So all my persistence from canvassing my immediate area looking for work last year paid off in a big way…so far. Maybe paid off too well if thats possible.
I did small jobs for several different people and gave them more then I even had in me. I wanted the word to get around about who I am and how I work.
From that I landed the current job I’ve been on for months now and that job is still growing in size. My archy just drew plans up for them to build on two additions as well as turning a garage into a gym…another bathroom to be gutted and redone…a bunch of new picture windows and doors…the entire house resided with Cedar Impressions…new kitchen to be installed and the list goes on…they like to do their projects a project at a time knowing they can afford each one and so far it hasn’t stopped and I like it this way too b/c I don’t have to figure out one giant job…although one giant job has it’s positive side too…knowing the work will last X amount of time…although so far there’s been very little down time.
OK…then I have this other job in the making
These other people I’ve been working with for about half a year now…. helping them get their “whole house” reno in the works are almost ready to rock n roll. They used my archy…the same one that drew the plans for the people I mentioned above. They also know I’m charging them about a grand to figure out the numbers once they’re ready. The money will be applied to the job if they sign on the dotted line. Thing is…their job is HUGE!! I know it’s going to be over a half a million dollar job and take me a good year to complete…off the top of my head. I know the responsibility and risks involved which is real stressful to me but in this market who would turn something like that away? It’s way bigger then anything I’ve done for a customer. I’ve done jobs like that for myself..and bigger, but doing it for yourself is a whole other ballgame!!! No estimates to worry about…no time limitations…no worry about mistakes or changes etc etc etc. The job is so big the people will have to move out. The entire inside just about will be gutted all over the place. Almost seems like it would have been easier to knock the entire house down.
The way I see it…for the huge job things will “have to” change a lot for me.
I’ll need to hire 3-4 full time guys plus a slew of subs…hire an acct and an attorney and all that other fun stuff…and lets not leave out figuring out a job of this magnitide accurately.
Right now nothing is signed on the dotted line and I haven’t even gotten as far as looking at the completed plans…although I’ve seen them completed enough to know what I’ll be in for.
Both people are real good people and LOVE ME…and I don’t want to walk into anything that will eventually leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth…and I also want to sleep well at night.
What would you do?
Replies
Andy,
It sounds like you are going to have to choose which ones ''boy'' you are going to be.
If you can't get the 2nd one to wait till all the jobs are done for the current employer.........or get the current one to semi finish up so you can start on the 2nd, then you have to pick one I guess.
Which brings up the point. Read somewhere recently where you were worrying about spending a couple hundred on a MM because work was so............not sure? Well, don't sound like it to me.
Best of luck. and what I would do don't really matter.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Sounds like a dilemma that a lot of folks would like to have.
Jerrald and Rich are helping you with Excel so you're off and running.
Just be sure you can handle the stress of 3 or 4 employees - then jump in with both feet.
Good luck and happy belated birthday .
Walter
Jerrald and Rich are helping you with Excel so you're off and running.<<
That does help which was THE reason I got into that thread way back when...I knew this was coming up.
Just be sure you can handle the stress of 3 or 4 employees - then jump in with both feet.<<
That's part of the delema I suppose but more so is FINDING the right guys you can count on and work together with in harmony. I think once you have them the stress would be less then even working alone at times. 6 of 1...ya know?
"Life's what happens to you when yer busy making other plans"JL
Ya never know whats gonna stress you out from day to day. Shid happens! Its what you make of it I reckon.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
That's part of the delema I suppose but more so is FINDING the right guys you can count on and work together with in harmony. I think once you have them the stress would be less then even working alone at times. 6 of 1...ya know?"
Finding those employees will kill you. It might take five years to find three decent employees.
You might be better off hiring a qualified sub on a T & M basis and just pass the costs on, with markup of course.
Is this project going to be a fixed bid? Or some form of cost plus?
Edited 3/25/2009 1:38 pm ET by jimAKAblue
andy...... first thing i would do is buy a copy of BuildWorks...
http://www.synapsesoftware.com/editions.html
i would buy the Premier Edition... it will tie all your estimating , cost-tracking.... Proposals , change orders
everything into one package
you can down load a trial copy
i don't think i would be spending my time trying to beecome proficient in learning Excel... since that is only one part of the office procedures you would needMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i don't think i would be spending my time trying to beecome proficient in learning Excel... since that is only one part of the office procedures you would need
Mike...yeh...I figured as much but for the jobs I thought it would work fine although I KNOW on big jobs I'd be all over the yellow legal pads again...lol....just so I could move along. I have to say that worried me though b/c I know how unorganized it is that way...which brought me back to Excel....and the cycle continued...ugh.
I was hoping to find a program that would be easy to learn like you linked me to....b/c I don't have the time to take classes in estimating programs right now.
Actually I don't know how easy it is or not yet but I'll check it out with crossed fingers. I'm afraid to open it up and see what it costs...lol. I know I know...don't say it...lol.
Mucho thanxo brutho
a
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
slow down and THINK a minute andy--before you shoot yourself in the foot---------
remember WHY these 2 love you and think you are the greatest???? isn't it because you are the obsessive compulsive,anal retentive ARTIST that over-performed on that first project? THAT is the level of performance they are expecting, I betcha-- so exactly how are you going to produce that level of masterpiece----with 3-4 guys you haven't even met yet? mike will tell ya------ you only start making money after you put down the tools--- but I can point you at just as many people who point to putting down the tools as when it all started to unravel...........( admitedly that's in roofing--one man with 3 employees on the roof top every day--very efficient and profitable--------but when that guy hangs up the tools--- hires 2 foremen and runs two crews------ things start unraveling, people don't produce the same way etc.)
ME?-- I would never get involved in anything that big---no interest, no abilitybut YOU---- at least slow down enough to realize how very easy it's gonna be to have 2 people p.o'ed at you because you over-committed and couldn't deliver what they expected--based on your prior OUTSTANDING quality. Me?- I am a pansie-and that's why I like doing 3 day job after 3 day job after 3 day job, LOL Best wishes,
stephen
but YOU---- at least slow down enough to realize how very easy it's gonna be to have 2 people p.o'ed at you because you over-committed and couldn't deliver what they expected--based on your prior OUTSTANDING quality.
