Hi all:I haven’t been on in a while,just working alot,any way.
I hired a guy to do a tearoff(shingles) on my old house(1850s)When he came for the estimate he said the decking was good (1″thick) random width boards,some tight ,some not so tight.Price seems fair $7,500,and he comes recomened.I give him the job and after he starts stripping the roof .he calls me and says he dosn’t’t like the way the boards look and want’s to lay down 1/2″ cdx I say go ahead.
Now the question.He wants $125.00 a sheet to buy and install (42 sheets)adding over $5,200 to the job,ouch! I balk he comes down to $90.00 a sheet in 2 seconds. I still tell him that’s too high.He wants a decision,I tell him we need to talk.
Here are the specs /about 15 square
4 layers to strip
about a 6 pitch
gable roof ,no valley’s
1 single flue chimney to flash
I know guys here don’t usually like to talk prices sometimes I guess I just want to know what a fair price for(buying with a fair mark up)and laying down 1/2″ decking on a simple gable roof should go for.
Thanks for your help
Greg
Lead,Follow,or Get the Hell Out of the Way!
Replies
do it yourself then let us know how much you woulda wanted to be paid.
that sounds fair.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Good morning Jeff,Hows it going?
I did'nt mean to tick you off so early in the morning ( lol)
I know roofing is back breaking work.I've done tearoff's before.Especially this roof 4 layers.
I know that you can't always tell what's under an old roof like this one and that unforeseen things will pop up.I didn't argue at all about adding the sheathing. I guess I just have sticker shock.When some one calls you on the phone and tells you the $7,500 job just went up $5,200 to$12,700 you start to ask for advise and that's all I' doing here.This guy does good work and he is almost now done with the job.
I don't want to start a flame war.I just needed to know if $90 was fair.And just for the record, I got advise here when I had another contractor doing work on my home that Saved my arse I was looking for advise on how to show my gratitude to him.I believe on that one I thru the guy an extra $600 all together.
Thanks Greg
The hard part about roof estimating is that you never really know what the decking will look like until after you tear off the old shingles. 4 layers...wow!, I feel sorry for the guy already.
Normally, in my roof bids, I include an addendum that states if the roof needs more sheathing replacement than what I intially figured, then I will charge the client cost of the materials, plus 10%-15% mark-up, plus an hourly labor cost for installation.
Now, depending where you live, 1/2 inch plywood costs roughly $14 -$17 a sheet. A case of 8d stick framing (gun) nails cost approx $27 . I charge an hourly labor rate of between $25 to $30 per man hour. So there you have it.
42 sheets @ 17 .........................................$714.00
case of nails...............................................$ 27.00
couple of circular saw blades @ $7 ea.......$ 14.00
subtotal..............$755
add mark-up(15%)............$113.00
combined total materials...............................$868.00
Labor....
It is hard for me to say how long ....but conservatively, a crew of 3 or 4 guys could easily lay down 42 sheets overtop the existing roof sheathing and nail it all off in 4 to 6 hours...give or take. So, just to be safe, say it takes this guy's crew 1 entire, 8 hour day....and say the going labor rate in his area is higher than mine...say $40 per man hour...ok? So...8 hours times 4 men equals 32 man hours @ $40 an hour amounts to $1,280.00
Total the sums of $868 plus $1,280...equals $2,148.00
$2,148 divided by 42 sheets of plywood equal a cost per sheet installed at $51.00
As you can see, a quick, yet fairly accurate way of figuring what a fair price to pay for this type of work is to take the total material costs and times it by 3. In my humble opinion, the average cost for doing this type of work should total between not less than 2-1/4 times the materials nor more than 3 times the materials...more than 3 is gouging.
If the contractor is fguring on removing all existing sheathing and then reinstalling 1/2 inch ply, there of course is more labor involved, but I seriously doubt that is his intentions.
Davo
"more than 3 is gouging"
screw you!
my legs are tired ... my back hurts .... and that ladder is high!
plus ... it's windy today.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Wow, labor is cheap in your area.Some places, the labor payout is higher than your Billable. Add Burden and the Billable can be 2-3 times yours.SamT
"4 layers...wow!, I feel sorry for the guy already."
I agree with you on the price. I wouldn't figure any more than that on a job this size. It sounds like he didn't bid enough on the job in the first place and is trying to make it up. Maybe there is room to compromise.
Unless you want to get up there and do it yourself. Or can you live with a blue tarp until you get someone to replace him.
<< It sounds like he didn't bid enough on the job in the first place and is trying to make it up. >>
I agree, if it's only costing him $60+ after labor, then he's gouging you. Sounds to me like he's taking advantage of the situation because he's already got the roof stripped. Probably figures he's got a lot more leverage when you've got no roof and he's holding the golden key to finishing the job.
Not sayin he's a bad guy, just that those 4 layers of old roofing probably looked a lot more manageable from the ground, and it's hard to stay honest when all you are thinking about all day is the money you are losing on a job.
Maybe ask if you can save some money by buying the materials yourself, and then ask for a price. That will at least give you an idea what he's charging above the cost of materials. Then get into a discussion about how it seems a bit steep.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What am I on? I’m on my bike, busting my ass 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
Hi Justin:Thanks for the reply.He doesn't seem like a bad guy.Maybe he is trying to make up on the sheathing for the rest of the job.We both should have discussed better about any unforeseen circumstances. I'm supposed to talk with him tonight.
Greg
Thanks Davo that's what I was looking for.I actually was figuring a mark up of 25% on materials just to be fair.This was a two story house.
They stripped and sheathed it in about 10 hrs They shingled it Sunday ,another 10 hr day.they have maybe 1 bundle,and the caps to lay on left.
