Quick question…
What do you use to paint over bare (just newly hung) drywall?
Primer? or Flat white paint?
I figured primer but someone recently suggested that it would be better to use regular flat white paint? Is this right?
Thanks in advance!
-Kacy
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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Replies
We use new construction primer. About 8 bucks a gallon and really soaks in. DanT
Prime first, then paint.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00154.asp
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/bh0012.asp
http://www.zinsser.com/subcat.asp?CategoryID=1
You should use drywall primer first. It can be tinted if you are using colors. It is often less expensive than paint and has properties that paint does not. Here is an except from The National Gypsum Company.
"It is recommended that the prepared surface be coated with a "drywall primer" prior to the application of final paint. See painting specification in this regard." This is an important step that should not be forgotten before final decoration. "Drywall primer" replaced the term "primer/sealer" throughout the revised document. The application of high quality, high solids drywall primer minimizes most decorating problems.
As defined in the recommendation, a drywall primer is a paint material specifically formulated to fill the pores and equalize the suction difference between gypsum board surface paper and the compound used on finished joints, angles, fastener heads and accessories, and over skim coatings.
http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resources/techtalk/revisiting.html
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Use good quality latex primer tinted in the direction of the finish color. If you do not prime, you will see every seam and float until you do break down and prime. Also, run your caulk, if the drywallers didn't, before you prime-it takes paint differently than the wall. You will be glad you did. good luck,
Thanks for the advice thus far! But just to clear up any confusion, we were always planning on doing a final finish painting in addition to the first coat (of primer or otherwise).
We're definitely not going to to just paint the colors on right over the bare drywall. I was just wondering what type of product would be the best to put on first. We wont be doing the final painting until we are closer to finishing up construction.
Several of your suggestions were good though! Thanks!
-Kacy
Edited 8/4/2005 10:38 am ET by kcmarie122
Any high build primer/sealer is the best to use. People have different favorites. You should also plan on painting with the finish color within a week of priming. While it's still better than no primer, once a primer cures, it starts to lose its advantages if you wait too long. It's for that reason that I still prime the pre-primed wood trim I get from the store.Another reason to use primer instead of paint as the first coat - primers provide a harder, more durable undercoat to the finish coat...this makes the finish coat more durable and resistant to chips/scratches...at least in my experience.
To clear up 2 of your misconceptions: adding colour to the prime coat means only adding 1/2 tint. Ask your paintshop for 1/2 tint, otherwise you won't see the next coat! Secondly, you'll more than likely be putting 2 topcoats on - there are always what my dad called 'holidays' - places where the topcoat was spread so thinly, or missed altogether, that the base coat shows thru. That's why the 2nd top coat. AND definitly sand between each coat, just lightly to remove the 'ropes', the lint, doghairs, and the dust, etc, that seems to adhere.ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Mek,
You mentioned caulking first? You'll have to help me out since I've never primed new construction walls before. So what exactly is supposed to be caulked?
Thanks!
You caulk all the seams between drywall and trim. This way you don't have any unsightly gaps. Paint and primer won't fill those gaps. You shouldn't caulk anything larger than 1/8 of an inch either. In those cases, I like to fill up the gaps with joint compound and then give it a top coat of a caulk.
Ok, I get it (about the caulking)! Yes, our trim will be painted but we are priming first. The trim hasn't even been put up yet. We are actually having a professional paint (spray) our trim and doors once it's been put up so we will double check and make sure that the caulking is included!! I highly doubt we would do a very good job! :)
Thanks everyone for all your suggestions!
-Kacy
Ideally, in new construction trim should never be installed until the final finish coat of paint is on and dry. The trim is primed/painted or stained/rubbed/topcoated before being put up. This way there is no caulking required.
Remember the words of a long-time poster here:
CAULKING IS NOT A PIECE OF TRIM!
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
So if they paint the trim before it goes up, then how do they repair all the nail holes in the trim?
We want the trim sprayed so shouldn't we wait to do the final finish coat after that? I'm open to either way. I just want to do it the right way!
Wont there be a chance of overspray that could mess up the final finish coat on the walls? And If we do the final coat before the trim is applied, how likely is it that the walls will get nicked up during trim and cabinet installation?
Just some of our thoughts and questions?
