Home Depot will come to your house and install an Andersen storm door. According to the ad I just received.
Actually they won’t install it, they will send someone else to do the work.
Personally I wouldn’t pick up and deliver the door, much less install it for 57 bucks.
I wonder if they would accept sub work?
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Replies
Does the installer speak english, & is here legally?
Are they a licensed contractor with insurance?
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
For 57 bucks what do you expect in an installer? Spitzers paid girlfriend in a toolbelt?
I dunno. You got a jpeg of that for our review? :-)
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
"For 57 bucks what do you expect in an installer? Spitzers paid girlfriend in a toolbelt?"You made me laugh, even DW came over to look whats so funny!!! Good oneMartin
"For 57 bucks what do you expect in an installer? Spitzers paid girlfriend in a toolbelt?"I assume you mean the second one (the one that looked like a tranny), I'd pay the first one more than that if she was just wearing the toolbelt :-p but I think she would ask for a hefty tip.If I remember right, the charge is just for the install, but anything else needed is an extra charge. I would never trust that it would not leak or fail within years. At that price, no matter how fast you are, you cannot make money on the job. Just the price of gas to and from would require more than $57 and the set up of tools, clean up, etc. The only ones that would do it are people who are poorly skilled and cannot make it on their own. If anyone thinks they'll get a good job done for that amount, they deserve what they get because they are stupid.
Welllll, I'd probably pay HD to install my storm doors because I can't install it that fast LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
there's gotta be a ton of fine print and other charges to go with that 57$...
besides... how much of that actually makes it to the installer's pocket....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
HD does verify, insurance, lic. if required, resident status...they even do credit check and criminal background checks.I used to install for them and the screening process was more rigorous than any other place I've worked.
But what about the subs to those subs? Are they covered as well?
Doug
Here they are. They have so many rules and hoops to jump through.Doesn't mean the installers are good, but they are legit.
Here they are. They have so many rules and hoops to jump through.
Brian
The reason I asked that is cause when I moved down to TX and didn't have a clue what I was going to do/who I was going to work for I thought about going to Lowes to pick up some install work, anything that would bring in a check!
I was given the names of a few subs for Lowes and told to talk to them. I saw that there was maybe one or two big contractors with all the work from this particular Lowes and they had a slew of small subs doing a lot of the work for them. Seamed like there was even a third layer of subs on one particular trade.
I found work right away so it never became an issue, didn't know what was expected of me so that's why I asked, wondered if there was some way to circumvent the process if subs were subbing from other subs, more just a curriosity thing!
Doug
I would suspect that in some markets that kind of stuff is going on and I don't know if Lowes or other HD's are aware of that kind of practice and just look the other way.If they are squeezing the installers with low pay...at some point only uninsured and unlicensed subs of subs would be likely to do the work.
That is a "loss leader" promotion. They just want to get bodies into the store and upsell.
They will make money on the door and are giving away the install, hoping to sell other items etc.
They will expect the installer to put 4-6 doors in a day. Some houses will get 2 or three storm doors on the same house.
Pehaps you are right. The door sells for 209 bucks, don't know how much loss one could take to offset an install.
As for multiple installs? Maybe.... but in my many years I can only recall a handfull that had more then one storm door.
"His legal team."
LOL. Thats the funniest thread tonight, keep'm comin
Martin
much less install it for 57 bucks
Might hang one set of mini blinds for that, maybe two if they were right next to each other and sized correctly. Back in the day, when I legally could, that was about the price tag for swapping out light fixtures, plain to dimmer/programmable/X10.
Can't imagine (or can imagine all to well) how many service trips at $60 (and the sub probably only gets $40) to make that nut every week.
I had the Home Depot crew over this morning and I'm very satisfied.
http://www.fugly.com/videos/7119/home-depot-satisfaction.html
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Priceless
“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” —Albert Einstein
My wild and crazy Aunt sent me that.
