if you own or have owned your company, how much information about your business would you be comfortable sharing with your employees?
I bring this up because of a kind of interesting thing that happened a few weeks ago…we were working on a minor repair/remodel for someone about to sell their house, my boss is friends with the realtor, etcetera. what started as a bath remodel led to, and led to, and on and on. Anyway, we (my coworker and I) were in the kitchen and noticed on the table a job progress report from my boss to the client (the job was T&M).
well, maybe this was private information that I shouldn’t have looked at but what the hey, I’m part of the company too, and being kind of the curious type I looked at the report, because I had never seen one before. That got me wondering why I had never seen one before, and in fact never really got any in-depth information about our company and how it operates even though I’m coming on 2 years working there. Why haven’t I? I guess because I haven’t asked.
this mirrors other situations…for example if I’m at my boss’s house and up in his office, I try not to stare at all the paperwork, contracts, etc. lying around the tables there.
so what I’m long-windedly trying to say is how much information would you be comfortable giving out to your employees if they asked?
I see two issues here. One is that my boss may not have time to talk about these things…he bids the jobs, runs the jobs, sometimes more than one at a time, has a wife, two little kids, etc…I would feel like I was taking up valuable time if I asked. Two is that my boss simply may not be interested in talking about the workings of the business. So if I asked he would just be uncomfortable with it.
everybody’s different but using yourself as an example how open are you to discussing business with employees? Or how often do you discuss that?
thanks, GO
Replies
I make sure to conduct my business in a way that I have nothing to hide..........then I hide it.........cause it's my business.
I give out all the information necessary to complete the job we are working on, and make the client happy. Above and beyond that, it is none of the employees business. If and when I decide to bring an employee in as a partner, then they will learn all the INSIDE workings of my business. Otherwise, all they need to know is about the job(s) we are working on.
When it is necessary, or beneficial, I get together with the employees about how we are bidding a particluar job, specific details about that particluar job, and anything else I think might make the job go smoother, and more professional. Outside of that, they just don't need to know.
As for papers lying around, well that would be my fault, and I couldn't begrudge anyone that saw it. If it was absolutely "top secret" kind of stuff, then I wouldn't leave it where anybody could see it. If it is out in the open, it is not secret. James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
So what did it say, GO?
Better let us in on it now, right?
Anytime we go out on a job we are given a blue folder. In it are copies of everything pertaining to that job. Sales orders.e-mails pertaining to the job including concerns over the way certain tasks will be completed so as not to interupt the customers business ( we do banks so this is very important) pretty much any paper work that has been generated pertaining to that job. If someone else like another skilled trade or lead man takes over or comes to complete his portion of the job he is either given the blue folder, or shown it so he can see and understand anything that concerns him. It's always with the leadman until the job is signed off on then it is turned back in to the office. He will also add any other correspondence or notes pertaining to that job for anything that comes up in the future. Like billing for change orders etc. Anyways if it's a bid job the bid including the prices are put in there. We are all mature enough to be able to look at it and see what the boss was thinking when he bid it, and we also use it as a guide line to keep costs down in certain areas. The main thing to remember when reading this kind of sensitive material is. This is a business it is run for a profit. Sure you can guesstimate what kind of profit is being made,but don't forget to figure the overhead. Personaly I look at these price sheets as a guide line watch what I'm spending on a job. I like knowing everything.
In my experience, it's the smarter business people who recognize that their employees can think to and add value if they have the relevant information.
It is also my experience that successful small-business people tend to thinkthat they are a lot smarter then they actually are.
Howdy Bob!
It is also my experience that successful small-business people tend to thinkthat they are a lot smarter then they actually are.
If they aren't really so smart, how'd they get successful? <G>
I do tend to agree that employee input into company matters in SOME cases is a good thing, and makes them feel like they are contributing something worthwhile and useful to the company. I just don't discuss a lot of the inside stuff that they don't need to know. I've always kept employees in the loop. Makes them feel a lot better about the company they work for.
Seeing as I don't have any employees at the moment, it really doesn't matter. James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
"you don't know what you don't know until somebody tells you"
Was your subtle comment meant for me?
Miami
miammi sammi,
I have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
I am not the author of that quote. Also, since you have only just now entered this discussion, and no one here has written that particular quote, why would you think that ANYONE here directed it toward you, subtly or otherwise?