Thanks Dinosaur!
painting baseboards, ceiling trim etc is both easier and looks better when done before it's installed, like dinosaur said. once it's up, i patch the nail holes with a non-shrinking putty and using a plastic knife and or dry rag, i swipe the patch area clean so that there's no need to go back and sand. then quick, feathered touch-up paint.
are the drywall primers you guys recommend sandable? i find that sometimes irregularities in my patching can hide until i've primed everything one color, then they show up. it's great to be able to do a little more sanding at this point.
last night i was out of primer so i used some artist's gesso from my studio to prime the new wall. it does really well and is sandable, but costs more than 48 per gallon.
I always check my walls with a light held at an angle to highlight imperfections. It's best to finish the prep work before priming. The drywall primers I use can't be sanded. If you have large expansive walls, like in a cathedral ceiling, and plan to use a semi-gloss, the taping can telegraph through. Some of the guys here like using D-mix. You can search the archives for more info. I would think that you would want drywall primer over the gesso before painting. It will absorb paint differently than the paper on the drywall and that's the reason for using the primer. $48/gal. is a little steep for primer.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
that's exactly what i do- the sidelit thing for checking. it works great, but the room i'm working in now is bright in the daytime and i'm waiting until dark to do my plastering and jc'ing; i'm just getting tired and sloppy and have missed a few things with the 2 colors (drywall paper and white plaster or joint compound), plus all my scribbling, sketching, and notations on the drywall- LOL.
i agree that you want to get the patching and sanding done first, but i did like the sandability of the gesso when i found that i'd missed a few spots on what will be a feature wall with dramatic lighting, showing up any flaws.
Not to step on Dinosaur's answer, but I follow his method also. The trim work gets primed and one coat before installation, nail holes are filled, gaps caulked, and the final coat applied after installation. Not many painters spray the trim after it's up in my neck of the woods. Those of us in the business look for ways to cut down on extra labor. Having the walls painted and the trim prepared saves a lot on cutting in and makes for a neat job even before it is completed. It's rare that the walls get dinged up and a little touch up is easy when needed. There is no right or wrong way but labor is a big expense. Painting or staining trim is much easier on a bench and it keeps dirty fingerprints off the raw wood. Efficiency is the name of the game in producing an attractive product, getting the job done and keeping costs down. By the way, hand painting puts more product on the work than spraying and you don't have the extra work of masking off what you don't want painted.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Back when I was a kid, we used this stuff called 'Plastic Wood' which was all kinds of fun: smelled great (kinda like glue-sniffing) and it dried on your fingers and you had to peel it off with a razor blade. Plus you had to sand it after it hardened, and then finish over it and, and, and....
Now Minwax (among others) makes coloured wax filler crayons that you schmear into the nail holes after the finish paint/stain work is all done. A quick hard wipe with a rag and you'll have trouble finding it yourself 10 seconds later unless you stick your nose right up to the moulding....
You definitely do not want to be spraying any 'final finish coat' (or anything else!) on your trim once it's up on the wall. If you do it that way, you're going to have to mask everything else--walls, ceilings, floors, windows, doors, cats, dogs, and kids.... Your painter'd be there till next Christmas just masking and unmasking.
The only places you might need some touch-up paint are in joints between cuts where the end-grain of a piece of trim might show through. When doing stained trim, this is easy; we just dip a rag in a dish of stain kept handy for that, and daub the end grain gently after it's cut. For paint-grade work, the best procedure to follow will depend a lot on what the trim is made of--hardwood, softwood, mdf, or plastic....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Whatever you do, don't prime new wallbd with oil. It'll fuzz up something fierce and you won't want that.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
"For paint-grade work, the best procedure to follow will depend a lot on what the trim is made of--hardwood, softwood, mdf, or plastic...."
Ok, so we're doing a mix of MDF and wood? All MDF (base and window casing) except the top of the window casing which will be wood (5/4" x 6" which doesn't come in MDF, at least around here).
It will all be painted white.
So maybe we need to really think about getting all the painting done before the trim goes up? Hmmm...we've heard both sides now and we keep going back and forth. But we do want a nice clean look...
Just when you think you know what your going to do...
ditto ditto everyone who says do them separately- saves all the time you spend cutting in and edging twice (once on the wall and once on the trim)
edit to add, actually 4 cut-in if the trim is mounted before painting:
also at trim and ceiling (edge of trim and again at edge of ceiling)
Edited 8/8/2005 7:50 am ET by MSM
If you are doing a built up door and window casing like I think you are, some of the parts may need to be custom milled. In that case I would disagree with some of the posters here about pre painting. I do believe in prime and one coat prior to install, but a casing set up with several parts needs to be installed, caulked, then finish painted.
A quality painter should be able to efficiently mask off or cut in and make the transition look good.