I won't be jumping at the chance to sign up, but I wonder how many storm doors a guy could install in one day. If he does storm doors day in and day out, I bet you might be able to do ok.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Before I went on my own 4 yrs ago this month I spent about four years with contractor installing for blowes.
after a few months learning I pretty much did all the installs with a helper, while the boss was free to work on kitchens, baths etc. last year there we pulled about 120k(checks from lowes) subtract overhead, I was paid decently, he did pretty well considering he really wasn't involved much
after I left is a different story. He only installed another yr or so I think.
The store managers have approached me several times, but unless our market gets as bad as some here sound installing for them is my last resort.
however I do consider those years my best education in remodeling. I probably instlalle 500 entry doors, and 1000 storms. I got pretty fast and good at the time. callbacks cost me money because I made a percentage bonus and time lost didn't make money.
To answer question I think the most I storms I did in a day maybe ten. when several at same location. Entry doors, maybe 3 or 4, same senario.
Jist of my long story, In my opinion, NOT WORTH IT.
p.s. think they were paying us 80.00 storms, 120 entries, basic installs.
Mike
Wow. 120 for an entry door. I would loose my shirt.
After getting it installed, shimmed, screwed, adjusted, install the new entryset including adjusting the routes to make sure the strikes looked clean, etc.
Then I have to dispose of the door?
I guess that is why I have re-adjusted about 5 of them in the last year that were installed by the big box companies installers.
Some of em just go in and out as quick as they can.
i ordered a wood door for my house, My carpenter friend was here when the door company brought it over, It was real heavy so my friend stayed to help, We both doubled checked the measurements to make sure the opening was right, Then plumb and level, then checked the door , Found out the door was a tiny bit warped but not too bad , Anyway by the time we put it in was maybe 10 minutes not more then 20 im sure, The door guy stood back and said since he had been in biz that was the first time he ever saw anyone do anything except take the door haul it over and nail it in. No wonder guys are "fast" and no wonder i see doors out of whack all the time. The door guy said he was sorry he ever went in biz as it all came back to him , If guys took the time his doors would all work.
I went to a home where the door was not working well and found that it was put in without shims and held into place by 5 16 penny nails. The threshold was sagging because it wasn't setting on anything solid. This was all done by HD and a sub.
You,re right about losing your shirt, and so would I, now.
But then had no kids, no mort. no worries. The money that seemed good then, wouldn't get far now.
Plus I got 1099'd Boss had less overhead than he should have and like I said he was free to do other work, so making a small profit off my work was money in the bank.
We usually scheduled two entry doors in a day, plus usually when cust. buys new door they bought storm too. so maybe 400,+ extras for non-basic. My pay was less than half that , helpers much less.
I ALWAYS SHIMMED It wasn't hard to do better work than the other installers. I prided myself at having far fewer callbacks and more satisfied customers. I was requested by repeat customers on a weekly basis. not bragging, still have a lot to learn, theres not a high bar set there. Fixed jobs like others have mentioned all the time. No shims, no insulation, gaps under sills, srike plates off, you name it.
Man did I hear stories! One installer showed up on his first stormdoor install to customers house. Takes him all day, and meanwhile his girlfriend sat and ate chips on cust. couch watching tv.
After i left the installs didn't do themselves and it just wasn't worth all of the contractors time so he didn't do it much longer.
You coul definitely make a living at it but you have to havr the system down. You get really efficient doing the same things every day, problem is there all different. Behind every jamb is a different story. For me the education was worth it all. Remodelling is sooo much harder than new constr. I don't think I would ever have installed 500 doors in new construction, and most were a challenge.
And then theres the customers, you don't want to know
Since we live in a small area (I guess) I know the door installer for our local Lowe's. He's pretty good and fast. The problem happens when he has the door from h*ll that we all run into once in awhile. He can only spend a certain amount of time at it and get it to work ok and he has to go to get his other work done. And they tell him to do that because they won't pay anymore for a troublesome unit.
Our Lowe's a few years ago ran a loss leader on garage door openers. $20 per unit to install. Every builder was buying them. They were a couple month behind in no time. Some of us (sheepish grin) were selling them and having Lowes do the install, then going back to make sure they were correct. DanT
If things were slow and I was hungry I would put one in for $57.