Could you possibly be in the wrong discussion?
Just curious...James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
The quote was mine, seemed that perhaps some of my posts seemed to be... I don't know, I guess I thought that as I post in red the red letters were a reference to them. I wanted to know if it refered to my posts. I don't want to come off as a know-it-all. Guess my dear old dad was right; "you would worry a lot less about what people think about you if you realized how infrequently they actually do!" Sorry, not looking for trouble, just feedback.
Miami
The only time I tell my employees about what's going on with the biz. is when we are either behind schedule or over budget.
Dave
A little more upfront-ness might prevent the above conditions....late/behind/over-budget....I can help out my boss to solve problems ONLY if I know they exist or are about to.....if it's a tight bid to get work, maybe we should be aware....cheers,Phil.If it is to be, 'twil be done by me..
This is a post at the end of the discussion, not to anyone in particular, especially you Philter.
God I hate this site now.
Anyways, employees don't need to know financial information. They should be trained to be efficient at material usage, time usage and attempt to do their best quality work at all times.
That's all they need to know. If they are already striving to do their best, they won't be able to do better, no matter what you tell them.
blue
Is your name Bob Loblaw? Or is that just what I heard?
What I meant was...if needed,I could actually work a little faster and probably start earlier and leave later to help an understanding boss(which I am of my own business,it cuts both ways) with a tight /over/late problem that may or may not be our own doing.Capiche? Sheesh, lighten up some.If it is to be, 'twil be done by me..
miammi sammi,
No trouble here.
My reply was to Bob, and it was done jokingly. I posted it in red, and italics, and quotations so that he knew I was referencing HIS previous quote.
In the old place, we just put the quote in italics and quotation marks. Here, we get to play with colors and fonts....
I personally don't see you as coming off as a know it all. I enjoy your's, and everyone else's input.
KEEP 'EM COMING!
James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
james .. quit suckin up to the new guy..
everyone nos yur just tryin to get a duhmmel festival fee outta him..
yur sooooo obviousMike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I don't currently have any employees, just a few subs. (not including my son) I have however been in charge of a few maintenace operations that had staff numbers from 7 to 15 people. I always shared broad information with all and detailed information if asked. I believe then as I do now, its not what information you have its how you use it. Succesful business people know how to use information as well as find it. People who are not business minded people don't. DanT
Mike,
"yur sooooo obvious"
Dang. Now he knows. Ya was sposed to keep quiet until AFTER I got the money... (heh heh) Now how can I split it with ya when there ain't none?
Miammi Sammi is NEW? Heck, I ain't got a clue anymore on who is who. Learn something new everyday. I thought he'd been here at least a little while.
Shows ya what I know...James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
James,
I'm nott saying that someone who is running a successful buisness isn't smart or accomplished.
What I was trying to say was that they often think they know everything and tend to over-estimate their capabilites because of that very success.
I know. I was just jokingly adding that reply. It just kinda fit the mood I guess.
I see SOOO much of that - where people THINK they are so savvy in business matters, but are really stupid as a brick. You'd think they'd learn after awhile that "it ain't working".
Oh well...James DuHamel
J & M Home Maintenance Service
"Southeast Texas"
So Bob, How many employees do you have?
John Svenson, Builder, Remodeler, NE Ohio (Formerly posted as JRS)
On the face of it I tend to agree with the attitude of keeping business details quiet and providing to employees only the information needed for their particular project or portion of a project. Business is the bosses area employees need not know the details
That said divulging details tends to bring employees into greater accord with the boss and bolsters the dynamics of the group by indirectly saying that employees are to be trusted. A job overview of the different parts that different crews are to do and how they are to meet up to make a larger project along with how this construction is meant to fit in with overall company goals can go a long way to instilling a sense of teamwork. Reinforcing this can make micromanaging unnecessary as the crews tend to get less caught up in details and are better aware of the larger picture.
This sense of teamwork toward a common goal makes jobs go faster. Problems sometimes disappear before the boss is even aware of them as members correct them on individual initiative. This frees up valuable time for the owner and changes his job from nit picking tyrant to more of a strategic planner and chief facilitator and coach. The hiring, firing and final quality control still fall to him but the job becomes much less negative.