Stephen..when Mike asked me what the delema was.. .I think it was Mike...thats the delema pretty much in a nut shell...what you wrote above.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
andy------ In my life so far- I can't think of a single project that I regrett passing up---- I can think of a handfull that I regrett ever getting involved in! ME?-- if i was you I would talk to them both(seperately of course) and point out again WHY they love you--why they got involved with you in the first place( it's because of the WAY that you work-------and explain that in order to deliver what they expect you can probably only do them sequentially-not simultaneously remember- you are an artist. People make allowances for artists( You KNOW they are both bragging to all their friends about this wacky,weed smoking Teepee dwelling absolute genius of an artist they have working on their places!!!!) Get the monster job to commit---outline a feasible,logical schedule THEN tell the first guy with the ongoing series of more modest projects that you are going to need to wrap up his latest project by such and such a date because you are committed to 18 months or whatever on the other one---and that you can help him finalize his plans so that you can immediately resume his projects without a hitch after those 18 months
Hey-maybe some of the misc. smaller projects will even mesh in with down time on the bigger one! Very best wishes,
stephen
I agree with you Stephen.
If Andys starts down the "hiring employees" path, his entire world will be turned upside down. Instead of happily doing the things he loves, he'll be forced to micro manage the worker bees because they certainly won't do things that he loves LOL.
If he hires the greatest subs, and limits them to very specific tasks, with fixed fees and specific quality specs...then he'll have a chance at surviving without tearing out all his hair.
You also pointed out one of the most important elements...explaing the schedule. Andy will have to temper those expectations and the entire agreement (i.e. "I work alone and work slow, blah, blah, blah..." should be in writing.
It sounds like a great gig as long as the entire arrangement is kept real. That means, no major changes. I've had employees for thirty years and I shudder at the thought of hiring 3 new ones for a major remodel LOL!
stephen...good stuff..thanx..but let me clear something up. I didn't say I was going to do two jobs at the same time. GOD FORBID!! lol. I want to finish up the one I'm on as much as possible before starting the bigger one.
I know lots of people...when they really want someone they usually are willing to wait for them. I know people that have waited more then 6 months. I also know people get impatient and I don't want to lose the big job because once it's signed...if it gets signed...I'll at least "know" I'm working and employing for X amt of time. It's hard on the job I've been on b/c there hasn't really been enough work all at once to hire anyone on full time.
I've also let both people know I'm not willing to say exactly how long somethings going to take me becauseI don't need that kind of stress. I want to know I have sufficient time to finish tasks properly. I also know if it takes me forever I make no money.. I lose money... so...there's a fine line. They both know this about me and I do think thats one of the things they like so much. I'm not a wham bam builder..I actually care about the work and what they think...a lot!
Also...being as honest as i am with people keeps me in their good graces..usually...
I'd like to be able to explain to my current customer that I have to finish up his main projects so I don't lose the big one I hope to get. He's known about it btw. for quite a while now. I'd be honest with him and tell him that if there's anyway I could come back to do a small project to keep him going I will. All I really want to do is be honest with everyone yet not screw myself either.
So what you've written me in your previous post .....I've been in agreement with you on it all. It's good to see my thoughts verified by good people.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
"I'd be honest with him and tell him that if there's anyway I could come back to do a small project "
Yes..you can go back and do a small project...IN A YEAR!
I've also let both people know I'm not willing to say exactly how long somethings going to take me becauseI don't need that kind of stress>>>>>>>>>>>>
State law might have something to say about that Andy. Remember you are to show in your contract, expected starting and finishing date.
Yes, you are also required to specify what could change that also.
Hey AndySounds like you need to get 2 cars to the same place at the same time, yet YOU want to be the driver of both cars.If you drive just one car all the way to the destination, you then have 2 problems. One, you have to somehow get back to the other car; you'll need a ride from someone. Second, the other car might not be there when you get back. Unless you have some assurances that it will indeed be waiting for you all that time away.Perhaps it is possible for you to "drive both cars" sorta at the same time. You drive one car for a while, and then stop. Then you go back and drive the other car. Keep switching, breaking up the drive into manageable distances. Don't leave a car unlocked or in the middle of the road. Bring along a small scooter or bicycle so you can get back and forth quickly.I hope you get what I mean, with my impromptu "parable".Phil
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
You pointed out that only the bath job is contracted at this point, so the guy who contracts you first for additional work should probably get priority.
So if you are working on customer A's bath, but customer A has not committed to further work, I would feel free to contract with customer B. Customer A would then have to wait untill you were done with B is he decides to commit to further work.
This is assuming that you can price both jobs profitably.
i thought his dilema was that the scope of the jobs was changing
also... i'm pretty sure he has to get them lined up .. no way can he gear up to do both simultaneously.... sure recipe for disaster..
he doesn't have a business model in place to do both
so... he can stay with the people who are doling out the projects... no problem.. no harm, no foul
BUT
if he wants to take on the larger job , he needs a different business model... i don't think the new people will be content to have the job take two years from groundbreaking to move-in
the bigger job says to me he needs a different business model.... starting with estimating , specifications, managing his subs, writing sub contracts, payment schedules, insurance certificates, day -to-day scheduling, supervision, materials ordering
this is not an Excel spreadsheet exercise.... he needs a job management software...
based on my use of the pre-curser to BuildWorks ( i've used GC-Works since '97 ) I know that it automates the whole process.. the trial version is free.. and the product runs $595 for the Premier Version , which is the best one for GC's doing major remodeling and occasional large Custom Homes
so... projecting my own ineptitude on Andy.... i don't see how yu can manage a company doing a million a year if you are still doing the field labor..
subs have the expertise... but their motivation is different than employees..
to do the million dollar home, to the level his customers would expect , will require lots of attention to detail... both with subs or employees
he has to imprint his standards on the job
first guy he should hire is Eric Paulson...
then bring Paul Berendsohn down too... if they don't kill each other , should work out fine
to hire those guys , or their equivelent, he needs contracts-in-hand... which brings us back to estimating, writing specs , defining sub-contracts, materials , allowances...