Actually, theres good money in storm doors, even at $57. Installed HD doors for about a year. The installer is paid $51.
About 60% of the homes here have more than one storm door. Pickup and install door, no hurry, 45 to 60 minutes.
I agree. I just don't want to work for Lowes or install storm doors.
If it aint wood I don't want to do it. Hungry and cold I'll do it.
I couldn't drive 7 miles to my nearest store pick up a door and get home in under 45 minutes... much less install a door too. Add in scheduling multiple customers per day for installs with multiple call backs... Add in billing, taxes, insurance, trash disposal, vehicle costs, no shows, rain days....
Not me. I ain't doing it. Not even for $57 cash.
I would assume that you could get all of their installs and plan to do them at the same time. Stop by the store first thing and pick up 4-10 doors. Plan your route to reduce travel time and fuel expenses (whichever is more important) and go to it.I don't think a customer would not have to be present to do a storm door install.Maybe my assumptions are incorrect, but I would think their production style payment would allow you to do production style work.Also, it doesn't take that much skill to install a storm door. A guy with a F-150 and less than $1k in tools could be set up for every storm door situation out there, I think. A high school kid could probably help on a dozen door installations and then be turned loose.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Anderson storm doors require 2 drill bits, a screw gun and a coping saw. The rest you are dead on.
it takes me one full day to install a storm door, first i meet with the people thats an hour or 2 plus gas, Then i have to order the door as they do not stock them {maybe now but not back then} Then i have to drive to the Lumberyard , pick it up drive to the peoples house while making sure someone's home and i have a key, Then i spend an hour chiseling the shake mould or something wrong and completely out of SQ Then i open the box and find parts missing and drive back to the lumberyard, back to the job, drive back to get paid or send out statements 4 times till i get paid all the while everyone telling me a good carpenter can do one an hour. I suppose if i was in a endless track development with a box van full of storm doors and all the parts i could do one an hour.
If someone did it all day it should be possible to install most standard storm doors in under 30 minutes. If you can somehow upcharge for non-standard situations it should be possible to do OK for $57 a throw.
If you can arrive at a jobsite, install a storm door and drive away in under 30 minutes you deserve an award.
Installing a standard prehung metal storm door on a new house is a matter of driving about twelve screws. No wood butchery, no caulking. You'd likely spend as much time unwrapping the door as installing it.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
Thats kinda what I was thinking. I installed the last door and the hardest part was sorting through the parts. I'm sure I could do subsequent ones in a matter of minutes since the package of junk was familiar. It kind of reminds me of the olden days when I had to assemble all the doorwall frames and install them. At first, it seemed daunting. By the end of that sub, I could whip three doorwalls together and set them all in fifteen minutes. All my moves were choreographed. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I personnaly think a business model set up like a handyman service
could do quite well at $57/door. The problem is they would have to
have quite a few to make it worthwhile. Storm doors are so easy to install. Especially if anything out of normal is upcharge.
Handyman services round here start at $95/ hour with a 3 hour minimum.
That may be, but an arguement could be made for reduced $57 cost, made up by volumn, it could work.
I personally could see it working, with no employees.
The problem is it must be in volumn and where i live I can't see the volumn.
You might be able to make it work if you were using a retired employee part time. There are lots of retirees that might like doing two or three doors per week at $25 or $35 apiece.If you paid out $34 apiece, that would yeild a 40% gross profit margin. You could pay a 10% commission and still make enough for overhead and profit (30 total). I guess it all depends upon your labor pool. Around here, the labor brokers would be lining up illegals and paying them $15 per door! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
See the business modelworks.
I always thought that a person that had an assigned value for work
is an employee not subcontractor. I always wondered if an enterprizing
lawyer might be able to make a class action suite against them and any
company that did this.
It's legal to pay people piecework rates. It's done all the time in all types of business. I doubt there would be any legal way to class action anyone about this but I'm no lawyer and we all know lawyers can make up any number of reasons to sue someone. I don't think I'd be upping my lawsuit insurance because I was worried about giving some part time work to a retired guy that makes more than me in pension benefits LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Piece work per say is not illegal, but setting the amount a subcontractor can bill for is.