Still I see many contractors who insist on maintaining tight control of every detail and who manage by cussing and castigating the help. Some seem to be doing OK as companies but I have noticed that they have high employee turn over rates and always seem to be rushed. The moral of their crews is generally low unless they are bribed or new and even then it seldom stays that way for long.
I have tried to run crews both ways and have had both flavors of bosses. The mellower teamwork approach, with an option for firmer measures, always seems to work better.
I thought I would throw this in here.
My wifes boss has a profit sharing plan. If they make money on an order they filled, a pretty girl walks back there and hands out a check for that jobs bonus.
[stay with me here ] If there isnt a bonus they never see this pretty girl. They notice and remember when they saw her last. They also know that a certain job didnt make money because of imformative weeky meetings. All the people that work there are set up on incentive pay that is above their normal pay. Information is shared on a weekly basis to make every one part of a team.
BOTTOM LINE .............very succesfull company. I only wish I would have thought of this years ago.
You're right. "Micro-managing" and castigating staff in public (1) tells them the the boss thinks they are all morons and (2) humilates them. Usually the only ones that do stay are those who "are" morons and those with low self esteem. These employees are also the type who never make the boss aware of a problem when it's small because they know the result, so the boss ends up creating his own hell(s) once the problem(s) gets to the point of exploding.
It's a pathetic situation for everyone involved and the boss is the most pathetic. His type is the know-it-all and should be condemmed to have to listen to himself in an echo chamber for eternity.
"So Bob, How many employees do you have?"
Right now I work alone as a home inspector. I've had up to 4 employees of my own companies in the past, I've supervised up to about 10 as part of large corporations.
Bob, what agency do I need to check with for home inspection training for Arkansas?
I tried a couple of adds and they said theirs wasnt Arkansas cerified the best I can remember.
Thanks , Tim
Bob,
Surely you realized that your smug remark about business owners, and your comments on how much to tell employees would bring a few comments. So, you have had several businesses, and worked for larger corporations. That's a pretty varied background. Tell us how much of your financial information you shared with your employees, and how that contributed to the success(?) of your businesses.
That you have now chosen to go into a business that requires no employees speaks volumes to me.
John Svenson, Builder, Remodeler, NE Ohio (Formerly posted as JRS)
John,
You and Pete seem a bit sensitive here. You're responses also speak volumes about yourselves.
With the first large corporation (bank) I was with, nobody shared any financial info about the bank itself. We got the annual statement once a year.
In the second large bank I was with, we had meetings monthly where we went over the monthly general figures. I'd meet with my manger, then I'd pass on the info to my people. At first I thought it was strange, but it started to make some sense to me in a profesional setting.
When I went back to contracting, and started to hire some people, I'd brief them monthly on how the business was going. "Here's where we're making money, here's where we need to improve. Anyone have any ideas? Here's where the money coming in goes." I found that last one to be particularly helpful; employees tend to see gross profit and their paychecks, and figure the balance is going into the owner's pocket. I believe that with most workers, it helps to know that there is a lot of overhead.
I also had a few employees who made valuable suggestions to help make the business more successful. They were rewarded for those suggestions, and I made sure everyone saw that they were rewarded.
Did I give theme enough information so they could figure out what I was making? No. Did I give them enough ionformation so the could understand the costs and overhead involved and understand that just because I wasn't on the job site didn't mean I was sitting on the deck of the cabin cruiser working on my tan.
What you see as my envy is actually just a common observation among the various professions which serve small buisnes owners. Many of them think that becuase they have put together a successful buisness, they have all of the answers, even in areas where the various professionals have spent years of training and have years of experience.
Ask any accountant, lawyer, financial planner etc. who serves small businesses and you'll hear pretty much the same observation.
BTW, the reason I work alone now is primarily that when I moved to the area I'm in now, there was a building boom and I didn't know any subs and figured it would be tough to find good ones. Also, I had been doing home inspections on the side and found that I preferred that to contracting.
The volumes you're reading about me from my messages are perhaps a demonstration of the very point that I'm making about successful business people thinking they know more than they do.
BTW, I've started a couple of businesses that were abject failures. In each case, I made the very mistake I've noted in others: I believed I knew more than my advisors: "Bob, This is a really bad time to start this type of businees in this market place." "Ah, it's such a great product and there is such a strong need, I can overcome the current economic climate!" (Now there was a stupid idea!)I have also been fairly successful at a few ventures, as well.