and he has to carry a labor rate that will allow hiring quality, enough overhead and profit to service the job
which brings me back to the office management thing again
Andy is one guy..... with a smart wife .. but not all wives do well in a construction office... maybe she would... maybe she wouldn't
so let's assume Andy.... office
Andy... field supervision
Andy... sub-contracts
Andy..... materials delivery
Andy.... client meetings
3-4 other guys ..... field labor... labor & carpentry
could sub the frame & shell too
other trades...... sub-contractsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
""Andy is one guy..... with a smart wife .. but not all wives do well in a construction office... maybe she would... maybe she wouldn'tso let's assume Andy.... officeAndy... field supervisionAndy... sub-contractsAndy..... materials deliveryAndy.... client meetings3-4 other guys ..... field labor... labor & carpentrycould sub the frame & shell tooother trades...... sub-contracts"' Exactly!!!!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Mike,
I gotta admidt-- that's an excellent post I also gotta admidt----after I read it-- I think WHY?
as in-WHY would andy want to do that?
it seems to fundementally re-invent andy---to destroy the andy--that got him to this opportunity in the first place! I have never met andy in person--and you have----
but I consider myself blessed to have read the stuff he has written for years---and a personality seems to come through in his writingso- to me-- when I think about that monster job he describes-and you outlined what he needs to do-- I wonder what's in it for andy?-what's the up side-what's the downside?Has andy been waiting his whole life for this project-or one like it----does he eagerly see this as a stepping stone to more projects like it--and is that a good thing? seems like a project of that size- might not be the one to fundementally re-invent yourself on. ya know- I am 46--andy is even older-- I think by at least my age- you are who you are- fundementally.- you might get a little fatter- you might get a little skinnier- you might get a little richer---or a little poorer-- but fundementally--- you know who you are and what your core values are. a bit of self awareness?-- even if I had the carpentry talent( which i don't)- that is not a direction I would want to move in----it's not right for me--and I am aware that personality trait colors my opinion.I also think-it's a project maybe that YOU might be suited for-maybe even have done--might always have been looking for--and that might color your opinion as well. andy has to think about HIS true nature-and what each of those jobs bring down the road--2-3-4 years in the future. to me-- the only upside to that monster job--is possibly money--and that ain't a sure thing---very easy to endure years of stress and heartache-and at the end not much money to show for it, AND the old andy has been effectively killed. I just don't see enough of an upside- to make it worth the effort and the life changes Really- is he gonna change his whole way of working and living-- for someone elses house?Best wishes---soups on and fresh locally baked bauggete
stephen
nice last post Stephen....money right now IS pretty important. It was just last year I thought I was going to lose everything I've worked so hard for all these years. EVERYTHING I ever earned stupidly goes into my own houses I hope to sell... with zero in the bank. I have nothing but this house... and all the money I've ever made from past jobs and past house ventures went back into this one...then the economy took a nose dive as I was approaching 58 years old.
Lots of lucky things I can count my blessings for. I have over 32 years of full time experience doing this work even if my business skills aren't the best...right now..but I'm sober :) and that makes up for a lot....and allows me to proceed foward better then I did before...and I didn't do all that bad drunk....LOL. (although don't ask DW..lol).
Whats another year if it gets me back on track. Just another journey. No way will I let it change who I am.....that ain't possible even if I tried.
If I 'm able to manage things right maybe I can get this monster job done faster and even better then I had in the past. Who knows...stranger things have happened.
Be well
andy
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Mike...I'm only going to do ONE JOB...NOT BOTH. I don't know which thread that got turned around in but I'm clearing that up here and now. Two jobs aren't even in my vocabulary right now. We'll see how it goes but for now...uno!
I briefly looked at that program you linked me to and it looks like something we just might be able to get going if I get this job. Doesn't look terribly expensive either. Thanks...I was really looking for something like that and had a feeling you might be the guy that'd come up with it.....I was right : ) I'll watch the demo video a little later.
I like how you outlined my role and how things would move so it moved in a fluid fashion. It's how I envisioned it actually. Spot on.
Thats THE reason I don't want two jobs. I wanna be there to be sure things are done the way I think they should be done...so that each phse I'm happy to sign off on and "burn my name into"....then proceed to the next task.
I trust no one! I figure if it comes out right it's gravy. I'll probably get ulcers thinking this way but I can't help myself......hence,I need to be on the job most of the time.
I like profit sharing too...eventually. Find the right guys and let everyone make money. I don't wanna project right now. Lets get the job first...lol. I'm just thinking ahead a tad. Anyone thats ever worked for me has stayed with me for years but I wasn't really in any condition back then to grow much. I just know if nothing else I do have gettin' along skills which to me....too many people lack and its a pretty important element in growing.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 3/25/2009 4:52 pm ET by andybuildz
May I chime in??
Reading a few others' post have some GREAT insight. Specifically when asked is this who you are. I like Hazlets approach/insight
The way this economy is going, who knows what a year from now will be. Specially in your neck of the woods. Probably a lot different than Calif.
In the past, what I have found is that the larger jobs reduce a lot of the outside work(bidding, relations, down time). The downside is that almost every time that I have dedicated myself and other workers to large jobs is that I have taken myself off the list for upcoming projects. Out of the loop.
Right now, I have a friend who spent 3 months bidding a large job in Malibu. He never really knew if the job would be a go until he received a depost, the day he started. If he hadn't got job, he was sunk and his next job was just a discussion. Didn't get paid for any of that time. In my opinion, he has already lost any profit on this job and is working for a less than appropriate wage. All he has left is to work massive hours just to make a decent 40hr wage
Many past clients have been willing to wait, but usually not for a year, if . As for working with other GC's, they are even less patient. They always seem to eventually call back later, usually after they have been burned, and then not in my timeframe.
One of the hardest things I've dealt with is dealing with future(possible) work when you are right in the middle of the most important job you have, the current one. Seems to be only so much time in the day/night. So what gives? Your down time, your family, your quality, your sanity? My perspective is that smaller jobs have less long term stress(if that makes any sense)
My best jobs seem to be 1-3 months. These were also my best clients.