Thanks Greg
As you can see, a quick, yet fairly accurate way of figuring what a fair price to pay for this type of work is to take the total material costs and times it by 3. In my humble opinion, the average cost for doing this type of work should total between not less than 2-1/4 times the materials nor more than 3 times the materials...more than 3 is gouging.
That has to be some of the worst advice I've seen around here. Material cost has no bearing on labor cost. How do you know 4 guys can lay those 42 sheets in one day.
How steep is the roof, how high off the ground is it, how cut up is it?
A rancher with a 4/12 sure, a Victorian 30 feet up, doubt it...
How are you charging between 27 & 35 per hour for your guys and making any money? either you pay them peanuts or you are not making any money.
We charge $50 an hour for labor and a 40% markup on material. $90 a sheet is the standard quote around our area. DanT
Dan, Can you explain yourself a bit more? I can't see the $90.00 a sheet. $15.00 for a 1/2 ply sheet + 40 % is $21.00 $50.00 hr. , reasonable and about what it is here. Maybe 15 minutes to lay a sheet max? 4 sheets an hour ? $84 + 50 = $134 $134 an hour/ 4 = $33.5 a sheet."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Sorry for not being clear.
Someone said they marked up material 15% and charged $25 and hour.
I said I charged 40% mark up and $50 an hour to give a comparrison.
I should have said seperately that I don't do roofs, these are comparitive number that I think might be more realistic for a company.
The roofer that I use charge $90 a sheet for repair sheathing. Bigger pitch, more money, tear up old, more money, do the whole roof he would charge a little less. Clear? DanT
Thanks Dan: I guess it depends on the area of the counrty and state where you live for pricing.
Thanks Greg
greg-------------I wouldn't consider this to be a fair price IMHO
this is something that should have been discussed prior to the first shingle being torn off---or at least in the fine print somewhere in the contract.
Generally we charge $2.50/lineal foot for 1x replacement and about $32/sheet for plywood replacement
If your guy can charge $125/sheet and GET it------while still disclosing this cost prior to the start of work---more power to him!
but that doesn't seem to be what he did with you----------and so---- i would consider it unfair.
stephen
Stephen:I agree it should have been covered less headache down the road.I don't like things being left up in the air.It tends to leave a bad taste for both parties.
Thanks for the reply
Greg
In my area it is typically around 90-100 per sheet for a sheathing repair or replacement. It comes down if it's an entire roof to around 50.
Without actually seeing the roof it's to hard to tell. A lot will depend on how hard or easy it is to access the roof and how hard it will be to work on.
That said the price they quoted you seems a little high but not totally un-believable. The roofer has you in a tough spot, whether he's using that to his advantage or not I can't say. Don't let him push you into anything you're not comfortable with, what part of the country are you in"?
Edited 8/20/2007 9:37 am ET by CAGIV
Hey Cag: I'm in CT.There was easy access to the roof,it was a simple gable,6 pitch,1 chimney to flash,2 storys but an old house. He has almost finished the job.total on site hrs about 25,not including his homework off the job.
As far as far me being in a tough spot its the other way around.I signed a contract for $7,500 (no notes on decking)and gave him $3,000 to start.I owe the balance.
They stripped and sheathed in one 10 hr day 5 guys.
Thanks Greg
I was under the impression he hadn't installed the sheathing yet. So he went ahead and did it before you accepted the price or did he do it before telling you the price.
Either way, it sound's like you're getting screwed if they stripped AND sheathed the roof in 10 hours with 5 guys. I'd have him come over and justify his price to you.
I wasn't at the job site.I was at the firehouse working a double shift.I got a call on the phone telling me about the old decking.He never said anything about the price of the new decking until I asked him near the end of our conversation.
I guess he was just going to hand me a bill for the extra $5200 (LoL)
I believe he had one side of the gable stripped(I was able to come by in the engine I was working on) and that's what I saw when I got there.
The phone conversation goes like this:I say what are you charging me for the new decking,he says I get $125 a sheet.I say that's too much,he then says $90 I say that's still sounds high.He dosent want to stop working,he has a full crew there.He says we will have to work it out. I tell him we will talk more about the price.
A couple of added notes,I have almost 40 sheets of 1/2" cdx sitting in my garage that I asked him if he wanted me to bring over just in case he needed it,before the job started he says no.
When I went to check on the job yesterday,I noticed a big hole in my kitchen ceiling (popcorn),where one of his guys foot went thru it( LoL again)I wasn't even mad,I told him that I would take care of it.
I'am in no way BASHING this guy,his work looks good.Just trying to get a handle on the per sheet cost.
Thanks Greg
How's he gonna get those 42 sheets up on that 2 story roof? If I'm not mistaken, those roof conveyors for shingles don't do the plywood very well, besides being a different supplier.
It'd probably take me 15 minutes to get one sheet up there. If I was lucky.
Hi;I agree it takes time to lug them up the ladder but with a crew of five and a flat roof in the back of the house to work off of ????
Greg
I charge $3.25/sq ft to resheath. ($104/sheet of plywood).
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"he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho
seeyou,
Can you clarify that price a bit? Does it include the strip off of the old roofing? Does it include strip off of old sheathing? Or is it flat price on just new sheathing with all other costs paid (or bid ) separatly?"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Or is it flat price on just new sheathing with all other costs paid (or bid ) separatly?
Yup.
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"he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho
If it were me I would have gone materials plus 500.00-1000.00 depending on the job and the size of the crew. That would still leaveroom enough room to make a few bucks from the add on. It only takes a day to sheet a roof, and that's with one foot nailed to the rafters.
Dave