So with all this volume do you see any rise in overhead? How long will it take you to bill for those installs? Out of that $57 Uncle Sammie is taking 10 bucks.
You are racing for the basement which isn't the business model I'm looking for, but thank my lucky stars each and every day..... people like you are.
I have no intention of ever looking like a piece worker, rushing my butt off working at a fevered pace in order to chase a customers dollar sacrificing a future job. Matter of fact, todays customer I installed a storm door for 3 months ago, I would venture to say they would have never called me to do the work had I looked like some frantic contractor looking to get in and out because 10 minutes of friendly conversation is the difference between me making and losing money.
In your business model you have set up it doesn't make sence.
I bet that in your local area there is someone who could, whereever
you live.
Remember you can use low skilled labor for something as simple as
storm doors. Your comp. rates would be low, no climbing heights.
The biggest problem is having enough volumn.
You can use low skilled labor in any industry to make a profit if that's the business you are after.
And for just 10 bucks I can have Jose remove that melanoma from your nose.... Next.
I have never seen a pre hung storm door.... Tell me more....
Is the closer pre installed too? And the lock also???
I'm apparently installing the wrong product.
Oh and BTW depot only offers this on Andersen products... I'll wait somewhat patiently for your reply.
Edited 4/6/2008 8:18 pm ET by sledgehammer
Yes, there's such a thing as a prehung storm. We have one. Set it in place, temporarily shim up the bottom, then drive 16 screws through the flange. The closer has to be installed separately, but that's only another 4 screws. The latch and latch plate are preinstalled.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
handle, lock, closer(s) and chain are all extrathat's where the money is at
Barry E-Remodeler
Who said all the doors are going on New houses? You have no idea if home is a 200 year old house. Also who is responsible for making sure what size door is needed is HD sending someone out to measure?Regardless I am not in the storm door install biz. Sure I have installed plenty and I do not remember exactly how long it takes but it is not long so I agree installing a door is not hard or a big job that is just it I can't charge the home owner enough for that to cover my overhead without gouging them. Now ask me to build you a historic door surround and new front entry and included is the install of a new custom wood entry door then I'm your guy. My work is not cheap and after looking at the work I have done and talking to my references my customers do not expect it to be inexpensive. It does not take a carpenter to install a storm door and not even a lot of good carpenters have the hand skills to duplicate a historic door surround including a hand carved broken pediment.
My work is not exactly work HD will ever offer so I do not care how cheap they offer storm door installs it will never effect my biz. so more power to them.I also doubt that many of the pros (and weekend warriors) that actually do work that reflects the name of this forums host site, FINEhomebuilding really care what HD charges to install a storm door. Maybe ask the readers of the discount home improvement site forum if they are worried that HD might undercut their business.
hehheh
nah, I ain't gonna do it.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
I wouldn't drive across town for 57 bucks.
I won't start my truck for 57 bucks ;-)
Me either. Some people want you to do things fer nada. Huttig wanted me to install storm doors for 75 bucks and I told them I charged 150 and they told me thats what they charge their customers and they wanted half. Toooo bad! They finally closed up their local store because contractors stopped buying there. Tooooo bad because they had very good products and service. I bought a lot of stuff from them.
I would not look for my keys to the truck (:-)
sometimes i pimp myself out cheap but it has to be easy
I hear ya on pimping out for easy stuff. I charged 65 bucks for a service call and that gave you an hour and a half of my time. I have did a 15 minute job and I charged the 65 bucks. To measure a counter top for a DIYer I would charge 65 bucks. If they didn't want to pay the airfare then the plane didn't fly.
I cant drive across town for 57 bucks.
I drive a diesel! (laughing and crying at the same time)
I have never figgered out why diesel fuel is more than gasoline. I have heard that a plant in La got trashed from Katrina and thats what caused diesel is so high. But that doesn't seem to ring true to me. So what the HAY do I know?
The reason diesel is expensive is they figured out how to crack it to make gas. Unlike the storm door industry.