This is the reason why I agree with hazlet's perspective. My take on this is that he does mostly the same thing day in, day out. I don't mean redundancy, but more of that he knows where things will be with in a short time frame, consistently. I would add that he also knows where the money is at every given moment, a lot easier to tract and not wondering where the other subs when they say they will be there.
Same as for profitability, kind of easier to make up for a poorly bid 3 day job, than try to figure how your losing it on a long term job. Been there.
When looking at profit, seems that shorter jobs had a higher return than the long term ones, at least in my case.
Recently, I had a talk with a financial guy about this same sort of thing. His take is that your personality dictates your life's decisions. As for me, I'm not willing to put myself out there like I have in the past and I probably should have never extended myself in this way, it wasn't me But, looking back, I would probably do it all over again, even knowing what I know now.
I have never wanted to be a paper contractor, that is not who I am.
How do you define your niche, in the past and in the future? I think that is where the answer should lie/lay
-Brian
good post... just to be clear... i don't disagree with you or hazlett...
i just want andy to be sure he knows the ramification of the larger job..
the smaller jobs he can continue to march as is.
if he goes bigtime..
it's
go big.... or go home..
kinda like no such thing as being a "little bit pregnant "Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Actually, I do agree with your posts. Who says only one person is right, other than my wife, and the kids...
I respect your opinions and they should be taken with validity
My apologizes if you felt I meant otherwise
-Brian
Edited 3/25/2009 7:10 pm by migraine
"I trust no one! I figure if it comes out right it's gravy. I'll probably get ulcers thinking this way but I can't help myself......hence,I need to be on the job most of the time."Wow, that's gotta be a hard life!One of my gut life rules is that I don't live with or work with anyone I can't trust. I can't even imagine turning it around the other way.Trust but verify
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
first guy he should hire is Eric Paulson...
then bring Paul Berendsohn down too... if they don't kill each other , should work out fine
You're the man Mike!
Commute is gonna kill me though!
Man... Lots of good stuff. I agree with Haz that you are who you are.
I agree with Mike about what the job description is on a job of that size.
I agree with Jeff about the ability to bring your known subs with you . ( I might have phrased it as bringing my " Team" to the ball game)
I agree with Jim that the fee is just that , a fee, not your wages. (I set my jobs up when under cost + a fee so that I am paid hourly for my time.) Now I was/ am small time. No employees, got started in the big stuff in the late seventies early eighties, left it and came back. 7 years ago or so doing maybe 30k of business a year gross. Now this year 1.2 mil on one job.
My "Team " members know I am fair and will go to bat for them and they will do the same for me. Everyone wants the "Team" to win. Nothing changes because the job gets big or gets small. If it is to big for one of them they recommend someone they know and who's work they trust to me and also recommend me to the new sub. You don't have to change "Who" you are.. at your core, just expand some areas, tighten up others. You are the artist, now you just have a few more brushes to control at a time, but good brushes put the paint on almost by themselves, they just need to be told where and when...It's a dance routine and you are the choreographer, let the dancers dance... it is what they do best. Yea I work my #### off for months/years on end.. then I take months off and the next job finds me. It all averages out. Kinda like breathing... some times ya pant, some times ya can barely notice the breathe happening.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Well, I'm incredibly flattered even though I know being mentioned in the same context as Eric is preposterous.
One thing I'll mention Andy, that I've seen many times in many businesses is this:
As big as these jobs are, they are finite. It's easy to become so entrenched in them that you have to turn down anything else that comes your way for a period of what, a year... year and a half? Be careful that when you're done with them, you have still have a base of other clients to pick up the ball. Especially with your new pricey business model. Having said all that, as Mike said "go big or go home". Good luck!
Eric, you drive halfway and I'll drive the rest?PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
Well....great thread. Glad I got to start it. Some of the best stuff I've seen in BT in a long time. Clear, heart felt and to the point from a lot of my fav seasoned vets of the crafts.
After thinking more and more about things one thing I know for sure is that for me honesty comes before anything else. A#1.
First and foremost to myself.
So asking myself what would make me happiest within being a realist...
What would make the people around me happiest from the clients to people working for me?
Mike asked me way back earlier in this thread, "whats the dilemma"? and my answer was that I wasn't really sure exactly.
I suppose the biggest thing for me....from my own experiences is....locking myself into such a big job for so long is the worst part for me b/c I know from experience how things can get...for everyone on such huge projects. I already told these people from day one that they're probably going to hate this by the time it's halfway through. Thats just how it is between the dust and debris and changes and having their lives turned upside down...especially with two little kids. Some way to try and sell a job, huh...lol? For "them" to get into something so big .......and I'm still not convinced they know what they're getting themselves into. They actually thought they could all live down the basement while this is going on...yehhhhhh right!
I think what I'm going to do is have a sit down with my current customer who I call The Tattooed Jew. He's tattooed on the entire left side of his body and is about 6'6" with a completely shaven head and has a highly successful bicycle clothing business world wide and couldn't be nicer. We get along famously! They've had Katrina and I over for dinner several times and we've had them over our house as well.
I told him he's the Tattooed Jew and I'm the HinJew...pretty funny.
Anyway...I need to be totally upfront with him now and tell him those other people with the huge job stepped up and want numbers...but that I'd "prefer" to stay working for him if he can commit to signing up a nice sized amount of the work at once...not dribbling in. I need to KNOW I have work for X amount of time so I can pay my bills.
If he in fact can do that I'll figure out how many months his job will take and then be honest with the people with the huge job and tell them...if they want me they have to wait six months...or whatever it'll end up being. I'll explain as I already have that I don't believe in "spiking a job". I may be too honest to a fault but thats how I am.
I've already told them months ago that when I start a job...for anyone...especially people that are good to me...that I'd never leave them hanging.
If they do go for that....or if I can't get the Tattooed Jews job the way I need it....either way....I decieded to tell the people with the huge job that I would like to sign up their job in stages only. Not as obe huge job. Explain that they might get sick of me and visa versa for some reason. Who knows? I think if I were them I'd like that deal. Whats there to lose as long as I finish up each phase/contract to the T? Seems to me it'd actually work better in some way for them more then it might for me .... although...6 of 1...ya know?