I have had a couple painters let us install all trim in a room, sand the joints, fill holes, etc. and spray all subsequent coats. The results have always been wonderful. More labor? Maybe. Should you go this far? You probably don't have to. I think the most important thing is that your painter or you should consider caulking all joints and using spackle compound to fill the holes, then painting the final coat on everything. I honestly feel this is an excellent way to get long lasting results.
Just a little more than my 2 cents.
Edited to say: Sorry, I reread the original and realized you weren't asking about painting trim. My mistake. :)
Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Edited 8/6/2005 5:59 am ET by Hook
Yes, you should do all the painting before you put up the trim. For the head casings, that should not be a problem; you know how long they're going to be before you install them so pre-cut the pieces before painting.
The only place you're going to need to daub on any last-minute paint will be where you have scarf-joints between pieces of crown or base running the length of walls. Everything else you should be able to dry-fit and pre-cut without nailing it up.
If you're biscuiting the scarfs together, glue the biscuit into one piece first with some polyurethane glue. Then daub the end-grain on both pieces with your paint (I'm assuming you're using latex paint), blot dry and wait a few. Finally smear the naked half of the biscuit with a bit of glue and assemble the two pieces of moulding. Nail it to the wall.
You don't need a lot of paint to hide the joint if it's well fitted. And you don't need a lot of glue to hold biscuit-joints together, either. Take it easy so you don't get squeeze-out which you'll have to clean up later....
PS: You can make drying racks for all your painted moulding out of 1x3 and 2x4 scraps. Search the FHB archives for a TIPS & TECHNIQUES article I wrote a few years ago on how to do that (Sept 2002, FHB #149).
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
kc...I have done paint grade trim both ways being discussed
here....
I personally HATE painting and prefer to have the trim sprayed
on the primed walls....
it will give a finish without any brush strokes also...
painting trim before instalation,for me,is for small renovations and
when I can not avoid it...regards
If your trim will be painted, then you would caulk the trim-sheetrock joint. Obviously if your trim is stained the caulk is not needed.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Mek is confused.
Occasionally, you need some caulk at top edge of basebord to wall or at crown to cieling, but since you prime the drywall as soon as it is hung, before trimming the house out, you obviously can't caulk something that is not there yet. besides, the caulk adheres better to the primed surface than to bare drywall.
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All of our painters always prime first, then touch up and caulk before finishes
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have had a great deal of success using "First Coat" by USG. It is a specially formulated primer for drywall that 'seals' the paper sheet and mud to reduce the varied absorption rates between the paper coating and the mud for the finish coats.
With one coat of First Coat Primer I was able to paint with only one more (relatively thick) coat of Dutch Boy Interior Flat Latex (Vibrant Colors worked just as well as the Satin White). I would plan on painting 2 coats though, especially for estimating purposes, as the rock still sucked up more paint that i expected, but covereage was quite consistent.
A lot of the drywall I was painting was finished by yours truly, so I experimented with adding a few trowels of drywall mud (lightweight or finishing compound) to the First Coat Primer to somewhat texture the walls and hide any minor imperfections. It works relatively well and gives you a very faint "orange peely" effect (not remotely close to the texture of spray on mud, however).
Because the mud-paint mixture gets thicker than standard paint, make sure you use higher quality rollers -- the thicker the nap, the more the texture -- and clean roller screens. The thicker primer will collect hairs from the roller nap and small chips of paint from used, un-clean equipment. Once those imprefections are embedded with the primer-mud mixture, they are much harder to remove inconspicuously. (This advice goes for regular finish painting as well -- dirty, HEAVILY used equipment will simply give you a less quality finish in a variety of ways. It just depends on whether you really care that much.)
hope this helps.
jj
For my two cents worth, I vote with the people who said use primer especially formulated for drywall. I think PVA primer is one. Supposedly doesn't wet the paprer and cause bubbles, fuzzing, and such. I've had trouble in the past with painting over where I removed wallpaper and had the drywall paper blister. When I primed it first, I had no problems with blistering.
When painting over a wall that had wallpaper, I always use an oil based primer first. I use oil because a latex paint MAY reactivate any residual water-activated glue. My whole house was wallpapered. I hate wallpaper. I've been stripping, priming with oil base, and the painting with latex based paint.
Yeah, I asked about it on this very forum and one person said prime it with latex and another said oil; I did use oil and it actually flattened out the blisters that were there--saved me a lot of trouble (was afraid we'd have to cut out the affected parts and patch!).