Replies

1. 
   painterguy | Aug 30, 2002 01:21am | #1

   I think the "rule" you are remembering is not to use latex over and oil paint.

   Although this is not necessaryly true.  It really depends on how well you prep the oil paint and the primer you use before the latex goes on.. 

   Over oil base paint you can use an oil primer with latex finish or a good acrylic latex primer such as PPG Sealgrip will work also.

   If your ceiling is a semi-gloss latex just lightly sand (wash if dirty) and use a good flat acrylic latex paint.  You should have no proiblems.  If it is oil you should lightly sand and then prime with either of the above mentioned primers.

   How do yo decide if you have oil or latex? Get a small contaner of "goof off" at almost any home or paint store or just some rubbing alcohol.  Put the goof off or alcahol on a rag and rub it on the paint in question.  Latex paint will become sticky...if it is oil base nothing will happen.

   Been in the painting business over 20 years.

1. 
   junkhound | Aug 30, 2002 03:41am | #2

   "you can use an oil primer with latex finish "

   My 82 YO pop would surley agree with that.  Wherever he first got the idea when latex first came out in the '50s, he's never painted over old finishes except as described, except he insists on 2 coats of latex over the oil primer (from a WWII stash of surplus lead based primer yet!). Has averaged over 25 years per painting on his own house in central IL weather over the last 60 years - a few years ago my brother and I got to paint same house pop was born in (mom wouldn't let pop on a ladder in his early 80's, her dad died falling off a ladder painting a house), we questioned the second latex coat but gave in to experience.

   mea buder un mea gut two baad et speling prolly cus of du wite led?

1. 
   rez | Aug 30, 2002 03:57am | #3

   I tink yo speled lead wong. Lead wis gud pient.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.

2. 
   BillHartmann | Aug 30, 2002 04:10am | #4

   The only paint rule that I know is that spilled paint will get only get on the most expensive and hard to clean item.

1. 
   jocobe | Aug 30, 2002 02:45pm | #6

   Hey Bill....What you are referring to is Gumpherson's law...

   "The number of times a jellied piece of bread falls jelly side down is in direct proportion to the cost of the carpeting"

1. 
   BossHog | Aug 30, 2002 03:32pm | #7

   "The number of times a jellied piece of bread falls jelly side down is in direct proportion to the cost of the carpeting"

   But what if you strap the bread to the back of a cat, and throw it up in the air? Will the cat land on it's feet, or the bread land jelly side down?

   BTW - I thought the painting rule was no oil over latex, not the other way around.

   Room service? Send up a larger room.

1. 
   jocobe | Aug 30, 2002 03:57pm | #8

   A cat would land on it's feet......of course.....anything other then that would be catastrophic!

1. 
   rez | Aug 30, 2002 08:58pm | #9

   Man, that's the real cat's meow.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.

2. 
   JohnSprung | Aug 30, 2002 10:01pm | #10

   The cat will slide the strap around 180 degrees while in the air.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   Flathead | Sep 13, 2002 04:34am | #16

   What if you just jellied the backside of the cat and forget the bread all together?

   dl

2. 
   JohnSprung | Sep 13, 2002 08:54pm | #17

   Then the rule about bread doesn't apply.  The cat will land on his feet, and immediately roll over on whatever is the most expensive and uncleanable surface available.  ;-)

   -- J.S.

3. 
   DCassII | Sep 14, 2002 05:11am | #18

   I don't know about jelly, but when I was a kid my bro and I figured out that if we fed the cat peanut butter, he loved it.

   Problem was, he didn't like the way it felt in his mouth, and he'd just about put his paws in his mouth to try to get it out.

   Then he'd want more peanut butter.

3. 
   JamesDuHamel | Aug 30, 2002 02:13pm | #5

   The "rule" you are looking for is pretty simple.

   If a paint surface is glossy (such as high gloss or semi-gloss) then it must be deglossed before it is painted over. Since flat paint does not have this gloss, most painters will paint right over it without a problem. Some prefer to prime the surface anyway.

   There are three ways to degloss a surface before you paint.

   1. Sanding - messy, tiresome, and labor intensive. Latex paints are hard to sand properly, and tend to gum up. However, with the right touch, and patience, it can can bedone.

   2. Chemical deglossers - smelly, messy, and time consuming. They do work well though.

   3. Special primers - this is the easiest, and least labor intensive, although the most expensive. There are special primers available that are made specifically for priming glossy surfaces. They chemically bond themselves to the surface of the exisitng paint, and allow for a new topcoat of either oil or acrylic based paints.

   James DuHamel

   "The Power Zone"   http://www.thepowerzone.org

   Texas Workforce Youth Center

   Silsbee, Texas

1. 
   chiefclancy | Sep 02, 2002 07:31pm | #11

   James-

   do you know of any specific brands of primer that can be used for this purpose? I got funny looks when I asked about it at the local paint shop. I have to re-paint a three story staircase in the back of this apartment building and don't feel like sanding the whole thing.

   thanks

1. 
   JamesDuHamel | Sep 03, 2002 03:30am | #12

   Hey Andy,

   Zinsser brand Bullseye 1-2-3 is one that comes to mind. I know Zinsser makes some other primers that do the same thing, but Bullseye 1-2-3 is the easiest and best smelling to work with.

   The Bussleye 1-2-3 is a water based primer, and is easy to work with, as well as easy to clean up. This is a water based, NOT latex primer. There is a BIG difference in the two. This primer works well with any top coat whetehr it be oil or acrylic based. James DuHamel

   "The Power Zone"   http://www.thepowerzone.org

1. 
   chiefclancy | Sep 04, 2002 04:39am | #13

   James- thanks, I'll check that out.

4. 
   fcraven | Sep 13, 2002 03:41am | #14

   I know this is kind of late in the game, but the "rule" is:

   Don't put OIL over LATEX, but Latex over oil is OK.

   You usually hear this "rule" for exterior siding. If it's painted to oil, you can paint over it with latex. Once a house is painted with latex (or Acrylic) they say not to paint it with oil.

   That being said there are more exceptions then rules, I will prime new sheetrock with an Acrylic primer, and top coat it with an Alkyd paint (yes an Alkyd wall paint).

   A better rule, is to paint on a sound substrate. Sound acrylic paint can be sanded, primed, and coated with alkyd.

   As far as glossy surfaceses, a scuff sand is all you need (and all surfaces should be clean).

   Best of luck,

   Fred

   Sometimes painter

1. 
   DCassII | Sep 13, 2002 04:34am | #15

   The roofer was telling a story not too long ago about his painter buddy.

   Seems the painter was working in this high-dollar home, oriental rugs all over the place, etc. etc.  So he's painting up a storm, working like a champ, and somehow he kicks over the paint can.

   Right then the cat walks by.

   Painter grabs the cat, rolls him in the paint, and swears really loud.

   GD cat!  Look what you did!

   He got away with it, too.