I need to go into this feeling good about it and confident. NOT OVERWHELMED!
I don't mind getting big but what I do mind is getting in over my head and building a house of cards that can fall at any moment in who knows what kinda way...rather then a solid house on a solid foundation the way I'm used to doing it...how ever big or small it is. I just need to know I can pay my bills and believe me...with taxes at $20,000 a year alone!!!....UGHHHHHHHH. I really need to sell this dump but thats another story...
So thats what I'm gonna do unless someone has a better idea.
Whatcha think?
PS...and Paul and Eric....I was kinda thinking along the same lines that Mike was with you guys before he even mentioned it but I ain't saying a thing to anyone about anything cause thats really putting the cart b/4 the horse at this point. I have too much to get through just getting to point B right now...ugh.
And Jeff....yeh..if you lived closer I'd have been on the hook with you already. That would have been a pissser.... One can't even begin to imagine...lol.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
also keep in the back of your mind, you're not actually making the big job people "wait" for you if the tat dude signs for even 6 months of work.
There's gonna be plenty the lead time to plan, design and legalize all that work with plenty of lead time for subs and materials. 6 months may go by and you might find yourself looking for filler work till the big job starts!
Sounds like they could spend easily 2 or 3 months with your archy getting things semi-set. Then all the lead times go from there.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Thats whats been going on right now and should be tied up within the next 6-8 weeks. All permits will be secure and they'll be ready to go. The different permits they need have been in the works for months and months now already. The town busted their nuts over tons of stuff. The needed a new bigger cesspool b/c it's now considered 5 bedrooms....then because of that they need to have test holes dug which has become a big expense and hassle in their area . They needed a permit for a tiny retaining wall the previous owners did without one...a permit for the finished basement the previous owners did without one but thats done...all kinda things!!But it should all be tied up within 6-8 weeks according to my archy which was why they wanted to get going soon on numbers from me...ugh.
It's sorta spiraled out of control for all kinda reasons. The basement now needs a temporary wall so they can have the basement dug out accross the entire back to fit an addition across the back because they can't get access to the basement with an outside entry which is now code....ugh...don't ask why...they just do.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Ok
I am going out of town in 30 minutes so I cant keep up with my replies till I get back.
I have been through this as a hired general manager using my bosses subs.
It is doable and it can be fun and very rewarding.
Scheduling and qualified subs are 2 biggest headaches.
Is there a large contractor in your area with a large list of subs that are realiable that you know.As slow as work has gotten you should be able to find or know subs as good as yourself.
The big job has at least a window of finalized planning and then a demolition window where you can hire a crew and partially supervise.
The architect on the big job should be able to do some of your planning and estimating I would start there.
Getting into a fixed fee is great until the changes and upgrades cost more time than the original fee was worth.Plan for this because I have seen it on every large fixed fee.
You will have spurts and lulls on the big job where you could move some of the subs over to the first job site.
Plans for this and set projects that you can fit in are doable.
How close are the jobsites to each other?
Do you have a first choice for an employee that you trust enough that he will call you if left on one jobsite and still make decisions on his own with input from you.(RIGHT HAND MAN)
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Andy you are right.Honesty is not only the best policy.It is the only policy.To yourself and all others concerned.Have fun life is shortRegardsThomas CollierPrimo Construction
Finding those employees will kill you. It might take five years to find three decent employees.
You might be better off hiring a qualified sub on a T & M basis and just pass the costs on, with markup of course.
Is this project going to be a fixed bid? Or some form of cost plus? <<
My intention is always to sub out as much as possible but it's the tieing in and the spit shining that I need the help with/for. On smaller jobs when I've had 1 or 2 guys I'd keep things like the siding and similar to know I have work to keep my employees working if there is down/inbetween time.
I've never worked T&M and don't intend to. It's a package deal...it's a fixed bid.
The way I've always figured it is even if you subbed "everything" out you still need to be there most of the time..in which case I may as well keep portions of it for me to do. I also think when the customer sees me on the job with my own guys as well as subs it lets them know I have more interest in their job then just subbing it all out.
One of the big reasons I've gotten the work I have is because they like my work as well as my ideas so my feeling is that I should keep my hands in it to some degree.
It personalizes the projects.
I could be wrong but I spose'...live and learn...so we shall see.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
It sounds like you are going to have to choose which ones ''boy'' you are going to be.
Exactly!UGH! although I can think of worse scenarios in this economy.
and yeh...the multimaster$$...lol....thing is..if I take the huge job I doubt I'll be handling tools too much...yeh sure...lol.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
what is the dilema ?
is it which job to do ?
the bird in the hand......
or......
is it wether or not to hire people and change your business profile ?
how old are you ?
are you prepared to have real employees... or do you want under-the-table people ?
what's the rate for long-term employees with the skill level you will need
will they all be skilled.... or will you do o-j-t ?
i can't remember how many guys have told me they never made a dime until they hung up their nail bags..... but it was quite a few.... and usually the ones with more succeeful companies
Mike...all the things you addressed I think I answered in my post pretty much.
On a job like the HUGE one...I'll need to hire an attorney and an acct which means nothing will be under the table. I can't afford that on a job that size.
And which one is the bird in the hand? To me it's which ever one signs on the dotted line. The smaller one I'm on now is project to project so I'd never know for sure when it'd end...could be after project 2..or 3...or 10...who knows?
I wish I could have a minority partner but I know no one especially someone I totally would trust so thats out.
I also know I'd need to put my tool belt down pretty much...I know that. I may be dumb but i ain't stoopid...lol. The smaller job that I've been doing...which ain't exactly small my tool belt would stay on more often...unless other small jobs kept rolling in which would be doubtful.
I also know that Katrina will have to play less tennis and pick up my books and work the office with me...a LOT! It's good that I can utilize her and that she's willing. She's a very organized person.
Whats my delima? I'm not sure yet exactly...I suppose taking on that huge job vs seeing how much work the guy I'm with now will have to keep me going and sign up for all at once. I think I'm going to need to have a heart to heart with him soon maybe in a subtle way to start out so I can feel him out.....
I guess once I get rolling on these estimates I'm going to need to speak to one of them more seriously then the other if you know what I mean....to start out with.
