Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 12, 2000 05:15pm | #1

   *
   b If you were outside 24 hrs/day,365 dys/yr,you wouldn't look too good either!

   Such is the tag-line on my business card for Deck Maintenance Svcs.
   I like the application of clear wood preservatives,specifically Olympic Waterguard. It is relatively inexpensive,easy to apply and non-film forming,meaning there wiil be no cracking and peeling at a future date-it is a penetrating treatment,nor will it fade as a pigmented stain does. As always,proper surface preparation is the key-mildew abatement/powerwashing/sanding.
   Etching the surface w/ oaxalic acid is a more intensive/costly protocol...
   Bottom line,the word is MAINTENANCE! Horizontal surfaces are prone to the vagaries of nature like none other.Most decks suffer damage more from UV exposure that sets the stage for deterioration from moisture,than from moisture itself.(Deadwood fibers provide a great home for mold/mildew spores.)
   Depending upon your exposure,expect to apply a clear sealer at least every other year,with full preparation every five years or so.
   Best of luck!

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 12, 2000 05:22pm | #2

   *WeatherBos.... We sprayed it on soaking wet..(fresh cut), cedar poles...and after 3 years....flawless.They use it mainly on Log homes....Nowadays it is all I use. ADRespect to the previous message....but in my experience...olympic stains take forever to dry...(months)...so it makes prestaining futile for us.It has the smell of ammonia, and they say it is water based...as well as being biodegradable...it doesn't harm plants...just hose them down when you are finished.Lhttp://www.weatherbos.com (I will warn you...they do charge a premium price...but it doesn't bother me one bit)

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 04:46am | #3

   *LRZ is correct about the importance of maintenance and the effects of UV radiation.I have a friend/collegue with impeccable academic qualifications in wood deterioration who considers most commercial formulations as fru-fru juice. I support his feelings and have the basic belief that they are next to worthless. If I had to make a recommendation I would advocate something akin to the old FPL natural finish (the recipe probably available from the usda forest service Forest Products Lab web site) that consists of boiled linseed oil, mineral spirits, paraffin wax, zinc stearate and some wood preservative. From my understanding, it is the wax that provides water repellancy. Now if you add pigment to this, you get some level of UV protection. Even this will still require annual or semi-annual application.If the solution does not contain a preservative, any oil (as a complex organic molecule) will simply be another food source for molds, mildew and fungi. And straight oils generally make a very poor barrier to moisture absorption in wood.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 03:32pm | #4

   *b An addendum/reply to the preceding: Olympic waterguard is not a stain-it is a linseed oil-based clear penetrant.I avoid pigmented stain as often as possible(too much fade). As for waxes-have you ever seen a deck w/ an accumulation of say,Thomson's waterseal(wax is the main water-repellent)? Wax collects dirt/reacts w/UV and turns BLACK-I can't tell you how many clients I've had that needed only removal of this wax when they thought it was time to replace the decking-don't do it!! Whatever the brand you choose,the parameters of the material you want will be the same:> Non-film forming penetrant Non-pigmented if possible No wax content Best,LRZ

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 03:38pm | #5

   *Just so there is some balance here. We use a lot of CWF-UV by Flood that gives some tremendous results on cedar and redwood, this is also linseed based, but with UV inhibiters and gives great aesthetics to wood and gets b ooh's and aaaaah's every time. I have found this to be the best absorbed product into wood to date.Save that Thompson stuff for the cement driveway and dispose of it properly.

2. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 12:26am | #6

   *This is a tough subject....A cedar deck I built was coated by the homeowner with Flood and it was too sticky and was not drying...Last year he cleaned deck and put on Thompsons and is now very happy...He was very upset with the tacky coating Flood gave...I have no idea if the weather at the time of application was a factor....near the stream,ajBy the by...I use many Flood additives when I paint...penetral, emulsibond, etc.

