What would you say to this install…..?
Bought a “new” LP gas water heater that was returned to Lowes for $175. When I installed it, something was wrong. Overnight, water was warm, not hot. When the burner kicked on and the cut off after water was hot, it would get cooler about half way through a shorten shower…never, ever had one do this. Got Lowes to take it back for the full credit of that purchase price and paid them $250 to install the exact same size new one bought at retail price so vent pipe would fit.
Before installer arrived, I drained the tank for him, and disconnected one pipe to allow a quicker draining. He comes and in a few minutes another Lowes Rep. brings 18″ copper flex pipes and puts a “Lowes’ is here” sign in the front yard. The gas cutoff is the old floor stove faucet with a 1/4″ threaded tip. Installer said the line in the $24.95 install package isn’t the right size or length. I leave home and go buy the new yellow gas line and fittings that cost $32.00. One of the 18″ copper flex pipes wasn’t long enough so installer use two short ones with a nipple to connect them…
The store called a few days later and I told them that it didn’t leak, but it didn’t look like a Professional Job…. got no response by the young girl calling…. This is what I got as far as an installed water heater’s plumbing. What would you say to the store?
Replies
The original heater was probably installed backwards or the dip tube was broken.
The new install isn't pretty, but appears functional. (Can't see enough detail of the flue and gas connection to say with confidence, though.)
That's why you don't hire Lowes. I'm sure some local reputable plumber could've used the money more so than lowes and probably would've had all the supplies that he needed on his truck saving time and money and the job would've been satisfactory or you would've paid him.
Yep, thats how they do it. I got a buddy that installs water heaters and figures if it takes him more than an hour he is mad. Charges $350. Plus the heater of course. And does the same as what you see there. Has every flex and quick connect part known to man on the truck. DanT
Sure it doesn't look pretty.
but if you have nothing else to do with your time than sitting looking at water heater hookups, you should go start a business, or volunteer to help out at school or a boys club.
Only one important question here - when you step in the shower, it s the water hot?
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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Gentlemen, thank you for your inputs....
Piffin,
Your sense of observation does have a unique commentary twist....and the new one does work well.
I paid $250 of good money for Shoddy Workmanship. I do have other things to do, and I've been called back to be interim principal four times when long term emergency surgery, administration turnover, or pregnancy leave happens....so I don't have time to be "sitting looking at water heater hookups".
I posted this to show, see what others had to say, and hopefully educate those that read this forum that big name businesses usually mean you'll not get quality work... I try to do much of my own work because of cost-savings as well as a since of pride, but like with this installation, I was just tired of learning that buying some store returns can be a PITA and also dealing with the constant weird symptoms...
I did also find out that once the sale is made, you are on your own with water heaters at Lowes. All you'll get is a long distance phone number to call the warranty dept. of the water heater maker. Then, they'll tell you they will send the part (started with wanting to send a whole new thermostat), then even though I'm not a licensed LP gas person, they wanted ME to INSTALL it.
You might have once lived in Texas, but you sometimes sound as though you have little empathy for those of us that still deal with that wind and blowing dirt and still live here.... ;>)
Bill
Edited 1/10/2009 8:14 pm ET by BilljustBill
well, if the purpose of the thread was to point out that lowes does junky installs, I failed to notice that point in your first post.I don't know what your wind and blowing dust has to do with my sense of empathy, but I am dealing with too much wind and blowing snow to feel very empathetic right now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
William, Just what EXACTLY is specified in the $250 install contract you purchased from Lowes???Did you read it?? ALL??I would bet next months pay that there are NO requirements that the install be aesthetically pleasing to a demanding eye....It is in, it does not leak and it works.be thankful they didn't burn your house down...It ain't the queen's jewelry box!!! .
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
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according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
Not too familiar with plumbing codes, but somewhere in the NEC it says that electrical work should be done with craftsmanship and in a professional manner. I can't remember the specific code, but its there. That doesn't look professional to me, and I've installed a water heater or two.
would it look more "Professional" if he's put on a decal with is phone number?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Illustrating yet again that the cheapest is not the best value.
Mike
Illustrating yet again that the cheapest is not the best value.
That is debatable concerning the OPs install.
The installation certainly is not very professional looking but it probably works as well as a nice tidy job would.
As long as it works right, I'd bet 99% of average consumers don't give a hoot what it looks like and spending another 100 clams to make it look pretty just aint gonna happen.
Personally, I wouldn't have Lowes do any work for me.
Hire an independent small contractor for this stuff.
Most likely he will do better work for about the same price or less.
And you will be putting money into his hands and his families.
Not Lowes.
Especially in these times we need to be thinking about others.
I don't mean to bust your chops but people are hurting out there.
does the flue pipe have foil tape onthe joint?
thats a new one for me.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
Yes, it's that heavy-duty aluminum tape that has the mfg. date stamped in red on the shiny side.