I didn't know they cracked diesel fuel into gas.
Breaking long chain carbon atoms is old news.
I know that. I just didn't ever hear of them crackin diesel fuel into gas.
I didn't know they cracked diesel fuel into gas
Well, they really don't, diesel/kerosene is one of the first products you can refine crude into (which is why it is"full" of BTU). You have to keep refining the product to get things like "lower-carbon diesel motor fuel" or further along to get gasoline.
Products refined from crude are often arrayed in a stack by product weight, which can be confused with a product process. Some processes make groups of products, like some kinds of bunker fuels "leave" product to make lubricating oils. Other fuel processess are better for other desired products.
And that's about as much as I know despite having been around PetE types for a couple decades.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Well you know about 100 times more than I do.
I have never figgered out why diesel fuel is more than gasoline
One word: Demand.
Let's say it takes one gallon of gasoline to bring a loaf of bread home from the grocer's. It took a gallon of diesel to deliver that loaf to the store from the regional warehouse. It took another gallon of diesel to take the bread from the baker's to the warehouse. Took another gallon to deliver the flour from the mill to the baker. Another gallon to get the grain from the elevator/coop to the mill. Another gallon to get the grain from the harvester to the elevator. Took a gallon harvesting. Took a gallon sowing, another plowing, too.
If all the units could be made equal, that's about 8:1. Note I left out having to fertilize the field, or delivering seed stock or tillage on the field, and all of the utility costs for each of the steps along the way (since another fuel oil user is electrical generation plants).
Mind you, that's just bread--corn takes more steps. Think about all the diesel used the next time you grab something off the grocery shelf, it can set you back a ways.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
OK... I can see the demand. Its not the cost of refining then? I take it its all about supply and demand.
Its not the cost of refining then? I take it its all about supply and demand
That's what I'm told. More demand in more areas, as pretty constant rate for diesel than all other fuels. Not at all helped by needing diesel to deliver diesel for sale.
It's my understanding that it actually costs the refinery a bit more to make gasoline, since you have to make a number of varieties, but part of that is offest by being able to pipeline product to regional distribution centers.
I'm glad I'm not in refinery operations--that has to be a heck of a juggling act. You have to run theplant up to specific temperatures and pressures, you have to do that before you want the end product, so that it's available to sell. You can get saleable products out of the entire process, but they, too, need complex chemical reactors and processes (but done right, you get to use everything but the "oink").
About like making a run of moulding on a planer. In the middle of that run, you really can't stop and plane on board smooth. Or if you do, you do so knowing that you wll lose some product getting the knife to temp, the feed rate tight and such (and that, only if nobody drops the knife and dings the carbide while it's offline, or you run out of the lumber needed for the run).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yeah, it's known as "functional pricing". Diesel gets about 30% better mileage than gasoline and is priced 25-30% higher. E85, on the other hand, gets worse MPG than gasoline, but the price is lower so that you get very nearly the same miles per dollar regardless. Has very little to do with the production cost.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
I cannot even fill half my van with diesel for fifty seven dollars. Maybe if the jobsite were right next door and the door fit with no trimming required and they supplied the fasteners and provided a dump bin for scrap and gave me a tip for being there on time and so on and so on.
I believe this all points to HD has become the McDonalds of our industry. A very successful business model, for a select niche of customers.
Cheap, fast and not so good.
I am sure the guy HD hires to do the install is paid more then $57.00 it is a HD promotion HD takes the hit.
I do not leave my house for less then $250.00. That is my minimum fee if all you want done is a storm door installed then I am not your guy. I am not going to get into fighting for crumbs.
am sure the guy HD hires to do the install is paid more then $57.00
Previous post in the stack from a former installer stated that the sub was paid $51 of the $57.
HD has a habit of only running "loss leaders" against things they purchace in the thousands, and with a habit of only against inventory they just leveraged down in unit price (or the just-remaindered items that price decrease just created).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Maybe Anderson is paying the rest in a coop deal with HD. There's a big slowdown in sales for many building materials companies, or rumors to that effect. A warehouse full of cheap-o doors does no one any good.