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 05:55am | #7

   *Gary, Like everyone else I have my favourite exterior finish for clear coating wood. The manufacturer is Behrs and it is their oil based exterior sealer. It comes with a light tint stain or clear (I think the clear is no. 92). It also is linseed oil based with some UV protection and fairly benign to plants. Most of these products sound similar. I would suggest making up some samples with the products and setting them in the sun for awhile, hose them down abit and see which works well for you. They probably will all work the same (similar products that is). And if you don't like how one holds up then next refinish try another. The secret to having a lasting deck that looks new is maintanence. Starting with a good wood, cedar, redwood, teak, they will all last a good while even if you do not use any finish on them but they will look aged, become dryed-out at varoius times of the year, etc. A good penetrating finish will help keep the deck looking newer. You may want to do two or three coats the first year, then another two coats a few years later, but you will find the frequency you need to refresh will lengthen as time and oil build up in the wood. Another consideration not mentioned is deck construction. If you have good air circulation around your decking and framing, the moisture problem will be less as the wood can shrink and swell as it drys out with fewer problems. Here in Montana our biggest problem is sun and dryness, that is why I prefer a good penetrating oil-based sealer. It is more to keep the wood from drying out. Your climate and site conditions may favour more waterproofing type sealer. Walk good. david

4. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 07:01am | #8

   *Here's the best protection on the market for cedar or redwood. It is a clear finish, but leaves the wood a shade or so darker. It is called TWP.Now I can say that this is the best, longest lasting protective clear coating on the market, because it has been proven. This stuff lasts for 5 years under HEAVY use, extreme climate conditions, and high uv exposure.The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department did a 5 year study of wood preservative and sealant products, and this product was still going strong 5 years later. They coated everything in their State Parks, their duck boxes, guard shacks, etc... with all different kinds of products. TWP outlasted them all. (TWP stands for Total Wood Protection)Satterfield Log Homes (in Texas) uses this product exclusively on their cedar log homes because it has outperformed all the rest.If you want more info, I can get manufacture name, phone number, suppliers, etc... and post it. Aside from that, there are several good products out on the market. A lot of the reasons to choose a product have to do with YOUR climate, use of the material being sealed, and your preferences.Happy hunting...James DuHamel

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 11:45pm | #9

   *Well, since it is a front porch, wouldn't a roof with a nice overhang give pretty good protection, and look good to boot? I think front porches should be in the building code. Houses without them look too sterile to my eye. How in the world do you enjoy the front of house or front yard without a front porch? Where else can you put porch rockers, and drink lemonade, watching neighbors go by?

6. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 02:30am | #10

   *Consumer Reports is in the process of conducting a 5 year test on various deck coatings. They have been publishing their results, to date, each June - I think. Can't remember if they addressed cedar.

7. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 02:32am | #11

   *Now there's a source not worth believing.

8. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 02:44am | #12

   *Yeah - I don't think CR is the best source either. Pretty much the way I approach a question like this is to collect info from different places and then form an opinion. I look at CR as just another info source - not necessarily authoritative.If it makes you feel any better, I think they pretty much slammed the Thompsons stuff.

9. 
   Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 02:58am | #13

   *growing up in the fifties in a Navy town, i thot all decks and porches were battleship grey...it sure is what all the decks in newport and jamestown were painted... why do u suppose that was?scratch some trim or decking around here and ther'll be a coat of grey someplace...so Gary, my answer to yur query would be a couple coats of good deck enamel....who said we're supposed to have a finish anyway?

10. 
    Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 07:25pm | #14

    *I wish I could remember the name of the finish being used by the maintenance workers at Walt Disney World. There is many tens of thousands of sq feet of exterior decking along the Boardwalk Inn resort (it is a "boardwalk" along a lagoon). There are thousands of people walking on this every day, kids spilling ice cream & soft drinks, etc. It bakes every day in the 90 degree/ 90% RH Florida climate in the summer. It gets a thunderstorm dumped on it every other day.Yes, it has minor cracking in the boards but still looks great. It's about 4 years old now.They were applying the finish one year I was there. The dark color isn't what I'd choose for my deck, but it may be available in other colors. The finish smelled terrible for several days, and the odor was still noticeable after a week.When time comes to refinish my deck, I wil attempt to get the name of the finish from Disney, but I dunno...they are very beauracratic to get info from, in general. Next time I'm there, I'll pay more attention if they're refinishing.