Actually, we finally got our hail damaged roof replaced last October. The aluminum tape was put on the seam/joints of the double walled vent pipe by the roofing company's quality control inspector after he said he made sure the flue pipe had the 1" space and cleared all wood parts in the attic and as it exits the roof decking... He did the same thing with the LP gas furnace flue.
Bill
Bill
"Yes, it's that heavy-duty aluminum tape that has the mfg. date stamped in red on the shiny side.
Actually, we finally got our hail damaged roof replaced last October. The aluminum tape was put on the seam/joints of the double walled vent pipe by the roofing company's quality control inspector after he said he made sure the flue pipe had the 1" space and cleared all wood parts in the attic and as it exits the roof decking... He did the same thing with the LP gas furnace flue."
Actually, the tape is doing squat, the vent is a negative pressure zone. Besides he missed all the joints on the elbow.
Also, where are the earthquake straps?
Bing
In California, I suspect.
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
Are there 3 screws in each taped joint of the vent?
Is the pop-off extension piped to within 6" of the pan/floor drain?
Is the pop-off pipe CPVC (not the white colored plastic pipe?
Is there a catch pan or floor drain under the HWH?
Flexible connectors are "GREAT"!
.............Iron Helix
Seing as how your text shows you running around getting the Lowe's folks parts, you should learn to DIY, it would have taken you less time and you would still have the $250 + $32 plus tax.
Dont know about you, but gotta earn about $325 to have $250 to spend, so you are out $250 after taxes.
btw, was the 24.95 'install pack' extra or part of the 250? If you bought the new gas hose, I'd have insisted they give me the hose that was part of the 24.95 package ?? Guess I would not have insisted, as they never would have been in the house in the first place <G>
btw2 - if you dont have a truck, at least get a cheap utility trailer, on craigs list all the time for under $200 (after bargaining)
You might just want to hold on to that install. It could probably fetch some big bucks at the Museum Of Modern Art (MOMA) in NYC.
It does almost have an Escher-like quality to it!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
if you follow the cold water supply, it never ends and connects back to itself before it's beginning.....
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
If Pasta and Antipasta meet is it the end of the Universe???
.
.
.
according to statistical analysis, "for some time now, bears apparently have been going to the bathroom in the woods."
I have never seen foil tape used on B vent like that. Screws either. I have installed Metalbestos B vent a couple of times and no tape or screws were used. It's been a few years, maybe that has changed?
I would call the pipe manufacturer and ask them if it's supposed to be there. You might be able to find their product info online and look at the install instructions.
Three screws have been required in each metalbestos joint or any exhaust line since I was installing wood stoves back around 1980 at least.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Last time I installed Metalbestos B vent myself there was 4" and 6" pipe involved, this was around 1998 in CA where I lived. I don't know if it's the same pipe as shown on this site:
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/MetalBestos/Product.aspx?id=70#
but likely it's similar. The pipe has snap-lock couplings for 3" thru 8" sizes and no screws are required, although the install instructions (you have to choose a link at the right, I can't link to it because it's a popup) say that 1/4" screws may be installed if req'd by the AHJ. The AHJ where I was had specialty inspectors, in this case a couple of mechanical inspectors who came out to inspect this type of work. They absolutely forbade screws in the pipe, apparently because too many people used screws long enough to pierce the inner pipe, which obviously ain't good. They insisted on the correct straps and pipe supports so that's what we did.
Like we re-learn every day here, it's different everywhere you go, but I'll stick with my original comment, I've never seen screws or tape on a B vent install. I have installed direct vent piping and the Category III flue for tankless WH in the past few years. Again, no screws, no tape. I have some woodstove chimney sitting here for an install next week and I notice it came with some black screws.
Yeah, probably a local AHJ thing - but at the same time, probably 60% of the ones where it is required still don't get it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
b-vent for gas, no screws. wood vent is a different animal.
Looks like c r a p, but...
It is easy to say "you get what you pay for", but there are many fingers in the pie with these big box install arrangements.
The person doing the install has to move quick if any money (profit) is to be made- moreso if the installer is treated as an independent contractor.
I wouldn't use a gate valve- only a ball valve.
The nipple connecting the two flex joints is galvanized steel, and may cause problems with the copper flex which is thin to start with. If a nipple is needed, a brass one can be had for a few dollars more.
There is no need or reason for any kind of tape on flue joints (especially type B vent), and it may actually be against code.
There is no skill in the install as pictured. Anyone that can screw fittings together can do that. You could have saved yourself $175 and done it on your own.
Sure looks like the flex line going from the nipple to the wall is stainless steel. I hope the "pro installer" didn't use a gas flex line..... Nothing wrong with the stainless line as long as it is approved for potable (drinking) water.
Edit... c r a p is bad?
Edited 1/11/2009 12:13 pm ET by danski0224
First thing I noticed is no seismic strap to prevent tipping over. Is that just another Ca. thing?
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
They aren't required in NE Ohio.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I dont believe that would fly in Michigan.
I'd call the local BI and let him look at it. Lowes did pull a permit right? If not even better.
Thats ridiculous.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.