk of sounding like a smart aleck, how much do you think you can afford to pay him. If he has the skills that he says, at what rate would you bill or bid his work at?
now add in your overhead and profit as a minus to work out what is left for him. Or just ask him what it will take to hire him for a trial period. He may want to check you out as much as you will be checking him. The perceived area average includes lots of situations that either he or you would not be at all happy about. You have to try and see what he is really capable of. Good luck
Dan
Keep him in the $16-$18 range to start, then base his 6 month review on his output and quality to raise it or lower it. - Prota
what to pay someone is always wide open... skills, tools, people skill, truck, all have a huge part in it... but really matters is production...you can take 2 guys with the same skill level and one guy can do 2x the work of the other guy... so much effects the output of a person... mood, family situation, desire to work, organizational skills...
I always start someone on the low side... tell them upfront... if you do what you say you can do in the amount of time we have to do it in... then I'll pay you a bonus... if you drag this thing out then we both lose.... I hate being "tight" and i never want to cheat anyone on their labor... but the fact is this guy has to make you money he has to be a profit center no matter how skilled he is if he doesn't produce X amount of income for you... you can't afford him if he was $5.00 an hour...
skilled labor is not a job you can teach someone to do in less than 3 days... (seems to be the standard around here)
pony
In Denver, Colorado a guy with tools, truck and can run jobs is going to get $35.00/hr.
He's paying for the truck, depreciation, gas, maint., insurance, tool costs, and can be on the job alone if need be wearing HIS clothes, boots, etc.
Add to that what he pays for federal and state taxes, and the big laugher--Social Security (with so called disability). So what does he net? $15.00 an hour tops.
He works in the cold, rain, mud and doesn't mess up the client's house. Bargain time because you keep all the rest! Tyr
uhh ...
that guy's not an employee.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Are you asking what he is worth or how much you can get away with paying him?