11. 
    Guest_ | Apr 17, 2000 08:08pm | #15

    *Mike - that sounds like it would be a-peeling, someday ...

12. 
    Guest_ | Apr 17, 2000 08:10pm | #16

    *That sounds like one of those very durable, but very toxic boat finishes.

2. 
   hotsawdust | Apr 17, 2000 08:55pm | #17

   *
   Why exactly?

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 02:31am | #18

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   Durable and toxic. Somehow that makes sense for use at Disney.

   Rich Beckman

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 02:30pm | #19

   *Are you implying that they are some kind of Mickey Mouse operation?

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 06:22pm | #20

   *Yeah James could you post details on TWP?Thanks

4. 
   Skip_Serrell | Apr 18, 2000 06:39pm | #21

   *
   Dido on FredB. Thanks James

1. 
   Ray_O'Rourke | Apr 21, 2000 10:18pm | #22

   *Anyone care to comment on this plan for redoing a 3 year old straight grain doug fir porch floor (the builder put down a UV resistant poly finish that looked great...for about a month): 1) sand and screen the poly off. 2) Two coats Minwax oil based clear stain and sealer. 3) Let it dry in and finish with at least one coat of boiled linseed oil. Haven't started this yet and I'm wondering if I'm making more out of the project than it needs. Ray

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 21, 2000 11:24pm | #23

   *
   Here you go gentlemen,

   Amteco brand TWP Wood Sealer

   manufactured by: Gemini Coatings, Inc.

   El Reno, Oklahoma

   1-800-262-5710

   This product is used exclusively by Satterfield Log Homes in Longview, Texas. They have tested every known sealer on their log homes, and this product outperformed every other product on the market. This product was also field tested by Texas Parks and
   Wildlife Department, in conjunction with Texas A & M University. It proved superior over every other major brand product on the market for use on Cedar, Log Homes (both cedar and pine), and bare wood sealing. It is not recommended for use on CCA treated lumber.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 22, 2000 01:19am | #24

   *They're all on Pluto. Come to think of it, most of their employees seem to be going to the dogs...Just a thought...James DuHamel

6. 
   Darrell_Hambley | Apr 22, 2000 01:42am | #25

   *
   Walt Disney Joke:
   Mickey goes to a marriage consuler, "I want to break up with Miney, She's just not the way she used to be." Consuler: "What? Is she crazy or something?" Mickey: "No, she's just F'ing Goofy."

1. 
   steve_gregg | Apr 22, 2000 03:26am | #26

   *CR likes benjamin moore stains (and so do I) for deck applications for cedar and pressure treated....---on a budget, i've found the oil based olimpic products to hold their color and their water repelency for a good long time at cheap prices

7. 
   Guest_ | Apr 22, 2000 08:00pm | #27

   *
   Thanks. I'm going to see if they have any info on how it would perform in a less hospitable climate.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 25, 2000 06:09pm | #28

   *We used Behr for a while but it does not fight mildew very well hee on Oregon . You have to add a mildewside. Pennafin was another one tha was pushed for a while. It did not mildew but did not lasta s long

8. 
   Rob_Trask | Apr 25, 2000 10:51pm | #29

   *
   Try Flecto Deck Seal. It's not cheap, but it has worked better than any other I've tried. It's oil base, with urethane.

9. 
   Guest_ | Apr 26, 2000 03:16am | #30

   *
   Been researching this myself. I think James is right if you go to the university sites he mentions I think you will agree. Cedar is very different from treated wood. Even new wood, the prep so it will take the finish is just as important as the finish. CR didn't start testing TWP until late 1998 in their long term test. They point out in their 1999 report that it is showing very promising results. Go to this site and check out all of the pages. I just powerwashed off a very expensive and "the best" from my less than 1 year old 900 sq. ft. cedar deck. In 10 months had turned white and lots of mildew. I'll let you know next spring if it is as good as the university experts say.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 26, 2000 03:18am | #32

   *Sorry. Guess it would help to have the link.http://www.cedar-guild.com/

10. 
    Gary_Larson | Apr 26, 2000 03:18am | #31

    *
    My front porch has cedar decking and is exposed to
    the afternoon sun and rain. What type of finish gives
    the best protection against the elements?