Edited 4/10/2002 7:17:29 AM ET by Bob Walker
Edited 4/10/2002 7:47:16 AM ET by Bob Walker
bob .. i don't know why pete & ron read you that wya.. ho , hum ..
anyways.. i've always run my business as a sort of open book.. and i was willing to share the business philosophy with those employees who wre interested.. most were not.... the ones who were i'd bring them in and start them estimating and pricing jobs..
doing a little design work... the more people to share my load with , the better.. so ..
GO,... what your boss is willing to share is probably a lot.. if he shared the info with the customer ( witness the T&M docment you saw ) tehn he'd probably be willing to share with you ..IF... IF he thought you could be trusted with the info...
i never shared that stuff unless i thought the employee wanted to know the nuts and bolts.. how to price a job... why some made money and some didn't.. and the effect of a winner on the bottom line at the end of the year, balanced against the losers...
i had a partner before i went on my own.. but he held all of the cards.. never made a profit .. and i never saw the books... we didn't stay "partners" long...Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In our retail business we don't share much information with seasonal or new employees. If they stay for a while we begin to share financial information that they have an impact on, because then they seem to take more initiative on the job. I usually talk in percentages, something like: "we're up 12% over this month last year - the changes we made seem to be working" or "COS is up 7% in that dept. - we might need to adjust our prices". Then they see that policies and decisions aren't random and designed to make them miserable. We can tie seasonal bonuses (December is huge for us) to numbers too, and they realize they have an impact on their own paycheck. I've never discussed my draw with an employee.
"A completed home is a listed home."
I would be impressed if one of my employees wanted to know more about the business. What I told them would depend on what they asked and what I felt their reasons for asking were, but I would be inclined to give them as much information as possible if it would help them understand our business. It doesn't happen often. Most of our employees are happy to do their job and go home without any worries.That's why they are employees.
Generally, I would be happy to tell an employee whatever he or she wanted to know. But it kind of depends. I'm not answering "behind the scene" questions from someone who's only been working for me a few days. But a competent, long time employee...I'll tell 'em whatever they want to know.
Rich Beckman
Pete,
you're right, the discussion's moved on from my first post, not that it shouldn't. I feel like I should clarify.
the document I saw was a T&M progress report, I guess it's a bill. I don't think my original question was, 'how much should I know', but, 'from your own experience being the employer, how comfortable are you with sharing business information with your employees, and/or how often do you discuss that.'
the money thing is a no brainer. I already know what I make and what our shop rates are. of course my boss makes a profit.
what I was interested in was the report itself. I'm curious about the business itself. I had never seen a report before, and I got to asking myself why; I've worked for our company for almost two years, and have realized I know next to nothing about the actual operation of the business of our specific company. Two years isn't a long time but it isn't two months either.
I guess I'm a little naive b/c I actually was surprised by what yourself and others, Blue, etc have said pretty absolutely, that an employee doesn't need to know business details.
you made the point here pretty good:
"What possible need could they have for information pertinent to the business workings or financial prosper? Furthermore, what possible benefit could there be in disclosing this information to the employees?"
in the short term I see zero benefit.
but I'm going out on a limb and saying in the long term I see mega benefits, if an employer's goal is to cultivate good, business-minded employees.
what is the businessman's/employer's goal?
first, let's say to do a good job running a profitable business.
say everything derives from that: providing for family, community, and employees.
now not every employee is an employee for life, I mean, it's more like hardly any employee is an employee for life, so the question is, is it in the employer's best interest to put good businesspeople out into the world. I think it is.
best, GO
Edited 4/10/2002 2:20:36 AM ET by GO
Edited 4/10/2002 2:22:07 AM ET by GO
I once worked for a guy who informed myself and the other workers of a LOT of the goings on with regard to his business. This would have been OK if it wasnt for the fact that he wasnt doing so well. then every week we would be wondering if this week was the last. I liked the work but the environment got ridiculous so i left.
I like to know a little, but not everything. how someone runs their business is up to them. as an employee all I want to know is 'will I get paid' , 'will I have work next week/month etc'.
I dont feel it is appropriate to give too much info to customers over and above what is releavant to their job. A guy I work for now used to let customers/friends put stuff on his account for their own round home stuff. One commented on how good his discount was. That little 'service' ended right there.
Wood Hoon