Meanwhile "nothing" is actually signed up cept another bathroom and a half where I am now.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I can empathize....5/8ths of the way through my first mil. + job.
And going nuts trying to make it all happen
Lawyer is easy and just 'as need basis".
Bookkeeper is part time, best one familiar with contracting business.
Acct. is again just "as need basis"
My best advice.. Do it on cost + a fixed fee.
Base your fixed fee based on your best and most skilled estimating effort.
Paperwork , paper work , paper work. Use a lap top.
Hire the best subs (including carps) you can find, network with anybody in the bus. till You narrow down the ones you may use then have a meeting with them individually. the point of the meeting for you is to get a feel for what I call their "Flex" factor. How easily do they handle changes in schedule, scope of work etc.
Good Luck.
My best advice.. Do it on cost + a fixed fee.<<
Explain a bit more please?
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
For years this is how I have tried to all my business. Estimate the job costs as accurately as possible, including all overhead costs etc. (including legal, office) EVERYTHING goes into the estimate! Then pick a percentage (dollar amount) you would desire as a profit figure if you contracted the job as a fixed bid.
Make that a fixed fee. you earn that much no matter what the job actually costs. It is your professional FEE.
Job costs what it costs after that, owner pays costs after invoicing , owner can make changes, at will , doesn't affect your already known profit. You can charge the fee as a 50% start/ 50% completion, or a monthly amount. This is NOT Cost Plus A Percentage.
I just use a percent multiplier for myself, the owner has no idea what the percentage is, and my fee doesn't vary if scope of work changes,all though I have at times put a clause in that set a maximum amount for changes before a cost + a % kicks in on the changes. I like the system because I don't have to worry about if I am making my profit. It is there at the start.
Edited 3/25/2009 2:26 pm by dovetail97128
the only problem i had with " cost plus fixed fee " was time of completion...
if your fee is based on 8 months and the job takes 12 months, how do you increase your fee ?
do you add to the fee with every Change Order ?
you do still execute Change Orders , right ?
so you still need an exactly defined Scope of Work......
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
You and I have been through this before.
not worth the time to do it again, especially not in Andy's thread. You do what works for you , I will do what works for me.
They both work and we each are convinced our way works for us. What I do know is that on a job the size Andy is discussing he won't have time to wear the belt much... way too often his days are going to be spent being the GC and solving problems of one kind or another.
He will learn to transmit his "art" to the guys wearing the belts and be there for the occasional "hands on" effort or he will wear himself ragged and end up with more problems than can be dealt with.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I was/am a little confused how you work that. so are you saying you add your profit (fee) in and that never changes no matter if they take something out or add something????
I can understand keeping your profit total the same if you take an item out but not adding more profit if they add more work?? Ain't that how we make money?
What am I not understanding here?
When I figure a small job say.
I add up all my overhead, my materials and my labor costs....for arguments sake... lets say I add on 50% for profit to the entire amount. I never break down for my customers how much each little piece of the job is beyond what I'd been charging for actual material costs or actual labor costs......actually I don't think I've ever had to state what I charge for labor...ever. Some jobs I've charged different labor amounts for one reason or another so I don't like getting locked into a set labor number.
In the past I've explained to them that the more work I do for them the less it actually costs them for several reasons...my tools are already there...I'm only setting up and cleaning up once. I'm figuring the job once etc etc. When they take work away from the job I make less so I have less wiggle room even though I'm still in the same space with my truck in the same driveway.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Andy, I've known lots of custom builders that worked on a cost plus fee basis.
Lets say they look at a set of plans for client and determine that the quality will take the build number to 450k. The builder then offers to build the house for 450k x 15% or $67,500. The fixed fee is 67.5k. The actual costs of the construction are what they are. The builder basically project manages the job and the client pays all the costs.
The fixed fee might be spread out in monthly payments, or lump sum payments.
I've done fixed fee builds with investors. This pays us a fixed amount to build something and the "profit" will be split in some fashion.
Note that the fee only represents the builder's fee. It does not cover any exepense, soft or hard. So, theoretically, you could set up a fixed fee arrangement and still get paid hourly. That would represent two seperate contracts. The first contract would be you, the project manager. The other contract would be you, the sub-contractor to the general manager.
This might be a very good arrangement for you if you want to avoid the employee thing and yet still maintain the most control while getting paid for what you do.
andy
as far as your scheduling problem
on the job to job could you find a stopping point somewhere. Ask to be put on hiatus for about a year. Then come back in.
They might be getting tired of seeing your face. <G>
"They might be getting tired of seeing your face. <G> "LOL, if he's working all that hard, they are seeing more of his #### than his face;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think Mike nailed it.
what would I do? I'd get the current customers focused and set a firm schedule.
I'd also follow Mike's advice almost to a T.
Personally ... I'd want to do it ... "because it's there". That ... and hard work usually pays money. My kids like to eat everyday ... so money's a good thing around here.
Anyways ... I have no real advice ... but ... do want to add something for you, and anyone else reading along.
I'm small time like U Andy. Just me and my lonesome. But, I do work with subs. I have a great list of subs that I trust, and rely heavily on at times.
It's taken years to develope the contacts I have, and I do maintain them. If there's a small plumbing job I could sneak in and do myself, but I haven't seen my plumber Mike in a while ... Mike gets that job. Even if there's no room to mark it up. Same with all the subs. I do my best to feed them work. Some jobs ... the sub's make out much better than I do in the end.
One benefit is I get taken care of when I need a favor. I'm a pain in the a$$ to work with/for ... but my sub's like me. I get much better service than most of their big clients. I make sure my jobs pay decent, and I do my best to make their work day flow as easy as possible.
All that said ... means I could jump on this job tomorrow. Not "start" tomorrow ... but I'd have no problem ramping up to a high end whole house remodel.
Even if U pass in the end ... sounds like a good time to start developing working relationships with subs ... for "the next time". If U do pass ... hopefully there will be a "next time". And with a phone book fulla great contacts ... there's money to be made.
From framing up ... I know who I'd call. And I can trust them all. And they'd all protect me as much as they could. They know I'm small time too. They know I don't have all the right answers right away. Get good subs and they'll lead you thru jobs.
as I tell customers often ... "hell if I know, lets ask the experts"!
