Hey all,
I’m going to run a situation by the board here just to see what your responses are. I already know what I am going to do and I suspect, but I’m not sure, that most here would do the same.
I met a potential customer yesterday to see about doing a second story addition. During the phone conversation, the owner told me they were looking for someone to do the framing, siding, roofing, and drywall as they wanted to be their own GC and asked if I was o.k. with that. I generally GC the stuff I do, but I have no problem with subbing to someone else either.
Anyway, when I got there, they told me they will buy all the materials also because they got a great connection for a great price. At first I was thinking that I would go ahead and just add more to my labor to cover my markup on materials, but the more I thought about it, the more I see problems in the future. They seemed like nice people and they are friends of an architect that I work with frequently here. But the situation makes me very leary when I can’t control the quality of materials and the delivery schedule. And, the more I think about it, it just rubs me the wrong way — almost like they are trying to tell me how to do my work. I think I will be too busy to fit this job in.
Any thoughts from others on this situation?
Replies
I wouldn't bail yet. You're already on the right track, just tweak your contract a little bit. Make it clear that you offer NO warranty on owner supplied materials. Also make it clear that downtime due to late/forgotten deliveries is BILLABLE. Make those two points crystal clear in you contract (I highlight them, then put a line next to them for initialing). Both of those two items are SOP, just make them aware and you may even end up getting a paid day off! 90% of my work is framing and 90% of the time I supply ZERO materials.... labor only, and while it can get frustrating for the very reasons you mentioned, if you cover your butt and it doesn't effect your wallet it gets a heck of a lot easier to stomach.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Dieselpig makes good points. You dont want to be resposible for their "connection" . Make sure that you cover your own six. Don't fall into that trap of friends of friends. This is buisness , you have a responsibility to your self, and family. These nice people are not going to feed your kids. By maintaining a proffesional attitude and not wavering on quality of materials and work , you do both you and your customer a favor. The hardest thing in this buisness is guiding your customer to make good choices, while maintaining control of the job.
Twenty years ago, this would have been a great job for me.
The more often I got a job like that, the less I liked it. The headaches grow exponentially, while the blame shifts to you for their mistakes, and the profit is taken away.
Theuy do not want a contractor, they want a self employed carpenter. you have to decide whether that description fits your business model and goals.
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If youre not busy then do it with everything possible in writting such as delays will cost them...not responible for anything but the work itself.
If you have other work you can do ....I'd blow them off fast. Sounds like a potential nightmare nice people or not..
Its hard enough for seasoned pro's to line thing up right.
Be well aware
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
politely decline---while maintaining a good relationship with the architect--for future work.
they wanna save money by acting as their own GC------but they will almost certainly bombard you with questions---asking for advise and your opinion on EVERTHING-----all non-billable time
you will in effect---end up actually functioning as the GC---just really in-efficiently-------while they brag to their friends how easy it was for them to GC their own project
you will end up subsidizing their project---with your free---non-billable work.
Stephen
you are beyond right!!!!
Been there....done that
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
Everyone has made excellent points.
Be sure to include in your price the time it will take to check-in material when it arrives, unload the trucks, and come up with materials lists for the coming weeks, etc.
Another way to handle this is to state that THEY cam buy the material, but YOU order it and deal with the various suppliers. You and only you, get to determine how much of each material is required, when it's required and when it's not up to standards.
Explain to them that they will only be saving a small % of the overall cost of the construction and are taking on an inordinate amount of liability/ responsibility.
Lastly: Before you walk away from this, use it as an exercise in how to persuade/ caution clients and protect them from themselves. They may decide to go with you because they feel you are looking out for their best interests. At worst you have gotten through a few kinks in your ways of pursuasion.
F
Good points from everyone, thanks. Work has not been slow so I don't really "need" this job. A couple of years ago I did another second story addition under the same circumstances. The owner had a close connection to a lumber yard and wanted to order his own materials and wanted to let other friends do some of the sub work. I made up the materials lists and scheduled delivery, etc. and he paid. It worked out fine as he was someone who kept out of my way while I was working. These people on the other hand have a sort of "back-seat-driver" feel to them. I foresee having them look over my shoulder and ask a lot of questions. I don't mind questions except when there is the implication that they could do better if they "just had the time". I think I will let this one go. It won't hurt the architect's feelings, he and I have a good history together. As an aside here, these clients are younger and I have noticed that it is the 20-30's year olds who often (but certainly not always) think they could do my job if they wanted to and they just "had the time" and "had the tools". Of course they have neither, but they like to let you know that they really don't "need" me and that they are somehow doing me a favor by letting me work on their house. On the other hand, customers in their 40's and up usually seem to appreciate what I do a little more.Brad
there was just a series of articles in Remodeling Mag on these "new types of customers" ...
I think it was Remodeling.
Me ... I'd take it and bid it high ... like Diesel said.
can't always have customers that'll put ya firmly in the drivers seat from the get-go.
sometimes ya gotta let them know why you're there.
there are waya to have them run the show ... while U run everything at the same time. Like I always say ... I don't care ... I'm flexible ... it all adds up to the same number in the end.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA