Replies

1. 
   popawheelie | Dec 22, 2009 08:36pm | #1

   I would second to never call anyone who isn't absolutely needed. You have to figure people come in contact with human fecies every day. There own. Wash your hands and you're good to go.

2. 
   owmythumb2 | Dec 23, 2009 07:18am | #2

   I worked in the restoration field for 14 years. The reason the hygienist asked for the floor and baseboards to be replaced is that the wood is porous and you can never get all the bacteria out without some ridiculous effort (more than ripping it out). From a liability standpoint, nobody would stand behind any other method.

   Depending on the wall material, drywall or plaster should also be taken out just above the level of where the moisture wicked up to. Then the wall cavity should be disinfected.

   As far as time and humidity go there is not much difference between "new and wet sewage" or "old and dry sewage"

3. 
   JimB | Dec 23, 2009 10:31am | #3

   I'll say it: "Let it dry
   I'll say it: "Let it dry out" (I'm not an IH). There's a reason that diseases associated with sewage are referred to as "water-borne disease." Few organisms associated with sewage live long in a dry environment. CDC recommendations for flood cleanup say to clean wood surfaces with hot water and detergent.

   Fear of liability can be a powerful motivator for going beyond the reasonable. Think about what gets tracked onto a floor everyday.

   On the other hand, are you sure that the floor is really dry under the parquet?

1. 
   popawheelie | Dec 23, 2009 10:58am | #4

   I think once you get certain people involved it is out of your hands.

   The word "liability" and "insurance" are much of the time not based on what is practical or right.

   What if, is a question that comes up and opens a whole can of worms. A big can in this case.

   If insurance is covering this the clients are going to want it as good or better. That most likely means new floors.

   I agree with owmythumb2 assesment of the overal situation.

   You have to be able to stand behind it.

4. 
   DanH | Dec 23, 2009 11:00am | #5

   I think you'll get a
   I think you'll get a "definite maybe" about this stuff. Eventually, sewage organisms do die off or get eaten by other organisms, but the range of time it takes for that is probably in the order of years rather than months, and depends a lot on conditions.

   On the other hand, stuff that's below the flooring isn't going to hurt you so long as it doesn't escape (or cause odors to escape). And there's the whole issue as to how much "sewage" was in this "sewage" -- most sewage is fairly dilute, and it becomes even more dilute in storm-generated flooding scenarios.

1. 
   popawheelie | Dec 23, 2009 11:49am | #6

   I agree Dan. But the sewage or organisms are only part of the problem.

   Most people will take this situation and try to exstract as much out of it a possible.

   Peoples greed comes into play and it is a powerfull force.

1. 
   DanH | Dec 23, 2009 12:47pm | #7

   In a commercial situation (and especially if the structure is a residential apartment) the liability issue looms large. The danger is not so much that the situation will lead to illness as it is that someone will take ill while living there and blame it on the flooding. This is only human nature -- to seek to place blame -- and it's really that human nature more than avarice that's at work.

   If it were my personal property -- to be occupied by myself and my family -- I'd likely give it one more once-over with some sort of bio-cide and then (after drying some more) refinish it and forget about it.

   If it were, say, a retail space, I'd be inclined to do the same, though I'd think a little harder about it.

   But if it's an apartment and I was the apartment owner I'd probably tear out the flooring and a foot of wallboard and do it "right".

1. 
   popawheelie | Dec 23, 2009 03:10pm | #8

   I agree. It's not straight
   I agree. It's not straight out and out greed. Very few people will say outsight that they want as much as they can squeeze out of it.

   But very few people will just do what they would do if they were paying for it. If someone else is paying for it you can bet most people are going to pad it. Even a little.

   People will see what their neighbors are going to do and what their hairstylist says.

   They will say they just wnat it the way it was before but usually in the end that means the whole kit and kabootle.

   Very few people will say just dry it out, spay some bio-cide, and refinish it. Most people are going to follow the crowd.

   The way you would handle it for your family is probably the exception.

2. 
   Scott | Dec 24, 2009 12:28am | #9

   >>>I think you'll get a
   >>>I think you'll get a "definite maybe" about this stuff. Eventually, sewage organisms do die off or get eaten by other organisms, but the range of time it takes for that is probably in the order of years rather than months, and depends a lot on conditions.

   Yeah, the organisms will be gone, or at least dormant, but all the organic (fecal) matter that has soaked into the building materials will remain. If it were my place, insurance or not, I would rip out the trim and flooring, cut back the drywall, clean with detergent and bleach, then replace it all.

   Yuck. No fun at all, but it should be done.

1. 
   BudFox2 | Jan 04, 2010 12:27am | #10

   Thanks everyone. Sorry I was MIA, I forgot to turn on e-mail notification and got too busy enjoying the holidays.

   I think definite maybe sums it up: sounds like this protocol is not a total sham, could be overkill, but there are a lot of people involved and the liability genie is definitely out of the bottle. One of the ironies here is that the existing parquet is from the 40s and I doubt that any replacement is going to be better than what is currently there.

1. 
   junkhound | Jan 04, 2010 09:30am | #11

   All I know is how Pop used to handle sewer backups. They would happen once every 2 years or so back in central IL.

   He'd let it drain back down, then send us kids down the basement to sweep and mop.

   Then, since there were others in the neighborhood that had similar backups, we found there were a few bucks to be made cleaning up for others. Could have gone on the 'dirty jobs' program.

   Dont think I ever got sickness of any type from doing those cleanups, some of which involved hauling capret outside and hosing it off.

   Worst was the ammonia smell from the final mopping.

   BTW, ever told about how early I learned about chloramines?? Pop did know not to mix bleach and ammonia,

   BTW2: if you want to break up a party or get guests to go home, sprinkle a little bleach ammonia mix onto the charcoal briquette grill when hot

   BTW3 NOBODY had drywall in basements in those days.

5. 
   IdahoDon | Jan 04, 2010 02:45pm | #12

   Flood guys will rip up and dry things, but if any mold starts they call in the mold remediation guys for a problem that would go away on it's own...then the mold guys see a few mouse droppings and call the biohazards guys and extermination guys (typically the sign to simply get a mousetrap and clean out the few turds, no?)

   "The guy who is good with a hammer thinks everything is a nail."