I wish I lived closer ... we could lose money together!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"It's taken years to develope the contacts I have, and I do maintain them. If there's a small plumbing job I could sneak in and do myself, but I haven't seen my plumber Mike in a while ... Mike gets that job. Even if there's no room to mark it up"Great point for anyone in this business.
I had plumber on exactly that sort of thing the other day.WHILE he was there, he told me, "Ya know, there's this guy who has this problem....I think you would be able to handle it for him because you ...."And another guy who subs from me came by to rent/borrow my jack hammer and I had my laptop open to the CAD program and he asked, "WOW, do you do that stuff? " and ended up referring me to a guy who needed his napkin drawing turned into buildable plalns.Some think the "good old boy" network is something dirty, but it is competent people sharing information efficiently IMO. It is loyalty in action.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just wanted to says thanks for the email invite tot he thread. It has been a good one. A very good one.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
For some weird reason I got to thinking about Sonny Lykos when thinking about this job ...do you think in part..he kicked at an early-ish age because of the stress of his work?
Letting it go..yet not? I think the guy was torn inside n out...
Far as this job goes...subs I trust I have, but for me this job becomes very different then all the others b/c it's more of a 99% coordiation and numbers thing which is a whole other ballgme..maybe a whole other job then simply walking in a doing a cpl of bathrooms and kitchen and a reside in one house. Funny how that all of a sudden turns into "simply".
This to me seems much much in the realm of a jigsaw puzzle with tiny pieces and big numbers.
Like I said in a cpl a previous posts....I think to lighten the load and stress and risk of it all for me I'm going to suggest to the HO that I break this down into smaller puzzles.
Instead of say four payments (just using 4 payments as an example) I'll break it down into four contracts. First contract would be mainly demo, foundation, shell, windows siding, insul, plumbing and wiring.
Then go onto contract two it they're happy (and I am too cause you never know how a customer is going to be on a job this size).
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Andy,When you get stressed it isn't good for anyone. You, your family or your clients.How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.Think your plan to break this up into smaller chunks is a good one. Make things manageable, start with a good plan of action and you'll be in good shape. No harm getting in over your head. That's how we learn to swim. But it's no fun treading water in the middle of the Atlantic for weeks on end. Perspective and planning make the difference.Sent you a note to your gmail account the other day.Best,Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Sent you a note to your gmail account the other day.
ohhhh...that was you? I'd have known it was if you didn't sign your last name...thats what threw me...thought I was being spammed...lol. OK...got it.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
LOL No worries. Maybe I should have signed it 'Your loving cousin in Nigeria'?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Actually I think you should always have that logo in yer mail. Love it!
Hey...are you really fat? and a Roman?
I had a friend who had a band in the 60's called the Hamilton Face Band cause no one in it's name was Hamilton and they all had faces...lol.
Belive it or not he went on to be a pretty famous muscian so there must be something to all that.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
You know I used to do that. Maybe I should start embedding it again.Surprisingly I'm neither fat, nor Roman. But don't spoil the secret. I'm an Irishman that spends too much time cycling and running.These guys? http://redtelephone66.blogspot.com/2008/04/hamilton-face-band-1969-philips-lp.htmlSeems like an interesting combo.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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HaHa...checking my stories are ya? LOL...yeh..Steve Margoshes and his brother Cokie were my friends...used to go watch the band play in clubs and his basement. I think I was around 16 yo then...Ruthie played drums and I think married Ian Underwood of The Mothers Of Invention. I got to sit in on a lot of Zappa's rehersals as a result as well.
Steve went on to be a real successful guy http://www.stevemargoshes.com/steveMargoshes.html
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
andy....went out to dinnner last nite with two of my former employees
talking about this and that...
told me about an on-line contract estimating / management tool
by Andersen Windows
sounds like the one i paid $600 for
check this out....it's FREE
http://www.superbuild.com/pricing.aspx?partner=andersen&CC=remMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wow...cool...thanks Mike. I'll look through that in the a.m.
Goes real appreciated!!
andy
edit: Read through a bunch of it...pretty cool. Whats the catch? lol..Why do they offer this for free? Am I missing sumpin'? I'm signing up tomorrow and trying it out.
edit edited: Just signed up and wen tthrough the tutorial. Looks fantastic not to mention EZ. I'll start using it with a small bathroom job for the tattooed jew I have to figure out within the next cpl a daze : )
I love it! Mucho thanxo
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 3/28/2009 10:32 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 3/28/2009 11:13 pm ET by andybuildz
here's the catch ... Andersen wants to be your window companyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
There are worse window cos. out there....
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
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according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
After meeting Sonny in person, I did not get th3e impression he was an overly stress ridden guy.But he smoked chain style even after his first cardiac events. If anything can be blamed for his early demise, that was it.He really loved his family and I'm sure that accounted for a lot of stress reduction.I see after reading all the way thru after I first posted, that you have a better handle on this than you first indicated. I too, got the impression at the beginning that you were considering trying to handle both at one time.Managing people's perceptions and expectations of you is a major item.
Last year, as I was turning down some jobs and trying to let people know that my emphasis was on design now, Carole said that the feed back she heard was that folks interpreted things as that I was retiring entirely and just doing design as a hobby. That was a bad one. And meanwhile, the locale new paper editor died so the paper went into limbo leaving me with little way to counteract it other than some phone calls to primary past customers.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did small jobs for several different people and gave them more then I even had in me. I wanted the word to get around about who I am and how I work.
Sounds like you are going from a 1 man operation to a small company over night. My biggest concern is. Do you know how to estimate these jobs properly?
The 3 or 4 new carpenters that you will need to hire. Where will they come from? Good help does not arrive on your door step over night. There is very little chance that out of the first 50 carpenters you hire, even 1 of the carpenters will work as hard as you do. And 0 % of them will give more of themselves than what they have in themselves. Good help takes time.
Do you know what the labor burden is for 3 or 4 new employees is ? It's probably twice what you might imagine it is.
Count on your own field production being cut by at least 50% if not more. You will have a new job description now. Your the Boss. You have more materials to specify and order. You will have sub contractors to hire and coordinate the job time schedule with. Getting good quality, reliable subcontractors at reasonable prices usually develops over years of being in business. Just opening the Yellow Pages does not work.
You will be spending a lot more time with your Accountant. The IRS does not like too wait.
I assume that you already have liability insurance since you are already presently doing business. . You really need to know how much your workman compensation insurance is going to cost you. Once again probably a lot more than you think.
If you under bid a job that you are doing by yourself you only lost your time. If you under bid a job where you have employees and sub contractors, you can loose your *** in a heart beat. Nobody works for free.
What happens when these 2 jobs end. You will have to spend time advertising and estimating new jobs for the future. This will take a lot of your personal time that you won't be spending in the field. You now have 3 or 4 more new families to feed.
Estimating is probably the single most important aspect in running a small construction company. If you get it right you will make some money. If you get it wrong you could be bankrupt, or loose your house in less than a year. A large majority of construction business fail within the first year.
It might not be a bad idea to pay a professional estimator to re-estimate you project to double check your numbers. This is not directed at you personally, however most start up companies will bid a large job at 50% to 100% below the true value of the project.
If you are unsure of the true cost of the project, try to see if your clients would be willing to do the job on a time and material basis.
If you think you are working you Butt off now, talk to me in a year when you finish these projects. That is if you have the energy to reach the key board.
Hope all goes well
Paul
Andy, not a bad dilema, eh? One thing that hasn't been touched on enough, I think, is that Katrina will be helping you. That will be invaluable. Having some one in the business that you can completely trust will take a major load of your shoulders. The folks I know that are in the building biz with their significant others seem to do well in both their work and lives together. You two are special anyhow... be like money in the bank.And, if you ain't, incorporate<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
I agree Holly about Katrina.
I think the route I'll go as I stated somewhere above is to try and break this job into 3-4 seperate contracts. They can evaluate me as I go...sign contract 2 if they're happy and for me I won't be feeling overwhelmed.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
See, that was easy<G>... and you're still going forward.And, think hard about employees. It's nice to have help when you need it, but HAVING to keep people busy can put you in situations that you would otherwise never get into... although your accountant will love the paper work.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."
Paul
I'm going from a one man operation right now because business for me got beyond slow as it had for a lot of people, but for me...besides the economy tanking I had been working on the Goose Hill Rd Project you can see in my web site below for quite a long time and I let my customer base go hoping to continue doing my own houses as I had been doing for while. You can see the house I did before the Goose Hill house in my web site below as well.....it's the Fox Hunt Lane Project.
I'm far from new to this. I've had my own business for over 32 years. I've worked alone and I've had up to four guys working for me full time. Mostly over the years it was me and one other carp...sometimes 2...and like I said..up to 4.
"Mainly" over the years it had just been "working for customers"... with a few small houses of my own I redid and sold and then two big houses that you see in my web site.
I basically was starting over again building up a customer base less then a year ago and with some real persistance and some luck it took off big time...and I also know it can end tomorrow because I haven't anything big signed on the dotted line....yet...and the one huge job I was talking about in post one would probably be the biggest job I ever did for a customer....although the last 2 I did for myself are just as big but doing em' for yourself is a whole other ballgame as I stated earlier.
So all the things you mentioned in your post to me I'm well aware of but thanks for replying and welcome to Breaktime...I see you're pretty new here : )
Be well
andy
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
What would I do?
I've already BTDT so I can say what I did.
And I do have some reservations I did the rightest thing, so it may not help YOU
What you s=describe is similar to the way my business was growing in the early 1990's ( seems so long ago now to be typing a 19 ** for the year)
The slow growth was good. I gradually adjusted, and I had very good people who did good work and who I trusted, and still trust. ( Have a story on that to save for another time)
And most of my jobs fell one after another instead of two big ones at the same time. I happen to like working alone , so I developed a system where I would have the crew on the big job while I went around doing the small jobs with more interaction with customers. I would spend 2-3 hours a day on the larger job, then get out of the way so the crew could work. That would not be possible with lesser skilled people. I also paid them well and bonuses when we concluded a good job with happy customers. They still be loyal to me even tho I have almost no work for them now.
Then about three years back, I started having some illnesses, and felt it was time for some stress reduction. As I was finishing a large one, the MIL of that family had a large job for me that I felt I had to turn down. Asked her about waiting a year and she agreed, but then somebody else was doing the work within a couple months. To give an idea of the financial size of that one, this lady had donated 8 million dollars to a foundation that year.
And while I was in pursuit of smaller jobs under the theory that smaller would be less stressful, I found myself with eight jobs spread out over more geography, making it harder instead of easier for me to keep on top of schedules, money flow, subs, etc. It was probably 3-4 times as much stress.
Came to the point last winter while I was in FL taking care of Mom's problems, that I decided to focus on WHAT I ENJOY about this business.
For me, that means working alone, doing some work on creative problem solving things, and being active in design work.
So I let thee guys know that I was NOT planning any more big jobs and that I would refer directly to them. I have been increasing the amt of design jobs I get and the time spent on that work. And I have been doing smaller repairs. one design job happened to be a bathroom redo. The guy said, now I wonder how I can find a contractor that would be interested in something that small.
I took that job myself as a winter workplace, since there was no tight schedule with them gone the winter to FL. I grew to modifying the whole wing of the house and a 15K job is coming to about 31K.
Meanwhile, my reputation means that some folks still want me to do their work and parts of me - like my gut - rebels at the thought of the stress load.
For instance, I was called to design an addition and procure the permit ( a hard process that I am familiar with in situations too close to the water's edge). IN the course of progress, they let me know they want me to build it too. I'm considering that or offering to run it as a project manager hands off tools to force myself to keep time free for other design work, since that is the way I want to go and enjoy doing.
Sorry for the longish ramble, but I guess the point for me is that I need to control my life rather than letting the business run me. I learned to make decisions focusing on making money while doing the things I enjoy and get satisfaction out of. I just looked at one that was a foundation repair. I will probably be turning it down because there will be no fun and no glory in that one. Getting too old to be crawling in the mud bent over.
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